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For Sale/Looking For => Parts for Sale/Wanted => Topic started by: mmitocky on December 30, 2009, 08:21:07 pm

Title: WTB: One good IDI precup / prechamber insert
Post by: mmitocky on December 30, 2009, 08:21:07 pm
I am looking to buy ONE good precup (prechamber insert) from either a 1.6L VW IDI engine, or an Audi 5000 2.0L engine.  It will be used for an Audi 5000 TD.  I cracked one of them upon installation  >:( and so this one piece is holding back my entire engine build.  I am looking to buy one that is not damaged or cracked (I know from experience that it is easy to damage them while removing if not done carefully!).  If you are able to sell me one of these guys, email me at [email protected] with a price and (possibly) a picture.  Thanks!!
Title: Re: WTB: One good IDI precup / prechamber insert
Post by: Rabbit on Roids on December 31, 2009, 12:39:24 pm
did you get all the old one out of the head?
Title: Re: WTB: One good IDI precup / prechamber insert
Post by: mmitocky on December 31, 2009, 03:52:32 pm
Yes, I had them all out at one point.  Originally one of the cups had fallen out, destroying a piston, cylinder wall, and the head area above the cylinder.  I welded the damaged area on the cylinder head, and also the precup bores (in order to get a more positive "interference" fit when installing the precups, I welded the bores and then machined them to my own dimensions).  Everything on the head was machined, and I installed 4 of the 5 precups just fine....lookin for one more to finish the job!
Title: Re: WTB: One good IDI precup / prechamber insert
Post by: rabbid79 on December 31, 2009, 07:50:48 pm
There have been a couple of new ones for sale on thesamba.com for quite a while now.  He calls them "decumbustion" chambers or something like that.  I'm not sure if they are exactly the ones you need though.  Glad to see someone else keeping a 5-cyl TD running.
Title: Re: WTB: One good IDI precup / prechamber insert
Post by: mmitocky on January 01, 2010, 09:15:38 am
Thanks for the samba.com recommendation, I e-mailed the guy to see what engine those are from.  I did a quick search with the part number on the bag in his picture, and it looks like they are from a 1.5L engine...which has totally different dimensions for the precups.  Someone has to have one of these just laying around...right? ;)
Title: Re: WTB: One good IDI precup / prechamber insert
Post by: trev on January 01, 2010, 10:32:18 am
I've got a single IDI precup floating around on the floor of my car. I think. Stock off a '91 1.6TD.

May have one or two more around.

Do you know what marking you need?

I'll check this afternoon, when I brave the cold to get out of  the house for a while.

 Cheers
  Trev
Title: Re: WTB: One good IDI precup / prechamber insert
Post by: mmitocky on January 01, 2010, 01:07:27 pm
Trev, the only marking on it is "B.H.G."....but here are some photos with the important dimensions:

(http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q279/sixteenvalvergti/IMG_0106.jpg)
(http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q279/sixteenvalvergti/IMG_0107.jpg)
(http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q279/sixteenvalvergti/IMG_0109.jpg)
(http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q279/sixteenvalvergti/IMG_0105.jpg)
Title: Re: WTB: One good IDI precup / prechamber insert
Post by: trev on January 01, 2010, 03:38:14 pm
I grabbed mine out of the car.

Mine has a Triangle imprinted on the face.

The face on yours is wider than mine. Mine measures 30mm across, yours looks like 31.5mm. Not so good!

Was worth a try....

Cheers
 Trev
Title: Re: WTB: One good IDI precup / prechamber insert
Post by: rabbid79 on January 01, 2010, 06:33:49 pm
Quote
Mine has a Triangle imprinted on the face.
That's something I've noticed about the swirl chamber inserts on my 2.0 TD Audi 5000 head.  They don't have the triangle like the 1.6 TDs.  I'm not sure the 2.0 and 1.6 are 100% compatible in regards to the swirl chambers.
Title: Re: WTB: One good IDI precup / prechamber insert
Post by: mmitocky on January 01, 2010, 07:37:23 pm
Well I may very well be out of luck then.  Any ideas on what material they are made out of?  I have considered manually machining just one insert to get this thing back on the road
Title: Re: WTB: One good IDI precup / prechamber insert
Post by: rabbitman on January 01, 2010, 11:22:52 pm
I have one I can part with, no idea on the dimensions though and it's at the shop right now ::)

It's out of a 1.6NA......I did have to beat on it pretty hard to get it out so it might be junk, the little lip isn't shaped right anymore :(.

EDIT: I found where I'd already posted the dimensions: http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=20672.30 (http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=20672.30)

If you think it's close I can measure better and post pics next week.
Title: Re: WTB: One good IDI precup / prechamber insert
Post by: fatmobile on January 02, 2010, 12:15:20 am
I've popped a few out and I haven't tried it yet but would put tape over the outlet hole and fill it with salt before using a punch to drive it out.
 That would spread the force out, instead of focusing on the thin area near the outlet hole.
 I don't think I have any bent-up 1.6 heads to pull a pre-chamber for you.
Title: Re: WTB: One good IDI precup / prechamber insert
Post by: mmitocky on January 02, 2010, 08:02:53 am
Rabbitman:  Those dimensions sound about right, if it isnt cracked at all I would be interested in it.
Fatmobile:  Good idea on the salt...I wouldnt have thought of that!

I am considering taking this thing to a recycling place that has a metal analyzer, or anyone that I can find for that matter, to see what material it is made of.  My best guess would be some type of austenitic steel, a stainless steel.  I might even try to weld the cracked one if I can figure out the alloy.  Thanks for your replies so far! 
Title: Re: WTB: One good IDI precup / prechamber insert
Post by: theman53 on January 02, 2010, 09:21:50 am
Pretty sure someone said inconel
Title: Re: WTB: One good IDI precup / prechamber insert
Post by: Rabbit on Roids on January 03, 2010, 08:24:46 am
Pretty sure someone said inconel

they and the exhaust valves are inconel.
Title: Re: WTB: One good IDI precup / prechamber insert
Post by: Vincent Waldon on January 03, 2010, 10:16:19 am
The prechamber cups are as well.
Title: Re: WTB: One good IDI precup / prechamber insert
Post by: Rabbit on Roids on January 03, 2010, 10:45:18 am
Pretty sure someone said inconel

they and the exhaust valves are inconel.

The prechamber cups are as well.

they being prechambers... did sound kinda vague after i read it again. but another thing, im not sure if the turbo engines had sodium filled, or inconel valves. i know that 1.5's have inconel tho. i kinda figured you might know the answer to this one Vince..
Title: Re: WTB: One good IDI precup / prechamber insert
Post by: rabbid79 on January 03, 2010, 11:08:28 am
The original sales literature for the Audi 2.0 TD says they have sodium filled valves.
Title: Re: WTB: One good IDI precup / prechamber insert
Post by: rabbitman on January 03, 2010, 11:24:09 am
The original sales literature for the Audi 2.0 TD says they have sodium filled valves.

I'm pretty sure the 1.6td has sodium valves too.
Title: Re: WTB: One good IDI precup / prechamber insert
Post by: trev on January 03, 2010, 02:39:54 pm
Gawd! Inconel! Miserable crap to machine. Sharp tools, coolant, and slow slow slow, but with a steady heavy cut.

I think I'd be talking to the dealer or ordering online before ever considering making one. Aside from that, inconel barstock isn't free either.

Cheaper to buy than make, for sure.

Cheers
 Trev
Title: Re: WTB: One good IDI precup / prechamber insert
Post by: Vincent Waldon on January 03, 2010, 02:45:54 pm
Gawd! Inconel! Miserable crap to machine. Sharp tools, coolant, and slow slow slow, but with a steady heavy cut.

Yuppers, as many machine shops have discovered when they try to surface mill a VW diesel head using the normal cutters.   ;)

Someone posted a link for new prechambers at one point...perhaps here, perhaps on www.vwdieselparts.com (http://www.vwdieselparts.com)... they are rare but someone found a supplier.
Title: Re: WTB: One good IDI precup / prechamber insert
Post by: Rabbit on Roids on January 04, 2010, 07:44:05 am
well, next time i go mess with my audi, ill try and get it to hold coolant, but i dont think its going to. if it doesnt, wanna buy a car? i know the head is still good, it wasnt full of water, only the block was. it has a leak, so it never stays topped off. pretty much a complete car too. i actually drove it for a while. it has way different power than a 1.6 does.
Title: Re: WTB: One good IDI precup / prechamber insert
Post by: mmitocky on January 04, 2010, 04:43:52 pm
Oh jeese....the money for another car should be put towards school, unfortunately.  I am well beyond justifying the work/money in the 5000 I have now, so to just get this thing on the road will be amazing.  Is the rest of the car in good shape?  Your not exactly close, either....  ;D
Title: Re: WTB: One good IDI precup / prechamber insert
Post by: Rabbit on Roids on January 05, 2010, 07:55:12 am
thats what i just looked at. distance is a factor. i paid 300 bucks for it. drove it home, only burned 5 quarts of oil on the trip. the car is in pretty rough shape. trans slips, engine has low compression, theres some rust, the interior has some rips, some electrical stuff doesnt work.

see, the thing is, if someone takes the whole car, i would let it go for 250 bucks, if they want parts, like the head, i would probably be charging 500 just for the un cracked head. i may just hang onto it anyway, im not positive if i broke the block or not. cause these things really are rare. more rare than turbo diesel VW's of any model. someone told me they produced about 400 every year in 82 and 83.
Title: Re: WTB: One good IDI precup / prechamber insert
Post by: mmitocky on January 07, 2010, 04:44:02 pm
Well I have found a company in Italy that can supply me with the precombustion chambers for roughly $25 a piece.  I have to buy 4 minimum, however, and so naturally since I only need one I have to ask if anyone else on here has a need for some new precombustion chambers!  According to their online catalog, the chambers for the 2.0L 5-cyl diesel are the same as those for the 1.6L VW diesel....so If anyone needs (or you have come across someone's post who needs) some new cups, feel free to let me know.  I will be ordering these probably in the early next week.
Title: Re: WTB: One good IDI precup / prechamber insert
Post by: trev on January 07, 2010, 05:35:36 pm
Well, that bears the question then, why did the precup from my 1.6 TD, not match the dimensions of the one you have?

 ???

Cheers
 Trev
Title: Re: WTB: One good IDI precup / prechamber insert
Post by: rabbitman on January 07, 2010, 06:40:17 pm
Well I have found a company in Italy that can supply me with the precombustion chambers for roughly $25 a piece.  I have to buy 4 minimum, however, and so naturally since I only need one I have to ask if anyone else on here has a need for some new precombustion chambers!  According to their online catalog, the chambers for the 2.0L 5-cyl diesel are the same as those for the 1.6L VW diesel....so If anyone needs (or you have come across someone's post who needs) some new cups, feel free to let me know.  I will be ordering these probably in the early next week.

Good deal, after looking at mine better I don't think you'd want it anyways, the thin little lip is bent in the shape of the brass drift I was using ::)
Title: Re: WTB: One good IDI precup / prechamber insert
Post by: mmitocky on January 07, 2010, 10:43:56 pm
Trev, I dont know....from my researches I see that the cups for the 1.5L are smaller than the ones I am looking for, so are you sure the ones you have are for a 1.6L head?  Here is a link to this companies online catalog, with dimensions and stuff:  http://www.eurocartogliani.191.it/EN-FrameBase.htm (http://www.eurocartogliani.191.it/EN-FrameBase.htm)

You have to click on "Catalogues" on the left, and then open the master "Engine Parts" catalog
Title: Re: WTB: One good IDI precup / prechamber insert
Post by: fatmobile on January 07, 2010, 11:10:30 pm
Quote
the chambers for the 2.0L 5-cyl diesel are the same as those for the 1.6L VW diesel

Well, that bears the question then, why did the precup from my 1.6 TD, not match the dimensions of the one you have?

 ???

Cheers
 Trev


 
 The 1.6TD precups aren't the same as the 1.6 NA
Title: Re: WTB: One good IDI precup / prechamber insert
Post by: trev on January 08, 2010, 06:49:13 pm
Apparently the catalog is wrong. Whoodathunkit?:D

As far as i know, the head is the original one on the car (Has been in family since it was 2 years old).

By the catalog, my precup matches the measurements for the 1.5 liter engine. And the 1.9.<shrug> dunno.

They show the 1.6/1.6TD as same.

Meh. Goes to show, you can never have quite enough reference material to cross check. Trust the measurements over the catalog applicability chart, would be my leanings.

 Cheers
 Trev
Title: Re: WTB: One good IDI precup / prechamber insert
Post by: Rabbit on Roids on January 09, 2010, 08:49:36 am
Quote
the chambers for the 2.0L 5-cyl diesel are the same as those for the 1.6L VW diesel

Well, that bears the question then, why did the precup from my 1.6 TD, not match the dimensions of the one you have?

 ???

Cheers
 Trev

1.6 TD and 1.5 are the same. if it takes the same cup as a TD, i will ship you one of my spare 1.5 cups. they and the 1.6 turbo are the same. the 1.6 n/a is larger along with the AAZ. from what ive read alteast. the faces on 1.5 and 1.6td are the same size tho.

and reading some of the last posts, we are completely contradicting each other. maybe this is one of those pieces that they just used whatever they could get in whatever engine?


 
 The 1.6TD precups aren't the same as the 1.6 NA