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General Information => Troubleshooting => Topic started by: ffgb on December 13, 2009, 11:24:45 pm

Title: camshaft pulley!
Post by: ffgb on December 13, 2009, 11:24:45 pm
How do you all tighten/loosen the camshaft pulley before/after a timing belt change?  I do not have the fancy bar that attaches to the pulley and leverages the pulley in the opposite direction when trying to torque down or loosen the bolt.  Please, how do you all do it safely?
Title: Re: camshaft pulley!
Post by: 745 turbogreasel on December 13, 2009, 11:46:38 pm
vice grip on the cam (not on the lobe :o) with the handle  wedged  on valve cover surface works ok in the field.
I welded 2 allen bolts to a bit of pipe such that they plug into holes in the cam pulley, and my socket fits through the pipe....then welded on a handle.   works great.
Title: Re: camshaft pulley!
Post by: 8v-of-fury on December 14, 2009, 06:04:12 am
This works great too.

(http://vincewaldon.com/images/stories/how_to/timing/cam_hold_wrench.jpg)
Title: Re: camshaft pulley!
Post by: Rabbit on Roids on December 14, 2009, 10:03:31 am
omg dude, you are gonna mess your cam up doing that. never use a tool on the lobe of a cam. thats possibly the stupidest thing you could do. get a little nick on the lobe, then it wipes out the adjuster shim, and possibly that lobe on the cam. leave the timing bar in the back of the cam, or lock some vice grips to the actual shaft of the cam, not the lobe.
Title: Re: camshaft pulley!
Post by: Doug on December 14, 2009, 10:20:55 am
That was worth a chuckle. I think that was the intent.
Title: Re: camshaft pulley!
Post by: Op-Ivy on December 14, 2009, 10:47:39 am
Vice grip on cam shaft between the lobes.
Title: Re: camshaft pulley!
Post by: truckinwagen on December 14, 2009, 10:47:46 am
I regularly use a crescent wrench on the cam lobe, I just put a rag between it and the cam, works great and no issues yet.

an old timer told be to do it, and I have no problem doing it.

I would be more worried about damage done by putting a vise grip between the lobes, the cams are not great castings to begin with and adding stress points(the grooves left by the vise grip) would be a bad idea, at least as I see it.
Title: Re: camshaft pulley!
Post by: Rabbit on Roids on December 14, 2009, 11:00:04 am
I regularly use a crescent wrench on the cam lobe, I just put a rag between it and the cam, works great and no issues yet.

an old timer told be to do it, and I have no problem doing it.

I would be more worried about damage done by putting a vise grip between the lobes, the cams are not great castings to begin with and adding stress points(the grooves left by the vise grip) would be a bad idea, at least as I see it.

Vw cams are of much harder alloy and much greater quality than american counter parts. vw cams are tough, no set of vice grips is going to mess one up if you do it on the shaft between the lobes. theres just no way that i would ever hold the cam by the lobe.
Title: Re: camshaft pulley!
Post by: 8v-of-fury on December 14, 2009, 03:45:20 pm
theres just no way that i would ever hold the cam by the lobe.

Vince says its ok.. so I believe it is ok.
Title: Re: camshaft pulley!
Post by: Dakotakid on December 14, 2009, 04:20:18 pm
Life on the ragged edge can be exciting!!!
Title: Re: camshaft pulley!
Post by: wolf_walker on December 14, 2009, 08:40:35 pm
If you hurt that lobe with an adjustable crescent you are a bad, bad mofo.  Think about what that piece of metal does for a living.
Title: Re: camshaft pulley!
Post by: 8v-of-fury on December 14, 2009, 08:56:28 pm
'tis true. use a clean crescent wrench. :) always worked for me, however IMO i'm cheap
Title: Re: camshaft pulley!
Post by: wolf_walker on December 14, 2009, 09:43:18 pm
however IMO i'm cheap

If I wasn't a cheap SOB I damn sure wouldn't(still) be driving one(two) of these noisy slow
beasties after all these years..   lol
Title: Re: camshaft pulley!
Post by: Rabbit on Roids on December 15, 2009, 08:24:45 am
NEVER use the cam lock to hold the cam while loosening the cam bolt.  There are lots of ways to hold the cam from turning.  I've never used the vice grips on the cam or the crescent.  Neither method appeals to me.  It took me about 15 minutes one day to make a "temporary" pulley holder using an old piece of pipe, a piece of angle iron three bolts and six nuts.  A drill and chop saw with fiber disc did the work.  That makeshift pulley holder has lasted several years.  I've actually just recently been eying some nice new steel square tube I have here and been thinking I'd make a more refined version.  The actual tools can be had for $30 or so.

   

why cant you use the cam lock to hold the cam? it seems like its safer than holding the cam with a toothed tool. or a cresent wrench. i just have a slightly bent wrench that i hold my cam with.
Title: Re: camshaft pulley!
Post by: 8v-of-fury on December 15, 2009, 08:33:23 am
the cams alloy has never been subjected to twisting force. You run a very high chance of breaking the back of the cam (where the lock slides in), and if your lucky it comes off when you did it.. if your not it only cracks and comes off 1000miles don the road when your 140miles from home lol. you probably run a slight chance of breaking the cam right in the middle, im just saying.

You'd use a cam lock to loosen/tighten but you are against a crescent wrench on the lobe.. Makes sense lol
Title: Re: camshaft pulley!
Post by: burn_your_money on December 15, 2009, 02:29:18 pm
I've seen about 3 cams that broke because of people using the cam lock to tighten/loosen the cam. One snapped right at the #4 bearing
Title: Re: camshaft pulley!
Post by: Makebeleaf on December 17, 2009, 02:59:44 am
You can get the tool from Princess auto for $15 from Princess Auto. Pretty darn cheap and no messing around!

http://www.princessauto.com/tools/auto-repair/auto-repair/8159808-camshaft-holding-tool?keyword=cam+tool (http://www.princessauto.com/tools/auto-repair/auto-repair/8159808-camshaft-holding-tool?keyword=cam+tool)


Title: Re: camshaft pulley!
Post by: smutts on December 18, 2009, 03:22:29 am
Bit of lead flashing to protect the cam lobe, seems easiest.
Title: Re: camshaft pulley!
Post by: Vincent Waldon on December 18, 2009, 06:35:58 am
My thoughts are:

- if you use the cam lock to to loosen the cam sprocket you will very often get this result:

(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa85/vwaldon/broken_cam.jpg)

It's not designed for those forces evidently. ;)

- if done properly, this is safe:

(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa85/vwaldon/cam_hold_wrench-1.jpg)

"Done properly" means the wrench is very carefully adjusted so that it's grabbing the sides of the cam lobe rather than the profile that actually engages the lifter.  That way even if a nick results it's not on the part of the cam that pushes against the lifter.

- having said that, the tool on the bottom (as suggested by Makebeleaf) is dirty cheap and works extremely well for all kinds of different sprockets:

(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa85/vwaldon/cam_holding_tools.jpg)
(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa85/vwaldon/cam_hold_tool.jpg)

I can't imagine taking the risk with any other method... just my opinion.
Title: Re: camshaft pulley!
Post by: rabbitman on December 18, 2009, 12:49:49 pm
I really doubt an adjustable wrench could hurt a cam lobe, that stuff is sooo hard.

I have a junk cam I will smack with different stuff (hammer, screwdriver, punch, chisel yada yada) and see how it takes it.
Title: Re: camshaft pulley!
Post by: theman53 on December 18, 2009, 01:13:39 pm
I smacked one with a hammer as hard as I could once. It was an accident I was using a punch to get out a headbolt and missed the punch :-[ . It did make a mark on the cam, but I ran it afterwards with no ill effects. I could basically see it, but not really feel it, and it was off to the side so it wasn't on the lifter squarely.
Title: Re: camshaft pulley!
Post by: smutts on December 28, 2009, 09:17:53 am
If anyone in experimenting with a knackered cam with a hammer, mind your eyes if the result is shrapnel. ;)
Title: Re: camshaft pulley!
Post by: Rabbit on Roids on December 29, 2009, 11:48:45 am
ok, well, if someone does some valid testing, and the cam doesnt scratch, i will use that method next time i do something up there. i could see it working if you used a wrench with nice clean jaws, and no burrs anywhere to mar the cam, and with it nice and tight against the cam and tightened so it couldnt slip or twist, it seems like it would work fine. i keep forgetting these cams are SUPER hard alloy, probably harder than any tool alloy really.
Title: Re: camshaft pulley!
Post by: Vanagoner on December 29, 2009, 12:50:43 pm
Please help school me up-  I always leave the cam free and hit a wrench with a brass hammer to loosen it.  I tighten it up that way too when I'm done.  Am I hurting the belt or anything else by doing so?