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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: Doakster on December 22, 2009, 07:27:44 pm

Title: New Intercooler Mounting Idea
Post by: Doakster on December 22, 2009, 07:27:44 pm
I have an idea on an spot to mount an intercooler, maybe it's not a new idea, but i don't recall it being done before.

I'd like to remove the stock air box, install a cone still filter and just in front of the cone filter, mount a saab blackstone intercooler. I would build a  new protective box around the filter and intercooler for heat protection and to some what channel the air around the intercooler and filter.

I may have to tilt the blackstone a little bit to allow it to fit.

Thoughts on this? I really can see the intercooler interfering with the filter air flow and i think the intercooler would have a far amount of air flow. It would also allow for short runs of piping all on the timing belt side of the engine bay.

Does anyone have the demensions of a blackstone intercooler or know of another intercooler that is about that size and could fit in the air box location?
Title: Re: New Intercooler Mounting Idea
Post by: Doakster on December 22, 2009, 07:42:47 pm
Yeah that was my biggest concern as far as not being efficient, would be convenient for a mounting location, but don't think it would be best for heat transfer. 

I think my only other logical option is a FMIC, tucked behind the opening of the bumper, not much room with the AC condenser, and not much room to run tubing lines to the front either.
Title: Re: New Intercooler Mounting Idea
Post by: mystery3 on December 22, 2009, 09:32:34 pm
How much do you use the a/c in Maine?

Has anyone ever mounted an IC in the raintray? A long skinny one obviously.
Title: Re: New Intercooler Mounting Idea
Post by: gldgti on December 22, 2009, 11:48:18 pm
bad idea..... for the reasons listed above. plus the little saab intercoolers arent much chop in a diesel. i fooled around with top mount 'coolers, ducted air and stuff, and it all worked, but not even half as well as my final solution:
http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=17437.0 (http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=17437.0)

hope that helps :-D
Title: Re: New Intercooler Mounting Idea
Post by: Doakster on December 23, 2009, 03:25:22 pm
bad idea..... for the reasons listed above. plus the little saab intercoolers arent much chop in a diesel. i fooled around with top mount 'coolers, ducted air and stuff, and it all worked, but not even half as well as my final solution:
http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=17437.0 (http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=17437.0)

hope that helps :-D

Thanks for the info, seems like you have much more room to work with in the front bumper on your  than the mk2 even with big bumper on my car, i think i might end up doing a front mount, but i think i'll have a tough time getting the piping routed from the engine bay through the bumper, on the passenger side i have an AC line right in the way of the logical place to run the piping to the front bumper and on the driver side the AC dryer is right in the way.
Title: Re: New Intercooler Mounting Idea
Post by: hamradio on December 24, 2009, 09:41:47 am
I don't think the saab blackstone IC is worth it (in 9000 or 900 forms).  The 9000 one, while large, is restrictive.  The 900 one, while a nice little package, gets heatsoaked so quickly.  My 1991 900 turbo has one, and it is really a terrible intercooler.
Title: Re: New Intercooler Mounting Idea
Post by: nime01 on December 24, 2009, 02:56:21 pm
Here's my Forge FMIC, not yet hooked up (changing HG at the moment). No problem mounting this.
(http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o295/golfbil/diesel/IMG_9053x.jpg)
Title: Re: New Intercooler Mounting Idea
Post by: Doakster on December 24, 2009, 07:57:54 pm
Nime01, couple questions, that care doesn't have AC does it, where did you get the IC and what are the dimensions?

There is an AC line right in the way on my car where your passenger side piping comes from the IC into the engine compartment, that i'm not sure i can get around.
Title: Re: New Intercooler Mounting Idea
Post by: nime01 on December 25, 2009, 12:57:26 am
Nime01, couple questions, that care doesn't have AC does it, where did you get the IC and what are the dimensions?

There is an AC line right in the way on my car where your passenger side piping comes from the IC into the engine compartment, that i'm not sure i can get around.
No, it doesn't have A/C, so it is probably a lot easier to fit. The IC is made by Forge Motorsport, 60mm core, 680 x 80 x 200mm

http://www.forgemotorsport.co.uk/content.asp?inc=product&cat=0013&product=FMINT104UNI (http://www.forgemotorsport.co.uk/content.asp?inc=product&cat=0013&product=FMINT104UNI)
Title: Re: New Intercooler Mounting Idea
Post by: stewardc on December 25, 2009, 03:26:20 am
Put the battery in the trunk and put the Blackstone flat where the battery is. Install a nice little fan on it to aid airflow.
Title: Re: New Intercooler Mounting Idea
Post by: Doakster on December 25, 2009, 05:18:57 am
Put the battery in the trunk and put the Blackstone flat where the battery is. Install a nice little fan on it to aid airflow.

I do realize that is an option, I'm just trying to avoid that if I can, it would be fairly easy for me to do, but i don't really want to relocate the bat. and add a fan.
Title: Re: New Intercooler Mounting Idea
Post by: blackdogvan on December 25, 2009, 08:19:39 am
I'm pretty sure these guys will have something to go pretty much anywhere. I just got a AWIC kit from them, the quality is actually pretty good. I hunted around quite a few ricer forums before i ordered & found quite a few good reviews of their products.

www.cxracing.com (http://www.cxracing.com)
Title: Re: New Intercooler Mounting Idea
Post by: golftd412000 on December 25, 2009, 08:48:23 am
in my golf2 tdi-m

(http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/625/imag0073.jpg)

and my post

http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=4929.285 (http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=4929.285)
Title: Re: New Intercooler Mounting Idea
Post by: Rabbit on Roids on December 25, 2009, 09:13:31 am
Put the battery in the trunk and put the Blackstone flat where the battery is. Install a nice little fan on it to aid airflow.

I do realize that is an option, I'm just trying to avoid that if I can, it would be fairly easy for me to do, but i don't really want to relocate the bat. and add a fan.

we were just going over this in another thread a couple days ago, about how restrictive the blackstone intercoolers are and how easy it is to heat soak them.
Title: Re: New Intercooler Mounting Idea
Post by: wildenbeast on December 28, 2009, 09:12:01 am
I'm pretty sure these guys will have something to go pretty much anywhere. I just got a AWIC kit from them, the quality is actually pretty good. I hunted around quite a few ricer forums before i ordered & found quite a few good reviews of their products.

www.cxracing.com (http://www.cxracing.com)

I am hoping you will post the install and results compared to your current setup.  The site you referenced has a lot of nice stuff...
Title: Re: New Intercooler Mounting Idea
Post by: Dewey on December 28, 2009, 09:16:31 pm
I think my only other logical option is a FMIC, tucked behind the opening of the bumper, not much room with the AC condenser, and not much room to run tubing lines to the front either.

Thats how i fit mine. Car is equipped with AC (nice and cold too  ;) ) and an oil cooler fastened to the backside of the intercooler. It is a tight fit, the bumper is trimmed to clear and the lower rad support bracket had to be removed. 1.9 with a 1.6 head, 20psi, some pump mods, and it has never gotten hot. (the "vents" seen in the plate recess are no longer there)

(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f124/Yotatoy/diesel011.jpg)

I also ran my intercooler piping as seen here. Not the most efficient routing due to length of the piping (close to 5 feet was used) but i only experienced a 2psi drop across the entire system. Turned the airbox on its side, cut the bottom of it out, ran the hot side down through a factory hole in the inner fender, and the cold side is run between the tranny and PS resevior, with a couple bends to connect everything under the car.

(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f124/Yotatoy/dasvolks085.jpg)
Title: Re: New Intercooler Mounting Idea
Post by: Rabbit on Roids on December 29, 2009, 08:22:17 am
omg... that is one sexy blue jetta.
Title: Re: New Intercooler Mounting Idea
Post by: Doakster on December 29, 2009, 05:04:17 pm
Dewey....nice setup, how much did you have to cut out of the front bumper, to get the IC to fit?

Also, how does the radiator hold up with no lower support?
Title: Re: New Intercooler Mounting Idea
Post by: Dewey on December 29, 2009, 07:05:47 pm
Dewey....nice setup, how much did you have to cut out of the front bumper, to get the IC to fit?

Also, how does the radiator hold up with no lower support?

The lower crossmember, which supports the rad, is still there, what i did remove was just the one bolt, in the center, at the very bottom of the rad support (what the headlights, grill and top rad mounts are attatched too).

As for how much i trimmed, i just kept trimming until the fit was nice and tight, this pic shows about how much i had too trim.

(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f124/Yotatoy/diesel006.jpg)

I can get measurements of the intercooler since the car is in pieces at the moment. the intercooler is a Yonaka unit, flows pretty good, and has been good for my needs. This is how it is mounted. Super simple, not too much is covered by the bumper, the temp difference side to side of the intercooler is noticable by touch. (this is an old pic, roughly 2 years ago, but car is in the same amount of disassembly now, never ending projects it seems  :P )

(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f124/Yotatoy/Jettapics073.jpg)



Title: Re: New Intercooler Mounting Idea
Post by: Doakster on December 29, 2009, 07:11:08 pm
Looks nice, might have to do something similar
Title: Re: New Intercooler Mounting Idea
Post by: Dewey on December 29, 2009, 07:15:38 pm
omg... that is one sexy blue jetta.

Thank you very much for the kind words :D. Im very proud of the work ive done and the way its turned out.
Title: Re: New Intercooler Mounting Idea
Post by: Smokey Eddy on December 30, 2009, 02:50:37 am
Yeah that was my biggest concern as far as not being efficient, would be convenient for a mounting location, but don't think it would be best for heat transfer.  

I think my only other logical option is a FMIC, tucked behind the opening of the bumper, not much room with the AC condenser, and not much room to run tubing lines to the front either.

lots of us have  done FMIC. me for example...
slightly larger than dewey's. It's almost 4 inches thick, i had to remove a lot of bumper material.
And like dewey's mine is very noticeably cooler from one side to the other. like night & day. mine cools well enough that i can touch the intake manifold and it's relatively cool.
minor modification required.
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f279/edmcclung/DSC06116.jpg)
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f279/edmcclung/DSC06118.jpg)
Title: Re: New Intercooler Mounting Idea
Post by: polo_td on December 30, 2009, 06:32:18 am
Hi.
If u use the MB sprinter IC u brob. dont need to do so much modifying.
Otherwise the BMW 525tds IC is a small one aswell.
Take a look at them.

here´s pic of the BMW´s
24" between in/outlets.
3" thick
3" high.

(http://forumbilder.se/images/5830200932759d01b.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)


thomas
Title: Re: New Intercooler Mounting Idea
Post by: nime01 on March 25, 2010, 03:00:17 pm
Finally finished mounting my IC, as the HG went bust some time ago, replaced with AAZ HG now! Noticeable difference, the intake manifold is ice cold to the touch, even after some inspired driving on max boost (set at 1.4 bar/20 PSI)

Before connecting the IC, EGTs were at 754℃ max, now I'm struggling to reach over 662℃, i.e. a 92℃ reduction in EGT. So there is some cooling going on.. :)

(http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o295/golfbil/diesel/IMG_2384.jpg)

(http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o295/golfbil/diesel/IMG_2385.jpg)

(http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o295/golfbil/diesel/IMG_2386.jpg)
Title: Re: New Intercooler Mounting Idea
Post by: rallydiesel on March 25, 2010, 03:45:19 pm
What kind of tubing is that black stuff?
Title: Re: New Intercooler Mounting Idea
Post by: truckinwagen on March 25, 2010, 03:52:42 pm
you mena what smokey eddy is using?

its ABS pipe, commonly used for drain, waste and vent piping in construction.

it is very robust, resists heat transfer and will hold a remarkable amount of pressure.
it is also easy to assemble with a hand saw, ABS cement and the appropriate couplers.

I thought of using it as well, but went for aluminized steel tubing and silicone couplers.
Title: Re: New Intercooler Mounting Idea
Post by: stewardc on March 25, 2010, 03:52:58 pm
But you have a turbo and intercooler on an engine with a NA pump. It must work like crap.
Title: Re: New Intercooler Mounting Idea
Post by: rallydiesel on March 25, 2010, 03:56:46 pm
I mean what nime01 is using.
Title: Re: New Intercooler Mounting Idea
Post by: truckinwagen on March 25, 2010, 03:58:05 pm
looks like reinforced silicone to me.

just like a coupler, but longer.
Title: Re: New Intercooler Mounting Idea
Post by: somolovitch3 on March 25, 2010, 05:25:03 pm
If you do not mind modifying hood, place the IC above the space between the radiator and the engine. Using a reverse "scoop" to modify the airflow, and a "real" scoop to get "cool" air to your intake.
Title: Re: New Intercooler Mounting Idea
Post by: vanbcguy on March 26, 2010, 12:25:22 am
But you have a turbo and intercooler on an engine with a NA pump. It must work like crap.

The NA pump can put out plenty of fuel, only thing he's got to worry about is smoke till the turbo spools up.  I don't think I'd really call that "working like crap"
Title: Re: New Intercooler Mounting Idea
Post by: Smokey Eddy on March 26, 2010, 12:54:40 am
you mena what smokey eddy is using?

its ABS pipe, commonly used for drain, waste and vent piping in construction.

it is very robust, resists heat transfer and will hold a remarkable amount of pressure.
it is also easy to assemble with a hand saw, ABS cement and the appropriate couplers.

I thought of using it as well, but went for aluminized steel tubing and silicone couplers.

It will handle the pressure, but won't handle the heat long term.  I used ABS on the first intercooler I fitted and it was at a very inopportune time when the tubing deformed and blew out on the freeway. 

I've driven many thousand km on my ABS and i haven't noticed ANY deformation.
The coupler on the turbo to the ABS needs to be silicone though. rubber wont cut it.
Title: Re: New Intercooler Mounting Idea
Post by: nime01 on March 26, 2010, 04:07:38 am
What kind of tubing is that black stuff?
Black reinforced silicone. That section will be replaced by stainless steel tubing.

But you have a turbo and intercooler on an engine with a NA pump. It must work like crap.
At 20 PSI, not really... (engine is an Eco Diesel)

But you have a turbo and intercooler on an engine with a NA pump. It must work like crap.
The NA pump can put out plenty of fuel, only thing he's got to worry about is smoke till the turbo spools up.  I don't think I'd really call that "working like crap"
Hehe, it does not work like crap, that's for sure. Big difference from how it was.
Title: Re: New Intercooler Mounting Idea
Post by: stewardc on March 26, 2010, 05:26:39 pm
But you have a turbo and intercooler on an engine with a NA pump. It must work like crap.

The NA pump can put out plenty of fuel, only thing he's got to worry about is smoke till the turbo spools up.  I don't think I'd really call that "working like crap"

That's cool. I've just never seen it. Please excuse the iggerance  :)