VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.
General Information => Troubleshooting => Topic started by: Lum on October 17, 2005, 12:04:56 pm
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Bought an old diesel Passat estate for 800 quid yesterday, not sure which version of the engine it is as the log book says it's a TD Umwelt, the advert and several insurers databases say it's a TDI, can anyone give me any clues as to which it is.
It's got 220,000 miles on the clock but seems to run ok, though I have discovered a few problems so far.
The electric windows are faulty, drivers one seems to have a faulty limit switch and a lot of play in it so that when closing the windows is at the wrong angle. I'm guessing that replacing the motor and gear mechanism will fix this.
The passenger window mechanism has been replaced with a wooden table leg holding the window shut (pic) (http://www.lum.co.uk/scoobynet/image(41).jpg) so that's going to need a new window mechanism too. Rear drivers side one also doesn't work but I don't care about that.
The lighting is weird, the front bumper has the lenses in place for fog lamps, yet none appear to be fitted (I've not had it open yet) and there is no switch for them inside.
At the back, we have wiring and bulb holders for two rear foglights, and lenses for two, but the passenger side one had a plastic blanking plate over the bulb hole. I cut this off and stuck a bulb in and now have two fog lights. *confused*
The horn is in a really stupid place and has turned into a round blob of rust, that needs replacing.
The biggest problem I have is I let my GF take it to work today and she parked it on an uphill slope at which point it wouldn't start. It appears air is getting into the fuel line somewhere and the fuel in that line all went back into the tank. There doesn't appear to be any diesel leaking so it can't be that bad. I'm tempted to just leave it parked facing the other way in future as the local mechanic seems to think that replacing the fuel lines will be long winded and expensive. Are there any common places for this to go or good ways to find out which bit is broken?
Any more checks or things I should do in order to ensure that this engine just keeps on working for me. It's going to mainly be a motorway car and occasional work horse for lugging stuff around.
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Take a picture of the engine... 1994 is early for a TDI but possible.
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Images of engine bay as requested
(http://www.lum.co.uk/scoobynet/Image(139).jpg)
(http://www.lum.co.uk/scoobynet/Image(138).jpg)
Apologies for the poor quality, it's the best we can manage at the moment.
At least we have a new horn and headlight arriving tomorrow to make it street legal.
I think in a year or so's time I'd like to put a much better engine there, since it's a grey estate with a huge dent in the bumper and a bit of non-critical rust starting, it would make an excellent sleeper :)
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Thats a 1.9TD AAZ
Things that tell it's a AAZ:
Mechanican gas mechanism
No electronics on the pump
No intercooler (hose from turbo directy towards the intakemanifold)
Turbo sits on top of the exhaustmanifold instead of hanging onto.
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Thanks for the information, and the fast reply, though I have no idea what an AAZ is :)
I assume I should be posting in the IDI section, or is IDI something different again?
Where can I go from here in terms of making the car more fun (once I have the fuel line issue fixed) Does Smog's DIY thread apply to this version of the engine?
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AAZ:
IDI
75hp/155Nm
Small fast spooling Garrett T2 or KKK K14 turbo
I've got the same engine, but replaced the turbo with a KKK K24, did some pump modding, larger/freeflow downpipe&exhaust, large intercooler:
http://morninglight.demon.nl/a3/dyno1.jpg
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Thanks once again. The car was advertised as a TDi so I'm a little annoyed, but it looks like this version of the engine will be easier to modify without expensive trips to someone with kit to remap it.
125 bhp and 177 lb/ft of torque is impressive with what appear to be fairly simple mods. I'll have to have a look around and see just how far these engines can go. :)
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If it was sold as a TDI to me I would have a nice talk with the seller :?
BTW enginecode is on the block between/below 2nd/3rd injector on a flat spot.
My KKK K24 with 70mm downpipe:
(http://morninglight.nl/a3/dp1.jpg)
(http://morninglight.nl/a3/dp2.jpg)
The downpipe is made by a friend and sells for €170 ex shipping :wink: the flange is the same as the oem exhaust but you'll have to weld a complete new exhaust (pref 60mm)
Pump modding included the LDA lid from a GTD, stiffer governor springs with 1 washer and removing the throttle maxlimiter.
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Looks fairly easy, but after todays news, I'm going to have to delay things a bit. Apparently it started making a squaling sound like a belt slipping, even though the belts seem fine.
My GF (who's using the car this week) thinks that one of the two silver pipes that run into the fuel pump need replacing (which would also explain the inability to start if parked facing uphill) but I've not been able to look at it because I'm not getting in from work until after it's gone dark and she is using the car.
Any idea what it might be, and do I need to stop it being driven until I can have a proper look on sunday?
Edit: She also mentioned a puff of blue smoke coming from under the bonnet and the engine bay smelling of diesel.
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Maybe it's time to tension your belt, loosen the alternator and tighten it again.
2 silver pipes :?:
I suggest you look for leaking diesellines, while your at it replace the 2 feed/returnlines and the returnlines on the injectors..
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Maybe it's time to tension your belt, loosen the alternator and tighten it again.
I'll give that a go tomorrow, is the car safe to drive in the meantime though?
I made a recording of the sound, but I haven't been able to make it into an MP3 without the chirping getting filtered out. it's a constant cheep-cheep-cheep noise, like a budgie might make, and only at idle.
2 silver pipes :?:
These two:
(http://www.lum.co.uk/scoobynet/silverpipes.jpg)
They appear to be wrapped in some kind of sticky silver foil, the pipe underneath is clear.
I suggest you look for leaking diesellines, while your at it replace the 2 feed/returnlines and the returnlines on the injectors..
Do I have to get proper VW hoses, or will any hose of the same material and internal diameter do the job?
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It's that rare bird, the 1.9 AAZ Eco-Diesel ("Umwelt").
Basicly it's got a neutered fuel pump, without the LDA on top of the pump that connects it to the turbo, single stage injectors, and lord knows what else different.
Less power, worse mileage than the standard AAZ with the LDA.
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It's that rare bird, the 1.9 AAZ Eco-Diesel ("Umwelt").
Basicly it's got a neutered fuel pump, without the LDA on top of the pump that connects it to the turbo, single stage injectors, and lord knows what else different.
Less power, worse mileage than the standard AAZ with the LDA.
Thinking about it, it says something about umwelt on the log book. I just didn't trust the logbook to be correct (My other car was listed as a Subaru Legacy 2.5 4Cam when it's actually a Subaru Legacy B4 which has a 2 litre twin turbo engine)
So basically I've bought a Passat with the crappiest engine possible? Is it at least going to last for a long time?
Also, that chirping noise seems to have stopped.
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So basically I've bought a Passat with the crappiest engine possible?
The "umwelt" isn't as nuetered as the older 1.6 ecodiesel. The LDA on the pump is present, but the factory aneroid pin and spring combination really doesn't add much fuel under boost. It also does not add fuel in a linear fashion, its more of a 2 stage setup. With a proper aneroid pin and spring the engine will really wake up.
Is it at least going to last for a long time?
Probably not, unless you really keep an eye on it... These engines are famous for the "crank pulley syndrome". The crank timing pulley works its way loose and trashes the valves, usually happens between 100000 and 200000km. If you check or replace the pulley and replace the bolt at every timing belt change they will generally stay together. A one way clutch type alternator pulley from the TDI may help as well.
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Well, I have 220,000 miles on it so that's what? 350,000 - 400.000 kms?
Was this issue a case of there were some bad ones and some that ran forever, or am I likely to see it go pop at any time now?
I've had a similar thing happen on an Audi TT that was less than 3 years old, and it was making a distinctive clattery whirry noise before it went, will I hear a similar noise here, or will it just go one day with no signs beforehand? They never told me exactly what went wrong, just replaced the whole cylinder head as a single unit (and broke the crank angle sensor in the process)
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Yours may well have been fixed once, or it may have just been looked after. I have seen the odd one make it to 300000+ without intervention, but its fairly rare.
As for an early warning, I wouldn't count on it... Some just wear the key without really loosening the bolt much, the pulley will then "cam" outward over the worn stub of the key and snap the bolt off quite suddenly. If you don't know the history it might not be a bad idea to change the timing belt and have a look at the pulley while you're in there.
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The "umwelt" isn't as nuetered as the older 1.6 ecodiesel. The LDA on the pump is present, but the factory aneroid pin and spring combination really doesn't add much fuel under boost. It also does not add fuel in a linear fashion, its more of a 2 stage setup. With a proper aneroid pin and spring the engine will really wake up.
Are you sure about that? Mine doesn't have the "mushroom" on the top, and no connection to the turbo at all, same as his. Just a blank plate where the LDA should be.
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Are you sure about that?
Look closely at the image in Lum's post, you can quite clearly make out the banjo fitting on the rear of the LDA cap with a hose running from it over the valve cover. In another image you can, perhaps not so clearly, see the hose running from the banjo fitting to the elbow on the intake manifold. The AAZ LDA does not have a screw to adjust the base position or "off boost" fueling, but it does nonetheless have limited boost enrichment. Mine has the same pump, I'm currently running and LDA pin and spring from a BMW 524TD pump, works nicely.
I have seen one AAZ pump that did not have an LDA. A photo of it was posted on this, or maybe another forum. I believe it was a very early passat. It had a completely flat plate fitted over the LDA lid, possibly the same as yours?
There may be a few variations on the AAZ, some more common than others. Suffice to say that Lum's, as well as the great majority of others, are fitted with some form of LDA.
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Well, I think I'm going to stop driving the car for now, then when I get paid I'll take it in for a service, get all the belts done, and ask for the crank timing pulley/bolt to be replaced as well.
Anything else I should know about this engine so I can get it done on Wednesday?
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It's that rare bird, the 1.9 AAZ Eco-Diesel ("Umwelt").
The AAZ is the "succesor" of the 1.6 ECO diesel, hence the crippled fuel enrichment and small turbo. Shortly after that the TDIs came around for replacing the 1.6GTD while the AAZ was still sold till '98.
It does have 2 spring bodies.
(http://gallery.vwcaddyforum.nl/albums/userpics/10001/AAZbout.jpg)
A picture of the old&new style bolt, if you have the old one.. DO NOT drive it until you have replaced it!
Lum,. a mile is roughly 1.6km, 220k =352K Km
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the proper phrase should be
do not RUN it until youve replaced it
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I stand corrected, his does have the LDA. So it's not an Umwelt then, like mine.
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Well, it's going in for a service tomorrow (hopefully) so I need to figure out what to get them to do.
20,000 mile service
Check belts, but they look fairly new
replace crank timing pulley and bolt with a new style one (see picture)
Fix alternator belt tension
Fix slack in throttle cable and lubricate where necessary
Replace the two silver fuel hoses in the engine bay with the correct kind of hoses (clear?)
Anything else I should be getting done?
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Ok, it's at the garage now, being serviced.
He's told me that the crank pulley looks ok, and that the bolt was tight, though hasn't told me which kind of bolt it has.
Is it possible to replace the bolt with the new kind? If it's the old kind should I be replacing it even though it was nice and tight?
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The bolt must be replaced if it was removed, it is a stretch bolt. Make sure the mechanic understands and follows the torquing procedure and uses the new style bolt. I would replace the pulley as well, just for insurance. The new bolt must be tightened to 66ft/lbs and then tightened a further 90º. This is far tighter than most impact guns are capable of. Your mechanic may need to come up with a method of holding the crank stationary while tightening the bolt. I use a homemade tool that attaces to the pulley face, but pulling the oil pan and blocking the crank with a wood block also works. The clutch/brake method will not hold the crank, the clutch slips before you get the 90º turn on the bolt.
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I think he just inspected the pulley and tested the bolt TBH, are you saying this isn't enough?
It's going to have to go back soon for a little more work (the fuel pump needs replacing (and I'd like to know if it can be upgraded at this point (http://www.vwdiesel.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=16812#16812), the brake hoses and suspension bushes need doing, and also a wheel bearing) so I'll get this done then.
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Does anyone have VW part numbers for the pulley and the bolt because the guy at the parts desk at the VW dealership had no idea what I was talking about and just gave me an exploded diagram and suggest I get you people to point out which bits I need, which would be fine if I had a scanner.