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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: ToddA1 on December 21, 2009, 10:02:23 am
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Mine is stock and 65 amps. Driving home in a snowstorm with the blower, lights, radio, GPS and wipers on, my alternator couldn't keep up. The battery is good and never slow cranked before, but did this time. I needed to jump start it and charge the battery when I got home. It's been fine since.
Is there a drop in replacement? Not looking to go serpentine, and I'd rather just keep all the A1 brackets, if possible.
-Todd
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put an a2 90 amp a/c alt in there? ive got a very power hungry amp hooked up in my GTI, and it does just fine.
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Are the mounting ears in the same position as mine? I've done that on gas cars, but I thought the diesel alts have the ears 180* out.
-Todd
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I have a 100 amp GM Alt.. :-[ Hey it was cheap and plentiful...
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I have a 100 amp GM Alt.. :-[ Hey it was cheap and plentiful...
Do show me how it is mounted, wired, and what it came from. ;D
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I used on of the "one wire" alts that Summit sells.. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-811001/ (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-811001/) It was on an old Caprice I had that died long ago...
Wiring was easy, one wire to the battery.. THe drawback is that I have no charge indicator.. I used one of the deep alt pulleys from an early non a/c MK1.. (From the alt with the short shaft) I needed a washer in the pivot bolt to shim the alt back a bit, and to take up some extra space in there.. IIRC the slide bracket was too short so I grabbed one from my junk pile.. One could probably lengthen the original one too.. I know I needed a slightly longer belt.. When I yank the engint out I'll have to snap some pics and post a writeup...
I was looking at one of the smaller alts like was used on a V6 Chevy Burito.. The ears on that one seem to be positioned about the same as the VW alt.. I may try mounting that in there when I do the engine swap.. The extra space under the hood would be handy....
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I had a really good experience getting my stock one rebuilt by a local specialist. I asked him to build it as powerful as possible in preparation for the compressors for the airbag set up I was fixing to install at the time. Benched at 105A or thereabouts. Price was the same as a non-OEM replacement and it came back all painted and pretty.
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I wish we still had some good rebuilders in this area.. Our last one finally retired.. Well actually he died in his shop (if only we could all be so lucky when the time comes!) I know I could rebuild, and build up such things myself, but until I source the parts it just isn;t worth it...
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Are the mounting ears in the same position as mine? I've done that on gas cars, but I thought the diesel alts have the ears 180* out.
-Todd
what does it matter if you mount it right side up or upside down? its still gonna be spinning the right way and making power, the connections are just going to be upside down. im pretty sure its a bolt on and go. you may have to use the A2 alt bracket tho, not 100% positive.
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I searched pics of both alternators. They're definitely different in the way they mount.
The Rabbit diesel had a wide mounting tab that slides between 2 mounting ears on the pivot bracket. The later Golf alternator has 2 ears that slide over a large tab on the pivot bracket.
I was hoping to find a drop in replacement.
-Todd
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I found a brand new Bosch 90 amp alt on ebay for my AAZ 60.00
it's all how you search for the item...
GB
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I never said I searched Ebay. Post a pic or link of what you bought, if you're telling me it'll work on a non-a/c Rabbit.
-Todd
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I searched pics of both alternators. They're definitely different in the way they mount.
The Rabbit diesel had a wide mounting tab that slides between 2 mounting ears on the pivot bracket. The later Golf alternator has 2 ears that slide over a large tab on the pivot bracket.
I was hoping to find a drop in replacement.
-Todd
the alt in my 85 golf mounts just like the alt in my rabbit. one big ear on the alt slides into 2 ears on the cast iron bracket. i dunno what your talking about them being different. but my golf/gti is an 85, so its kinda ancient. might be just enough years of difference for it to not work. but im almost 100% positive the gas alt will bolt to the diesel mount. i know the pulleys are the same offset, tried using a diesel pulley on my alt to delete the a/c, but it put it back in the right (wrong) spot.
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I searched a 90 Golf 8v.... maybe the image was incorrect? I'll check it out. Thanks.
-Todd
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yea dude, i would bet its wrong. i will check today if the alts interchange. im almost positive they will.
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will check today if the alts interchange. im almost positive they will.
Ever get to check that out?
-Todd
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i totally forgot to.
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Ace alternator's in yucca valley, ca has the most knowledgeable guys I have ever met. All of the work is done in house, and the majority of parts are off the shelf "their inventory is NUTS" They rebuild the generator for my 54' plymouth and it came out great and was really not that much, you could prolly call and get a quote, they get work from all over the US from what I hear. A lot of off road rig builders in this area because of the joshua tree natnl. monument nearby so they have a really great spot, and they are the single largest seller of interstate and deep cycle batteries on the west coast.... NO, not CA, the whole west coast. :o
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Ever get to check that out?
Both definitely slide in between 2 ears.
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Ever get to check that out?
Both definitely slide in between 2 ears.
thats what i thought. just like the A1 alt..
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Great; time for an upgrade....
Thanks!
-Todd
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Yes they both fit in the adjusting pivot but the difference is where they adjust from. I'm using the Rabbit diesel Alt. bracket and it adjusts from the bottom, so the adjusting tab is lower and theres a carriage bolt that holds it tight. The Rabbit gas Alt. is adjusted from the top, so the adjusting tab is higher. Hope that give you an idea.
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Figures, there's always something different...
I'm guessing you just modded/made a different adjustment arm?
-Todd
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one alternative i dont hear anyone talking about is just upgrading the stator... get a 90 or 120 amp stator and install it. ;) i would also advise installing the uprated diode pack too...
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one alternative i dont hear anyone talking about is just upgrading the stator... get a 90 or 120 amp stator and install it. ;) i would also advise installing the uprated diode pack too...
Would this literally be as easy as taking it out and swapping it in? do they fit in the same size case? good idea Jon :) Your full of them aren't you lol
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Getting these things apart can be a major pita. I tried getting a serpentine alt apart and gave up, months back. It'd be easier to just mod the arm, if needed.
-Todd
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one alternative i dont hear anyone talking about is just upgrading the stator... get a 90 or 120 amp stator and install it. ;) i would also advise installing the uprated diode pack too...
Would this literally be as easy as taking it out and swapping it in? do they fit in the same size case? good idea Jon :) Your full of them aren't you lol
:) hopefully at least one person can benefit from my exhaustive research... lol
the idea stems from homebrew wind/hydro power generation using car alternators. both applications with low speed requires a higher gauge wire (thinner) with more turns to produce enough voltage to charge a bank of batteries. a good way to visualize whats going on is to compare the copper wire to a hose size. the bigger the hose, the less pressure, but more flow. now with multiple small hoses, you still get pressure, but also flow... same concept with more turns with a smaller gauge wire. the drawback is that thinner wire is a little bit more brittle, but with an epoxy coating, it should last a very long time.
this type of research should be critical to every diesel enthusiast... in my search to end the deadly crank nose fix, i've thought of many different ideas... a crank stud instead of stretch bolt (which would work) but why not eliminate the real reason AND get the car to accelerate faster? one thing people need to know, is that the alternator spins at about 3 times the engine RPM. so if you want to rev to 6k, you have a spinning mass going at 18,000rpm. that is pretty crazy considering the weight of the rotor. so the solution is to run a bi-filar or even tri-filar wound stator, and increase the pulley size on the alternator. even a 2:1 ratio would be beneficial. it would really reduce the wear and tear on the crank nose, and really change the revability of the engine. not to mention the ability to run an electric supercharger by converting an alternator to a motor 8)
that being said, i'm not 100% sure if the stators are interchangeable, and so it wouldn't be a bad idea to take a trip to the local alternator rebuilders and ask to see some various stators and measure them. the casings on some are pretty tough to remove, but it is a worthwhile venture for someone who's strapped for cash but wants a higher output alternator.
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sounds very interesting, good luck 8)
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I have a 100 amp GM Alt.. :-[ Hey it was cheap and plentiful...
Me too, because it was the cheapest single wire alternator I could get with a lifetime warranty from AutoZone
(http://i533.photobucket.com/albums/ee338/the_arb/100_4920.jpg)
I have since shortened the bracket to be slightly higher than the lowest point on the Alt.
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Wow, that thing sits low.... is it lower than the oil pan?
-Todd
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I pretty much used all the VW brackets with the GM alternator.. I just needed the deep pulley to get it all lined up.. I'll have to snap some pics when I put the new engine together...
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Please do... if you take notice of the part #, please post them.
-Todd
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Wow, that thing sits low.... is it lower than the oil pan?
-Todd
oh, for sure.
but he is in a van that originally had a motor twice as heavy, so it sits up pretty high in the front.
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Speaking about alternators, does anyone know the part number ... or version ... of an alternator for a rabbit, non a/c type, that when mounted down near the bottom of the engine ... rather than topside like for the a/c type ... has the long shaft so that the pulley lines up with the belt?
I'm taking my a/c heater unit out and putting in a simple heater unit. In removing the compressor, will install the above described alternator down in it's place, with proper mount bracket, but the alternator(s) I have on hand ... none have the long shaft.
2nd part of this question ... will the normal pulley off of my a/c type alternator be interchangable ... in case I find the right alternator, but has no pulley?
Thanks
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the pulley is what is different on the alternators. the total length of the pulley is longer on the non ac cars. the alts are all basically the same, just different pulleys and mounting ears.
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Yeah, I just did the AC-ectomy on Jezebel, got the proper brackets and had to switch to the non-AC alternator just for the different mounting ears. It's readily available, although I couldn't find one for less than about $100. Unfortunately the mounting ear position seems to be unique to the VW non-AC diesels so there isn't much interchange.
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just thought i'd add anebay link (http://cgi.ebay.com/COIL-of-Wind-Turbine-PMA-Permanent-Alternator-Generator_W0QQitemZ260536532635QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3ca92ffe9b) that gives good instructions on how to swap stators to change the output of the alternator. IMO this is an easier way than modifying brackets...
they have a model that makes 512 volts @ 2500 rpm... and thats not engine RPM if you use the stock pulley.... that would be at around idle of the engine!!! new anti theft device? :o ;D
if anyone was wanting to experiment with HHO production, this would be the perfect way to do it. 12v produces such a negligable amount of HHO unless an electrolyte is added (which then reduces the life of the plates etc). maybe i'll try that where my a/c compressor goes as a second alt?
other stators available don't produce as much volts, but are still good. if anyone wanted to make a little hybrid electric car this would be perfect.
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A/C is a much more efficient way of producing brown's gas the type/quality of water used is a negligible calculation and for most cars with fancy electronics this would cause serious damage to the computer and everything else, but in our cars, with correct wiring........ HMMMMMMM....... ;)
Hybrid diesel water powered car anyone?
would it work as Hydrogen counts as a fuel and if it is inducted with the initial air charge premature combustion may occur, as is the case with using propane but increased pure oxygen would be highly beneficial not only to aid combustion but also to the environment. How do LPG injection systems work? if I knew maybe I could work a pressurized on-demand system for bron's gas and no one would have to use diesel as a fuel just inject pure hydrogen. An electromagnet could be used in the separation camber, and because the air is given a charge it will be attracted to one outlet of the other and flow of hydrogen/oxygen can be controlled and routed.
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A/C is a much more efficient way of producing brown's gas the type/quality of water used is a negligible calculation and for most cars with fancy electronics this would cause serious damage to the computer and everything else, but in our cars, with correct wiring........ HMMMMMMM....... ;)
Hybrid diesel water powered car anyone?
would it work as Hydrogen counts as a fuel and if it is inducted with the initial air charge premature combustion may occur, as is the case with using propane but increased pure oxygen would be highly beneficial not only to aid combustion but also to the environment. How do LPG injection systems work? if I knew maybe I could work a pressurized on-demand system for bron's gas and no one would have to use diesel as a fuel just inject pure hydrogen. An electromagnet could be used in the separation camber, and because the air is given a charge it will be attracted to one outlet of the other and flow of hydrogen/oxygen can be controlled and routed.
the diesel engine is definitely aided by running hydrogen. the engine will still require diesel to run, but the more HHO is added to the burn, the more power will be created, even if the diesel being injected is only enough to sustain idle. so you leave the diesel IP alone and just throttle the engine with the HHO/browns gas. 100+mpg anyone? 8)
or if you swap glow plugs with spark plugs, then you could run 100% HHO/browns. the retarded timing of diesel engines makes them ideal to run HHO as gassers have such a steep timing curve that at idle they seem fine, but rev it up and you get some crazy detonation. of course a re-map or chip can solve this, but the added compression ratio of a diesel will boost the efficiency even higher.
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sorry for the off topic banter, we should def make this a new thread. Mod anyone? this is an excellent Idea I say let's do it, the kind of power you would get from it would be good, except there are a few thermodynamic issues and other things to take into consideration. The pure combustion of Brown's gas is not combustion, it is imbustion "missing the C for carbon ;)" due to the combining of hydrogen and oxygen being a compression of the two, and as a result acts as a cooling action which for a diesel could be bad. The oxidation that occurs afterwards could also be of concern, I have run a system in a gasser before.
Kevin
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Wow, that thing sits low.... is it lower than the oil pan?
-Todd
Yeah,, just a little. I have plans to make a skid bracket to protect it. Other priorities first. I have not bottomed out since I lowered it. I did replace it once under warranty when the internal regulator went to 18v - Never seen that before. It fried my ECM so I lost a few things like fuel gauge, turn signals, intermittent wipers... but,,,, these do not keep me from getting down the road :-)
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Arb, you, my friend, never cease to amaze me to no end... Is that a double negative? Either way I think you get what I'm trying to say. Good Job,
Kevin
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I did replace it once under warranty when the internal regulator went to 18v - Never seen that before. It fried my ECM so I lost a few things like fuel gauge, turn signals, intermittent wipers... but,,,, these do not keep me from getting down the road :-)
I've seen that happen a few times on I think the Nippendenso alts.. A guy had that happen a fairly new Mazda, except it was putting out almost 25V.. And he kept driving.. IT got expensive quick.. Fried darn near everything..
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one time the alt went out in my buddies 80's nissan pickup. we dont know what it was putting out, but the gauge lights kinda hurt your eyes for a second before they all burned out.
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Mine is stock and 65 amps. Driving home in a snowstorm with the blower, lights, radio, GPS and wipers on, my alternator couldn't keep up. The battery is good and never slow cranked before, but did this time. I needed to jump start it and charge the battery when I got home. It's been fine since.
Is there a drop in replacement? Not looking to go serpentine, and I'd rather just keep all the A1 brackets, if possible.
-Todd
Clicketh thou this link: http://mk1ultra.com/mods/90a_alt/index.html (http://mk1ultra.com/mods/90a_alt/index.html)
This is how I put a 90amp alternator on my 1.6L (NA) in my 84 Rabbit whilst simultaneously deleting the AC (without changing that alternator bracket) and solving all belt tension issues. Changing belts is so easy that I almost wish I had to do it more often. Plus, My shift light still works MUHAHAHAHA!!!!! Have a look at http://mk1ultra.com/mods/w_terminal.html (http://mk1ultra.com/mods/w_terminal.html) to for more information on how to add a W terminal where one did not exist previously. Hope this helps.
~Jon
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Interesting! I would never have thought to have the tensioner at the same side as the pivot bolt.
I'm curious as to how the a/c version of the mounting bracket differs to the non a/c version. What I can see of your's looks like what I have.
Thanks!
-Todd
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The non-AC bracket puts the alt a couple inches lower and a little closer to the injection pump such that the belt is shorter and tensioner is under the alternator. I'll post a picture when i get home from work.