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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: maxfax on December 07, 2009, 04:26:23 am
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SO it finally happened.. That 1.6 I've been nursing along with oil gushing into the coolant for darn near 2 years burning WVO and WMO gave up.. Well not completely, the HG starting letting a bit of compression in the cooling system.. The dead giveaway aside from odd random overheating?? The coolant smelled like french fries!! 8) So I have a new engine I have been slowly putting together, the smart thing to do here woudl be get my butt in gear, put it together, and install it.. But alas this poor 1.6 and I have been through alot together.. Good times they were, I'm not ready to say goodbye just yet..
I know this has been touched upon here before but in theory there wasn;t any real good solutions.. I considered using brass in the cracks, but getting the block hot enough to draw it in wasn;t happening.. So the plan, V the cracks right to where the threads begin (about 1/16" from the deck of the block).. Fill aforementioned v's with nickel welding rods.. The next step will be to grind the weld down ALMOST flush with the deck, finish with a hand file, sanding block, and fiber polisher. Dremmel excess weld from bolt holes and passages.. After that slather any missed pits with good ole JB weld and polish again.. I have also started to file a small V in the cracks running down inside the coolant passages with a small triangular file.. I plant to clean what I can and slather som JB in those.. Before installation I'll be chasing the bolt holes with a tap, cleaning the heck out of them with solvent and compressed air, and installing the head studs with some sort of thread sealer (suggestions welcome on what to use)..
Sorry I didn;t get too crazy on the photo documentary.. I didn't get pics of a dirty nasty cracked mess, and V'ed cracks.. I will get some more pics as I get hte weld cleaned up, or at least a finished product.. Did I mention I can't weld for crap??
(http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm124/maxfax3/VW/DSCF1938.jpg)
(http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm124/maxfax3/VW/DSCF1939.jpg)
(http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm124/maxfax3/VW/DSCF1942.jpg)
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You're a brave man
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Id be looking for an engine.
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Brave or crazy.. There's a fine line.. I have another engine just about ready to go.. But heck, worst case? I'll be out some fluids, a head gasket, and some time.. And I'll still have a junk engine... If it works, my generator will run nicely.. Or should I taunt fate and throw a turbo at it?? ;D
So here's a few pics of the initial grind down..
(http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm124/maxfax3/VW/DSCF1943.jpg)
(http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm124/maxfax3/VW/DSCF1944.jpg)
(http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm124/maxfax3/VW/DSCF1946.jpg)
(http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm124/maxfax3/VW/DSCF1945.jpg)
I had mentioned about using a file and sanding to get thinsg flatenned out.. Since nickel is softer than cast iron I opted to use this.
(http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm124/maxfax3/VW/DSCF1950.jpg)
Worked dandy.. Held it flat to the block and it ground the nickel nice and flat with the cast surface.. The straight edge confirmed.. Sorry, I got impatient and didn;t get pics of this step.. But I do have this:
(http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm124/maxfax3/VW/DSCF1948.jpg)
(http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm124/maxfax3/VW/DSCF1948.jpg)
(http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm124/maxfax3/VW/DSCF1949.jpg)
JB weld in place, all the little pits filled (and the accidental knick with the grinder at the oil passage >:() so now I wait........ The HG should be here by the time the JB weld is cured and sanded...
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so it let go at what.. 4-5 places?
No offense Brett, but I'm going with Crazy over Brave. lol
Hope this works out for you. A turbo would probably be this things demise :P
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Looks like a good candidate block for a 1.6 diesel dimensioned gasser. ;D
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Hey, I salute your work... It's your time to do with as you wish. If it's wasted oh well, atleast you tried. I would likely do the same since sometimes half the fun is doing the work even if it fails. ANYBODY can replace parts..... FEW can save them... ;D
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Awesome! Lookig at the pics I kept on getting flashes of all the "Assemble in a clean, dry place." instructions you always see in regard to rebuilding engines...
Redneck rebuild of the year contender.
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8 cracks in all to be exact.. I suspect if it fails, it will be the rear two bolts as those are the worst offenders.. This really isn't intended as a permanent fix, nor would I recomend trying it.. More or less it's a "what the heck" kind of thing.. Shame Prothe doesn;t have 1.5 gaskets, I'd go all out!! (Yeah I guess I didn't mention, this thing is actually 1.5 block and head with 1.6 internals.. ;D)
The thing of it is, I have run this engine for almost 140K miles KNOWING all those cracks were there.. I smeared the threads of the head studs with hylomar when I installed them and it ran flawless for 30K miles.. After that it started getting oil in the coolant again till late this summer when that even stopped.. ??? I think what got me in trouble is that I flushed the soapy water out and actually put antifreeze back in it the other week.. It wasn;t long till the oil returned then ultimatly a compression leak..
Before I smeared the jb weld on this thing I did intall an old head bolt and torque it to about 90 ft/lbs.. All the holes held.. :o
I need to tlak to the guys at the machine shop and see exactly what kind of rods those were they gave me, with my poor welding skills they welded nicely.. Good penetration and minimal spatter... (Easy Jeremy, I know I used those two words :P)..
I think I'll go finish putting that 12mm 1.6 together now, I might need it...
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My money would be a 59% nickel rod is what they gave u. Thats good for cast iron that will need machining. For things that dont need machining usually its 99%.
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Cleaned up the excess JB weld this afternoon (pics to come), the deck surace actually looks pretty darned good.. Called in a favor from the guys at the machine shop, and had one of the guys stop by after work with their more precision measuring instruments.. The worst area of the deck (#4 cyl towards the flywheel) checked out at around .002" from flat.. At that I'm going to stop grinding at it before I screw it up worse.. I should have my head gasket tomorrow.. My parts guy has one in some old inventory he's gonna give me (SCORE! :)).. IF all goes as planned I should know by Thursday if I need to retitle this thread as "Epic Fail" so that it can be shared on the Honda forums.... :P
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I think if this does not work.. it will be a Heroic Fail.. as any sane person would have given up a looong time ago lol.
No reason why it can't hold up to another 40k lol
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I know a fellow whose outboard quit on him in the gulf.
He pulled the head, cut a page from a book into a head gasket, and motored back to shore. :D
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I'm a bit confused.... if this works, you'll be pulling it to run a generator?
Are you planning on breaking the block down or will you just keep changing the oil to get rid of all the swarf?
-Todd
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The original plan was when the new engine was done swap it in there (Most of the time this car is my DD), and use this cracked motor on my welder/generator.. Even with the oil going in the coolant it would have been fine for the limited use it would get.. Since all this went down I'll probably try it out in the car for a few weeks just to see what happens (local drives of course).. IF it lives a few thousand miles in the car it ought to be fine for a few hundred hours a year on a generator. The generator won;t be near the workout versus me driving it as it's now powered with a very tired 2 cylinder Wisconson..
I did actually plug the ports and cylinders with rags while I was griding/welding but I also pulled the pan and sprayed everything down with some petrolium based parts cleaner (looks and smells like off road diesel to me ???) just in case.... The worst part is going to be getting all the residual oil out of the cooling system.. I've been flushing the rad and heater core with hot water and degreaser and the goo keeps on coming.. THe bugger now is I forgot I had no extra injector hezat shields.. Gotta order some of those, and wait some more.. I guess this will give the hylomar plenty of time to set up...
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I'd think that running the car with a little "Purple Power" or Super Clean" in the coolant would clean it out best. You'd have to flush and fill a couple times, but I'd think it'd be the quickest and easiest way.
I'm sure Simple Green would be the safest, but I like harsh, undiluted chemicals.
-Todd
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I used purple power / super clean in the past.. The trouble with these is that they foam.. I believe simple green does as well... THe foam builds up get's sucked into the rest of the sytem and causes issues similar to the ones cause by air pockets.. Put some Joy dish washing soap in an automatic dishwasher and you'll see what I mean.. ;D
Dishwasher or laundry detergent seem to work best as these don't foam.. The last few years that I have been running this engine with oil going in the coolant I've been using cheapo generic dishwasher gel.. It's been enough to keep the hoses from turning to goo, well at least not severely..
Even with flushing all the components individually (having hot water in the garage rocks!!) I plan on running dishwasher soap and water for a while anyhow.. Aside from cleaning things out even more I don;t wanna waste antifreeze if it continues to spew things where it shouldn't.. I'll just keep it in the garage for now to prevent freezing..
An update on the rest of the progress, I have the head torqued on.. Everything felt good, no eerie sounds or odd loose feeling studs.. I actually put the head on last night and left it sit to let the hylomar cure.. Gonna flush the engine with some hot water before assembling further.. DIdn;t get any time to day to work on it today as I spend half the day dealing with insurance companies and such.. Snow Plow vs Crown Victoria = Tie
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ARGH! No injector heat shields today... :( I can;t believe I forgot to order those, or that I don;t have an extra set around... :-[ Anyone in central PA have an extra set they wanna sell???
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that sucks, I always try to have a set or two around.
always order at least three sets at a time, that way you know you will have them when you need them.
wish I was closer and could toss you a set.
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I usually have at least one extra set if not more.. I think that one extra set was used when I installed the injectors in the new engine a few days ago.. :-\.. Oh well.. This gave me some time to tackle this terminally leaky injector.. I think the line itself is the culprit, the end looks a tad funky compared to the rest...
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Well if nothing else comes of this I FINALLY FOUND MY OVER COOLING PROBLEM!!!! Yes I'm that excited.. Stupidly simple it was too... I've replaced the t-stat many times trying to fix this to no avail.. Even replaced the water pump at the last t-belt change.. Yet I never bothered to closely inspect the water pump housing.. The darn thing was erroded and letting coolant past the t-stat.. I'm not even sure how it managed not to leak to be honest.... This thing must have had some nasty coolant (besides what I was running) at one time.. Of course the donar car for these parts had 546,000 miles when the odometer quit.... ::)
On to the crack.... I filled and pressure tested the cooling system, it held 20psi for about an hour.. Compression was pretty close 470ish across the board.. Keep in mind the engine has not been run yet, and the compession is slightly higher to begin with on this combo, but not bad none the less... I may do a leak down if I don;t have heat shields in the morning....
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Sound's good ;D
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A few phone calls, a bit of begging I got me some heat shields.. Injectors in, engine fired till the fan cycled, retorqued the head.. No bubbles in the expansion tank, no excess pressure in the system.. No signs of oil yet but that usually take a bit of driving to show up....
TO set things off it's 19 F out this morn...
The first ride I took it pretty easy.. Temp crept up slowly till it hit 220 F then bam it dropped back down to 190.. Hmmm checked coolant, topped as necessary, tried again with the same results.. Having heat was a totally new sensation but I think the t-stat is stickey.. No wonder, it's been living in a mix of dishwasher soap, antifreeze, oil, and water.. To verify I took it one more ride till the temp hit about 210 ( half on the factory gauge) stopped and felt the lower hose, twas cold..
Rooted though my crap and found a 180 F stat... A tad cooler than the 195 F I was running but have the WVO heat exchangers removed to be cleaned out so no biggie.. Took another gentle ride, GOLDEN! Took a few laps aroudn the block a few times pushing it harder each time, still good.. I do notice the temp drops rather quickley when going down hill, this stat may be questionable as well, or it could just be that it's getting a bit chilly out.. So anyhow feeling brave I took it a hell run up the mountain.. THe temp climbed just as it always has.. Hit 210 but no more.. Started dropping after I stopped at the top.. Going down the mountain the temp dropped down to about 140..
About 40 miles on it and no coolant loss, over heat, or signs of oil.. Not even a fuel leak for once... I'll be anxious to try it out some more the next few days when the temps come back up... I'm *almost* tempted to put antifreeze in it, but I think I've taunted fate enough so far..
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do yourself a favor and put the green stuff in it, as we speak i have a frozen (and possibly broken) diesel audi and a frozen rabbit.
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I fully intend to.. I left it sit in the garage last night to prevent having a Bunnycicle.. That's actually how I got this particular car to begin with.. I plan to take it a good run this afternoon with soapy water for coolant then give it one more good flushing.. I need to change the t-stat anyhow..
I wonder if the aluminum housings are meaty enough to drill and tap for a drain plug..
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I wonder if the aluminum housings are meaty enough to drill and tap for a drain plug..
I've always wanted to do that. Even if you welded a bung, then tapped, that.... draining these cars can be a pain.
I always drill a few small holes in the thermostat rim, so the block would eventually drain, too.
-Todd
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I wonder if the aluminum housings are meaty enough to drill and tap for a drain plug..
Fatmobile's got the waterpump covered:
http://www.vwdieselparts.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7111 (http://www.vwdieselparts.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7111)
Note that draining the waterpump only drains the block...he's got a great picture on that thread of using a screwdriver to drain the rad... suppose you could drill and plug the t-stat housing as well.
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Brilliant! Shame I just got done putting that housing back on..
I may still try something with the t-stat housing and the drilled t-stat... Much easier to remove.. All I have for aluminum welding are rods for the arc welder.. They aren;t pretty but if I could get a blob of bubble gum on there, grind it to something presentable, then drill and tap..
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LMK how it works out. I like the drilled elbow, better. I grabbed one from the jy months ago, but it's still sitting in the parts bucket. The furthest I got was cleaning it.
I'm curious if ya JB Weld bung would be enough. It would be easy to scar the aluminum, construct a small cardboard tube, and fill it when attached to the elbow. Drill and tap that.
-Todd
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nice to hear you had a win (so far, fingers crossed). on the waterpump erosion thing - many cleaners (especially non-foaming ones) are very alkaline - this isnt good for aluminium parts, particularly the low alloy cast waterpumps, etc.
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Nice work ;D
I do notice the temp drops rather quickley when going down hill, this stat may be questionable as well, or it could just be that it's getting a bit chilly out..
Downhill my EGT is <150, with nothing preventing airflow through the radiator, and the heater on, I think it should drop pretty fast.
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Awesome. I *hope* your fix lasts forever. Great job on having the testicular fortitude to attempt.
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Todd,
I've been torn between jb weld and just plain ole aluminum weld.. Maybe I'll just try both, I have plenty of housings... My luck in the past with drilling and tapping JB weld has been poor at best, I usually end of breaking it.. I guess a tad more patience is in order...
Folks, let's still treat this as a potential epic fail.. I don;t wanna jinx it..
The guys at the machine shop don't even want remotely associated with this abortion, although they did give me the rods... However, 90 miles on the same coolant.. No coolant loss, no over heating, no signs of oil...
I guess I have been running the detergents for quite some time.. I guess the head showed no signs since it's been coated in the oil floating up top, and it's a better grade of aluminum than the water pump housing... Geez, I wonder what the rad and heater core look like? I have the WVO heat exchangers removed to go take a bath in the hot tank to remove the goo...
The temp will drop down to about 140 at times.. Then again I guess it has always done that.. Just gotten worse in teh last year.. Gotta give her hell to keep it warm, what a shame... Once thing noticiably different is that I FINALLY have some heat.. The stat I have in there now is a mystery stat out of my pile of junk... It's a 180F, gonna grab a 190 for it tomorrow when I flush the coolant and try some antifreeze in it..
I really wish I would have done this in the summer months.. I'd like to push it hard on a hot day and see what happens.. That and I wouldn't have to worry about wasting antifreeze if it left go.. ::) The best part is I'm not out a whole lot if it doesn;t hold.. The head gasket and welding rods were freebies.. I already had the reusable v/c gasket and head studs.. I bought oil and filter, heat shields, hylomar, gallon of antifreeze, t-stat, had the jb weld on hand.. I guess I also had a water pump in there too, although that wasn;t all that necessary with the corrosion I figured it couldn;t hurt.. The engine was junk when I drove it in the garage... Worst case scenario, it would still be junk when I pushed it out.. It may still be junk, time will tell, and AAA is there if time tells me it is.. ;D
I had promised some pics of the finished block deck earlier.. You can sort of see the pits I filled in with JB weld.. Some of those were actually there before the grinding and welding....
(http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm124/maxfax3/VW/DSCF1957.jpg)
(http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm124/maxfax3/VW/DSCF1958.jpg)
(http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm124/maxfax3/VW/DSCF1959.jpg)
(http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm124/maxfax3/VW/DSCF1960.jpg)
(http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm124/maxfax3/VW/DSCF1961.jpg)
Funny thing, I see in the 2nd to last pic I have a torn boot on the steering rack, that's the first I noticed.. :-[
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I was going to mention that torn boot :P
Looking good. I hope you keep us posted on mileage and progress. I really wonder how long a fix like this can last. The fact that it even started, let alone drove is amazing.
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It's in need of struts again too so I guess I'll have a steering and suspension day coming up in the future....
So far I have 173 Miles on it.. I've had it over two mountains twice now... Maintaining a min sped of 45 mph was pretty taxing on the little bugger.. Temp hit 210 at the upper radiator hose but never over, and came right back down...
I did a flush and put a new t-stat and green stuff in it today.. We'll see how that Advance Auto special stat holds up.. I noticed a bit of hazy scum in the expansion tank before I drained the water.. I suspect it's just old oil still working it's way out of everything.. I should have sprung for new hoses, or at least swapped them out with ones from one of the parts cars.. I did try to clean the upper and low rad hoses but once that oil gets to them it's a bear to get out... I'm not sure when to make the call between new oil getting in the cooling system, and old oil still working out.. I guess when there is a slick in the tank I'll know it's new oil...
I intended to remove the expansion tank to clean it out good and managed to brake the hose nipple of the bottom.. Might be time to spring for a new one of these.. I've about used up all the ones I had from parts cars... I guess this will give me some time to play with the timing a little bit.. I though I had it set at .98 before but it doesn;t seem as clattery or peppy as it was before.. I may have just set it by ear the last time too.. Can't remember for sure..
Since all I really did was weld the ends of the cracks, and smear the length of them with JB weld there's always going to be that risk that one or all of them are going to crack further.. It did made it quite a while with nothing done to them so I guess we'll see what happens.. I'll keep you all posted... In the mean time I'm going to go motor about on the ice on diesel power once again.. ;D
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I'm impressed- didn't know you could do half of that and get away with it.
I can see the ad now,
...maxfax, preferred mechanic for the apocalypse... ;)
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I guess I've gotten away with doing worse things, and I've had better things blow up in my face.. ??? I'm feelin kinda lucky right now though.. Maybe I'll tackle one of the other problem children around here..
AS far as the status on the bubble gum mobile, I puttered it around locally for the last couple days.. Got my mits on a good expansion tank now so I can remove the one with the brake line glued in the hole where the small return nipple was.. ::)
No signs of oil as of yet, temp still holding good, no odd pressure or coolant loss.. I'm feeling confident (or stupid) enough to put her back to work on the 100 mile a day journey... I may look into getting a Triple A membership.... ;)
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I may look into getting a Triple A membership.... ;)
AAA is definitely worth it. I've been towed 3x (3 different vehicles) and one tow was just under 100 miles. Definitely worth the $75 I paid. I'm allowed 1 more service call for the year.
Start on that T-stat elbow, yet?
-Todd
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Knock wood I've never broken down to the point that I couldn;t get going again, or I was close enough to someone I know that could hook to me and drag me somewhere.. But as of late I've been venturing around to new and exciting places, well at least new anyhow... I never realized all the other perks and discounts with a membership though.. The free title transfers would make it worth my while ;D..
AS far as the t-stat drain.. Well I've found a few housings.. Around here that's 3/4 of the battle.. I have them cleaned up but I have some paying type work in the shop now so I should probably get to that first.. :-\
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I'm not sure if the title transfers would work in NJ; Motor Vehicle Commission is state owned. No Photo-Mat title places here.
I need to explore what my membership offers. I hear there are some decent discounts, although 1 tow would have been the annual $75 fee, so I can't complain.
-Todd
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Sometimes crazy works, the rest of the time it's just plain fun.. Can;t say this worked yet though.. Needs to make it a few more miles and through a retorque......
Todd, you got me motivated! :P I made a t-stat housing with a drain.. I used the aluminum arc welding rods and built it up as I had mentioned.. Worked good.. WOuld look better if I could weld, or if I would have taken more than a half hour to make it.. I didn;t have a plug here the proper size, do I have a brass nipple screwed in there for the pics.. Definitely using brass though.. I'd hate to have to end up removing the housing to drain the thing cause the stupid plug got too tight...
(http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm124/maxfax3/t-stat%20drain/DSCF1987.jpg)
More pics here http://s295.photobucket.com/albums/mm124/maxfax3/t-stat%20drain/ (http://s295.photobucket.com/albums/mm124/maxfax3/t-stat%20drain/)
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thats a great idea!
I have often cursed the vw engineers for not putting a drain in the cooling system, makes for very messy repairs.
my apartment manager would probably appreciate me being able to drain the coolant without getting half of it on the ground ;D
I might do this to the diesel G60.
do you think adding material is really necessary?
what if a small valve was installed so the fitting would not have to be removed to drain, would just drilling and tapping be sufficient then?
and on the topic of the welded block, that is so super cool!
makes some of what I do reasonable!
-Owen
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Good show! Just goes to show you that owning a welder doesn't make you a welder. I am a master with a grinder and 24 grit Rolocs, though.
LMK how nice it is, draining the coolant with that. I need to get one done, so I can swap it the next time I drain my system.
-Todd
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I was taught to weld by my dad, a farmer.. The mentality is that it doesn;t have to be pretty, it has to hold and get the job done.. Of course he can weld a rusty piece of junk together and make it look like it's supposed to be that way... In my defense, aluminum is a ______ to weld with an arc welder, especially old aluminum.. The rods don;t keep well either.. I only buy a few at a time and keep them sealed in a plastic container, but still they corode and the flux falls off.. I swear the only keep for a few months...
I like the idea of a valve.. ANd if one were to use a valve the extra material may not be necessary.. That housing is rather thin, but if one isn;t screwing a plug in and out of it all the time It might just work okay.. I felt better haveing a little thicker area to work with, plus it have me a nice flat surface to drill..
I still like Fatmobile's idea.. I may do that to my new engine with the drain in the stat housing..
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And once again I repeat... ;)
Hey, I salute your work... It's your time to do with as you wish. If it's wasted oh well, atleast you tried. I would likely do the same since sometimes half the fun is doing the work even if it fails. ANYBODY can replace parts..... FEW can save them... ;D
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600 Miles down.. 400 till retorque!!! 8) It got up to about 45F today so I took it romping through the junk yard.. Pushed it pretty hard a few times to get out of icy ruts.. Temp hold good, no coolant loss, starts good down to 18F.. I really wish I would have put a block heater in this car though.. Instant heat woudl be sweet.. Next engine I guess.. Power and economy seem a bit off.. I haven't played with the timing yet, I'll do that at the retorque.. COuld be the cooler weather too.. I still notice some oily residue in the expansion tank.... Very little in comparison to what it was before all of this.. Might still be residual oil in the system.. I did run it for quite some time with it spewing oil in there.. I may drain the coolant again and give it another good flush...
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Good job.... the results so far seem promising. I can only imagine that they'll be plenty fine for a generator/welder.
600 miles so far? Wow, you drive a lot; I can see why you burn alternate fuels.
-Todd
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I feel that even if it's still getting a slight amount of oil in the coolant it will be adequate for my plans.. Heck I drove the car for about 2 years when it spewed it much worse.. I did come up with an idea just to see if I do still have this problem.. I have some of that U/V dye that one can dump in a trans, power steering, or engine oil to check for leaks.. Theroetically if it is new oil going into the coolant, with the dye it should glow under the black light...
The alt fuels are a blessing on top of the great diesel milage.. I have a 32 mile drive to work, couple that with several service calls, and a drive home it doesn;t take long.... Once upon a time my DD was a 79 Lincoln with a 460cid.. What a great ride that was, but it was rather costly too.....
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I just bought a 95 golf TD, and have a question. What is the cause of the cracks in the block? Is it fairly common in diesel engines? Yes i am new to this, just wondering.
thanks
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Block heaters don't quite give instant heat, if you use it on a warm day then it might but then of course it's not necessary. With using the block heater, at 0F it takes about a half mile at most for the heater to start blowing heated air.
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Gribur,
The earlier VW diesels (pre 1982ish) used smaller headbolts than the later engines.. The bolts were a bit on the short side.. Couple that with a weak block to begin with and you have cracks, sometime lots of them.. Any VW diesel made after 1982ish used larger stretch bolts and didn;t have this problem.. If you'd like more details on this check out
http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=21948.0 (http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=21948.0)
Rabbitman,
All depends on the block heater.. The wussy little thing that VW used doesn;t do too much for instant heat.. But big assed tank style heaters will... ;D I can't remeber the make or model, but I had one on my old Torino.. I went to the AP and told them to give me the biggest monstor they had. ::) If I'd park that car with the defrost on, plug in the heater, enough heat woudl radiate from the vents to keep the ice off the windshield.. And the heat was pretty much instant even in the neg temps.. Granted it wasn;t hot, but it was quite a bit warmer than the ambient air.. At the time my drive to work was 6 miles. It would just be getting warm when I got to work.. Now think big cushy vinyl seats in 10F weather.. :o Seat covers woudl have probably been simpler, but it helped my average mpg's big time and paid off..
I'm actually planning on using the heater from the Torino on the Rabbit.. Generally it'll be overkill, but with the aux electric water pump and such I'm hoping to warm the WVO a bit with it and hopefully switch over from diesel sooner...
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can I get a part no. on that heater and where to get it, I will need it for my build. The reason I say this is that my 1.6 disp. aaz head IDI MONSTER will have low static compression and I will need an alternative for cold days. Good job on the repair, I hope all is well.
Thanks, and Merry Christmas,
Kevin
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Here is about what I used.. I know it was a Zerostart like this one.. I'll bet about the same model...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ZEROSTART-1000W-120V-engine-pre-heater-block-heater_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem2ea9f59e15QQitemZ200419941909QQptZLHQ5fDefaultDomainQ5f100 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ZEROSTART-1000W-120V-engine-pre-heater-block-heater_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem2ea9f59e15QQitemZ200419941909QQptZLHQ5fDefaultDomainQ5f100)
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:o1000w would easily do it. Here's what I've got, not sure how many watts this or mine is though.....
http://www.partsgeek.com/catalog/1982/volkswagen/rabbit/fluids-fs-manuals-fs-misc/block_heater_kit.html (http://www.partsgeek.com/catalog/1982/volkswagen/rabbit/fluids-fs-manuals-fs-misc/block_heater_kit.html)
I can start up at -50F with this and 100w oil pan heater.
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1000w was definitely overkill for the Torino, and will be hella overkill on the Rabbit.. But if it can help warm up the WVO I'm all about it.... I've been able to start this car down to -18F with no heater.. It wasn't happy, but it did it.. Normally we don;t see much below the teens so that bugger ought to keep it nice and toasty.. Just not sure how I want to mount and plumb it yet... It's getting kinda full under the hood...
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not to get too off topic here, but I plan on using both the oil pan heater and the 1000 block heater in my it was gracious of you to go out of the way to give the info on the 1000W one but hows about the oil heater too please? :-* just a thought but you could do the plumbing in the cabin "since it's for heat anyway" you could make it easy to de-install and the wiring could be pretty simple that way too. Also use an simple egg timer to the time before you leave for work and viola! instant heat without having to leave it plugged in all night. ;D good luck
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The thing with that particular type of heater is for it to work properly, the inlet needs to be as low if not lower than the lowest part of the cooling system.. Now since I have an aux electric water pump This probably wouldn't be as crucial.. I may actually mount the WVO heat exchangers under the passenger dash so they aren't out there under the hood exposed to all the air blowing though.. ..
I'm not sure exactly what type of oil heater Rabbitman is using.. The most common ones I have seen are magnetic and jsut stick to the bottom of the pan.. You must remove them before driving of course....
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http://www.warehouseautoparts.com/Specialty_Line/Kat/Kats_24150_Silicone_hotpad_oilpan_heater.htm (http://www.warehouseautoparts.com/Specialty_Line/Kat/Kats_24150_Silicone_hotpad_oilpan_heater.htm)
Mine doesn't have the sticky backing though, this one's 150w but 100w would work fine.
Napa, carquest any of those should have 'em or at least be able to get 'em.
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900 Miles in as of yesterday.. Still some goo in the expansion tank, but no signs of the fluorescent dye.. Even if it still is getting new oil in the coolant, it is MUCH slower than it was..
So I was taking a spin to Lewistown in it yesterday.. Probably about 30 miles.. Of course this was 30 miles with a stong head wind on the highway, and a few decent hills.. I was pushing it pretty hard.. Since my confidience in it has grown I was actually watching the road more than the temp gauge.. I was just about ready to get off at my exit and glanced at the aftermarket temp gauge that takes it's reading from the neck for the upper rad hose.. 250 F !! Factory gauge is slightly below the first red mark..
I shut her down, coasted off the road.. Felt pretty sure it was toast.. Took a look under the hood, the heater hose was leaking where it slid on the valve.. More inspection revealed, I FORGOT TO TIGHTEN THE CLAMP! Yep, it held for 900 miles like that.. Stuck the hose back on, and tightened the clamp this time.. Fortunately I was not too overly confident that I still had several jugs of water with me.. Fired it back up, topped off the cooling system.. GOLDEN! I managed to put another 100 miles on it from then.. I'll be doing my retorqe tonight or tomorrow..
Still gotta toy with my timing some more too.. It starts well, but still lacks the power it had... THe milage is down about 7mpg too...
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So i Think after holding up 900 miles, this goes from Epic Fail.. to a normal Fail??
Good work Brett :P
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I guess this could qualify as normal fail..
Still don;t know about the oil thing.. I haven;t suctioned the oil out of the tank for several hundred miles.. I could just be residual oil still working it's way out.. I did give it a good flushing before I put antifreeze back in after the epic failure of not tightening the heater hose :-[. I guess we'll have to wait and see what floats to the top.....
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If you're not seeing dye, I wouldn't think it's getting past.
The decreased mileage could be attributed to the fact that it's cold as hell, your timing is off and you were burning a lot of WMO, too.
I saw a decrease of about 5 mpg when it started getting really cold.... is that normal?
-Todd
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If you're not seeing dye, I wouldn't think it's getting past.
That's what I'm thinking.. I don;t know if the antifreeze would do anything odd to the dye or not...
The weather went from 40's and 50's to teens and 20's the week I did this.. However I only really check my milage during the cold weather when I can;t be running WVO and WMO and all that stuff.. So I don;t really know what exactly I was getting pre-bubblegum as it was still warm enough to run the cheap stuff....
Last winter I was averaging around 43mpg under these conditions.. Lately I've been getting about 36.. I know the timing isn't what it was.. It just plain doesn;t sound the same.. My injectors are much older than I remembered too.. About 140K miles since they were rebuilt.. And they have been spraying all sorts of nasty stuff for more than half of those miles.. I need to give my main man Marvin a jingle and see if he can get me a couple sets rebuilt.. I need some for the new engine too..
This would be the first in I don;t know how long that I have absolutely no fuel leaks, maybe my expectations are just off..
5 mpg drop sounds about right for cold weather on winter fuel...
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ooh, hook me up with marvins info, I need a set of rebuild 1.5 injectors too, no time to rebuild em' myself :-[
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buy some new ones. someone on here was just saying about how you can get new bosch units for 42 bucks and some change each. just put some 1.6 turbo injectors in it. your using a turbo pump anyway.
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It probably wouldn;t be all that cost effective to ship a set of injectors all the way here and back for a rebuild.. I already have a few sets of nozzels (but no friggen heat shields on hand!?!).. I need to get myself a pop tester made.. But then again when he'll throw me a set of injectors together for $20 (me providing the parts of course) I'm not overly motivated to make one.. We throw a bunch of work each other's way, it works out nice...
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kidding, no jack intended, and also very good to know.
thanks
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A little over 1300 miles in..
I've been dumping, cleaning, and refilling the expansion tank on a weekly basis.. No signs of the UV dye I put in the engine oil.. The amount of oil does seem to be dwindling.. Fingers crossed...
I finally got around to playing with the timing.. I timed it by ear, and a tad of trial and error, mileage and power are back where it was pre bubble gum. Once I got it there I threw the gauge on it just to see where this one likes to run.. Seems pretty happy at 1.02mm..
Now the question remains, how long coudl I push this thing in my daily driver??? ???
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I don;t know if the antifreeze would do anything odd to the dye or not...
Could you throw some dye in some antifreeze and see what happens?
Glad to see she's still running
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I did try mixing some of the dye and antifreeze together.. Since the dye is petrolium based it didn't mix real well, the dye just kinda floated on the top.. It did still react to the black light though.. The antifreeze does to a certain degree as well. I should try heating the mix and see what happens..
Of course I don;t know if it'll make much difference.. I pulled my dipstick and sutck it under the black light.. The dye doesn't show up so well in black diesel oil.. Maybe I'll try a double dose and see what happens...
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I don`t know this product http://www.heal-a-seal.com/ (http://www.heal-a-seal.com/) can this help or another snake oil?
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WOW! :'( the previous owner of my car used this, I don't know if it helped because my H/G is currently off and the coolant is completely drained, but I remember the previous owner mentioning something like this. wish I could give a good product review :(
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I've actually had hit or miss luck with these various sealers.. Or if nothing else they woudl work temporarily.. Still not sure if I am getting new oil in the coolant.. THe amount of oil is decreasing, so it just may be oil from before I tried fixing this..
THe problem in the scenario is that the oil is under higher pressure than the coolant.. Most of these sodium silicate based sealers are added to the coolant and have to push their way thought he leak.. In this case the oil would be pusing it's way to the coolant.. And I think we all know what sodium silcate does to an engine when added to oil.. (C.A.R.S. anyone?)
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one time, my buddy used to have a nissan pickup, and it had a pretty bad low spot in the deck of the block, but the engine still ran REALLY good, so we decided to just try and do the head gasket to get it to stop leakin, no luck. so, on the 3rd head gasket, we decided to smear aviation sealer on the deck and on the head. then we torqued everything down and fired it up with no water in the block till there was aviation sealer running down the sides of the block. needless to say, it heald water just fine till he got rid of it. that fix lasted atleast 3 years. i just highly doubt that anyone is ever gonna get that engine apart again. the head is as close to welded on as we could get it, haha.
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2500 Miles down..
I think I'm at the point where I can call "FAIL" to a certain degree.. I can;t see any signs of dye in the coolant, but then again it doesn't show up in black diesel oil either.. Still getting a slight bit of oil in the coolant..
I would think by this point residual oil should be pretty well worked out... I would say I'm still getting a fraction of an ounce per tank of fuel or 450 miles.. I can pretty much tilt the expansion tank and sop the oil out with a paper towel through the fill...
It's definitly MUCH less than it used to be, but I *think* it still happening.. My guess is the oil is making it's way past the threads on the stud and leaking out the lower end of the hole where I couldn't do much for the crack, other than slather JB weld on it.. I used Hylomar as a thread sealer, perhaps a more robust thread sealer (jb weld ;D) would have helped..
I'm going to give it about another month in the car before I swap engines so maybe It'll prove me wrong.. Either way I'm not unhappy about the results.. It'll be more than adequate to power my welder/generator..
On another subject, any opinions on running an air compressor off the front of the crank?? I swiped the compressor and tanks off a truck and will have plenty of room to mount it on this rig... It's the earlier style crank with the key for the TB sprocket..
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Why not run the compressor off the back of the crank? You could bolt a couple pulleys on there and run the generator and compressor, unless the generator is gonna bolt straight up.
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I can;t remember which company built them but I've seen compressors setup like that using a Ford 5.0 ... 4 cyls ran and 4 compressed.. Very slick indeed.. 800psi might be a bit much for my air nailers though.. ;D I guess for the smoothest operation either cyls 1 & 3 or 2 & 4 should do the running... This would be the engine to use as a lab rat, nothing seems to kill it...
AS it is now the generator bolts straight to the engine.. For the sake of simplicity it would be nice to run the compressor off the front, but since that is a weak point I'm leary.. I haven;t worked out all the mounting details yet, but I have considered still mounting a pulley to the back of the engine to run the compressor, and then coupling the generator thought the pulley.. It would be a bit more involved, and a pain if I had to ever change the compressor belt, but probably they way to go as far as things holding together...
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An AC compressor is pumping out about the same pressure as an air compressor would be, so the crank nose should definitely be strong enough to power a compressor...
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I've considered welding on a junk cam and then grinding down to make two more lobes for two of the cylinders 180° out of the existing cam lobes. That way the four strokes would be intake open, exhaust open, intake open, exhaust open. Then remove those two metal injection lines and add rubber lines to those two delivery valves to return the fuel right to the fuel return line. Voila, a two cylinder air compressor powered by a two cylinder diesel. ;D You could even run the exhaust from one of the compressor cylinders into the intake of the other cylinder and have a two stage compressor at some 7-800 psi of outlet pressure. :o Then run the generator off the flywheel end and just freewheel the air compressor when running the generator.
there were kits for aircooled vw's that came with a cam to do just that to a 1600cc aircooled vw.
I almosst did that to my old beetle before it got junked
-Owen
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An AC compressor is pumping out about the same pressure as an air compressor would be, so the crank nose should definitely be strong enough to power a compressor...
That was sort of my line of thinking.. I'm sure this truck compressor would probably take a bit more oomph to spin as the internals are heavier, but it wouldn't be cycling like an a/c compressor..
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If you have an AC compressor you don't particularly care about it will work just fine as an air compressor, at least for a while. I have one on my pickup - it happily fills a tank under the bed to 150PSI no problem, reasonably fast too.
The big thing is you're not feeding any oil to the compressor - when it's being used in an AC system there's an oil charge in with the refrigerant. But mine's been going for a while, so YMMV. I don't think junkyard AC compressors are all that expensive, especially if you rig up a GM or Ford one that you can find anywhere. A regular air compressor pressure switch connected to the AC clutch works great too - it'll cycle the compressor on and off to keep the tank full.
But if you've already got the truck compressor I'd probably just go with that - it'll undoubtedly last a WHOLE lot longer!
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The old York A/C compressors (Ford used them alot as well as alot of tractors) are a piston compressor with the capability of holding oil in the crank case.. Had I not gotten the truck compressor, eventually I may have though of mounting one of those on... Dad put on on his '79 F-250 shortly after he bought it.. Working dandy for almost 30 years...
THe compressor was totally an after thought.. Originally I was gonna run my little compressor off the generator for when I start renovating the house.. I swapped an engine from a bus with air brakes to a flatbed without a few weeks ago and had the leftover compressor and tanks. THe light kicked on, "Why not run a compressor off the diesel too!"
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I am currently sitting on a air brake pump off a CAT overland truck.
my summertime boss was recycling the motor for scrap iron, and I liberated the pump after work one night.
I had hoped to install it for onboard air, but there is no more room under my hood anymore, so...
I really wish I had a shop(or even a yard/driveway) as I have a spare diesel motor as well, they would make one hell of a compressor if put together, but alas, I have no space for them, the spare motor is sitting in a buddies shop, and the air brake pump is in a crate in the bottom of a closet in my tiny apartment.
I guess my point is I ENVY YOU! ;D
maybe someday...
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I have an old york I pulled it from my 54' savoy's trunk. I think that the previous owner was going to put airbags on the car. Anyone interested? :P To stay on topic here, I think you should really sit back and enjoy what you have accomplished, whether you decide to keep driving it or converted it to a compressor, or to just drive a compressor, or alternator/generator, or both you have completed no easy feat. Congratulations, and god bless. 8)
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I guess my point is I ENVY YOU! ;D
I admit it, I'm spoiled!! ;D With the parent's farm (and VERY understanding parents), the shop, and now my little plot of earth I can drag junk in till I'm blue in the face.. :o Although it still get's cluttered (More space = More junk), I have some pretty cool toys and tons of spare parts.... .. This welder generator was a freebie.. THe construction company was going to junk it because it was old, and the motor is shot.. At the time I had no use for it, but it was FREE.. Now that I have the house it has a purpose.. (And if you all think I was nuts for fixing that engine, you should see my house!!! http://s295.photobucket.com/albums/mm124/maxfax3/stonehouse/ (http://s295.photobucket.com/albums/mm124/maxfax3/stonehouse/))
I think you should really sit back and enjoy what you have accomplished
I have to a degree.. Still pretty tickled about it.. But I still have that constant fear of "when's it gonna let go".. I haven;t been driving the car too awfully far because of that.. I already had another engine in the works for it, and with this pending house nightmare I'm not going to have time or funds to be messing with the VW too much so I gotta have the ducks in a row...
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that is a ***IN old house. really cool...
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3100 miles ish.. Driving home last night.. Up the mountain as usual.. Feeling pretty confident again I wasn;t religously watching the temp gauge.. Smelled a hint of antifreeze and looked down.. 250F on the mech gauge, factory gauge heading for red again.. CRAP!
Got her off the road, shut it down.. This has to be the end of it.. It just has to.. The rather oil soaked upper hose that I was too cheap to replace (didn;t have a used one laying around) split open.. Keep in mind it's 4am so not alot of people I can call at this hour, and I'm 12 miles from home.. (I'll be so glad when my house is done and I'll be in walking distance of the shop)
I've been carrying gallons of water for just in case.. However due to the cold weather they have been blocks of ice for days.. Luckily the warmer temps yesterday were just enough to partially thaw 2 gallons... The hose was split too badly to just cut it off, and I only had bits of heater hose and a bypass hose in the car.. But to my relief there was Gorilla tape.. Amazing stuff!! Wrapped the hose, had just enough water thawed out to top off the cooling system.. Left the cap loose and drove home.. And drive 40 miles (back over the mountain) to the shop. And drive 15 miles to advance auto.. THey didn;t have the correct hose, but we found one that would work. :)
Just fired the engine from cold a few mins ago.. No instant pressure on the cooling system, no bubbles in the tank... No overheat issues with the system pressurized.. And it's used less than a cup of oil in the above mileage..
To review: 1980 1.5 Block and head came from a car with 446,000 miles on the clock (the odometer was broken, could be more) when it was run low on oil and the crank was trashed... Head was redone, block was only cleaned.. Rotating assembly from a 1981 1.6 that had a cracked cylinder wall (it froze).. Grant rings, Clevite bearings (with one piece thrust).. And due to the lack of knowledge at the time new head bolts.. 40K (running wvo) and the HG blew.. Block was cracked but I threw studs and a gasket at it anyhow.. 140,000 Miles later (burning more WVO and some WMO and god knows what else along with oil going into the coolant) the HG lets go again.. Block gets bubble gummed together, slathered with JB weld and Hylomar with a new HG.. 3100 miles later after being overheated TWICE it's still going.. It's outlived 1 5 speed and a 4 speed in the 1980 Rabbit.. And 2 going on 3 5 speeds in my '81..
I'm having this engine bronzed!
that is a ***IN old house. really cool...
It's just a baby.. At this point we guestimate it was built in the mid 1800's.. My parent's house across the street was built in 1782... :o
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wow, you have some crazy adventures.
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Everyone should weld their blocks and be immune to overheats!!! It would be nice if my stuff would work when it shouldn't rather than not work when it should ::)
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Everyday is an adventure Macka.. Most of which is brought on by myself.. And to think, I gave up working in a cubicle!!!
It would be nice if my stuff would work when it shouldn't rather than not work when it should ::)
I tend to get alot of the not work when it should.. Really agravating when I see some of the half arsed crap some into shop that is working fine.. Let's just say that I'm beyond exstatic when this cluster ____ had been working so long..
I have to wonder if the Hylomar is due some credit.. For the cost of the stuff it ought to do something amazing.. Reading up on it years ago they mention that it remains soft and has the capability of resealing itself.. I smeared a crapload on this thing, I guess it's not hurting...
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Dude, I'm coming up there and moving in. :D That is an awesome house, man.
I can pay my own way, I have carpentry and plumbing/electrical skills... :D
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I have carpentry and plumbing/electrical skills... :D
You've got 2 up on me.. Unless bending nails and creating leaks count as plumbing and carpentry skills. Luckily between my sister and father they can pick up my slack... I get to clean up, carry stuff, wire it, draw up the building plans, and foot the bill.. I have no reservations about taking an arc welder to my engine block but this project is something TOTALLY out of my realm.. I felt the need for a new challenge a guess.. Now to figure out where to put a bathroom.. Laws prohibit renovating the outhouse for use.. >:(
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:D I'm proficient in stick framing and trim; I don't do roofing (though I can).
110 and 220v service is within my skillset, basic wiring, switches, lights... I can do toilets and sinks, hot and cold water systems, but I'm not very good at calculating fall for sewage lines.
I'm looking to add TIG to my range of skills this coming summer. :D
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I'm lucky in some aspects.. Dad had a new steel roof put on (rafters and all) back in the mid 80's.. THere was a septic system installed at the same time.. All nice and legal too, the regs weren't so strict back then..
TIG as in welding?? THat's something I'd like to work on myself. I'm finding more and more aluminum things that I need to weld.. THose aluminum rods for the arc welder work, but not real well.. I also need to work on may lave skills.. I've dabbled with it, but never made anything that needed to be real precise.. I need to get dad to guide me a bit on running the thing while I still have that opportunity....
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Well, I guess we can call this the end.... about 12,000 miles it lived.. Though 2 overheats too... It's back to spewing oil to the coolant just like it was before... Right on cue too.. I picked up the head for the new engine just a few days ago and it's been riding in the back seat..
My suspicion is that the oil is not going past the gasket, but around the threads on the stud and out the lower half of the crack... From past experience when the gasket has leaked there is alot more oil than I'm getting, and/or it also leaks externally.... No external leaks and probably not more than an ounce or so of oil leaks into the coolant per tank of fuel (or about 460 miles right now).. I'm still actually driving the car, just not my usual hundreds of miles a day... No compression in the coolant, I checked the studs with the torque wrench and nothing has worked loose so it'll still work for what I have planned for it... I'm almost tempted to pull that stud, clean the hole, and put in back in there with some variety of nasty heavy duty thread sealer... Any suggestions??
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I'm looking to add TIG to my range of skills this coming summer. :D
Once you do, you'll wonder how anyone could weld with a stick or gas again !! :-) Like the difference between building a house with hand tools 100 years ago and today's power tools. I have seen a master with gas to as good a job as TIG, but he was welding aircraft frames for decades.
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12000 miles with that many problems to start with and in only a couple of months...that is pretty amazing
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I sell this to many shops that work with hydraulics, air, and anything with fittings basically. I think it would work. It doesn't harden, but takes unreal abuse. I think if you are dealing with some oil pressure getting around the stud threads this would cure it if anything would.
Rite-Lok™ Hydraulic/Pneumatic Sealant HP45
Rite-Lok hydraulic and pipe sealants are designed for thread and pipe sealing, replacing traditional PTFE tapes and dopes. Products seal instantly and will not shred, evaporate or shrink. Rite-Lok hydraulic and pipe sealants resist pressure, vibration and temperature cycling as well as hydraulic fluids, oil, fuel and lubricants.
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Since I've been in the habit of responding to old topics lately :-[, time to dredge this one up again..
Maybe, JUST MAYBE the ole crackomatic isn't quite done yet.. ;D
I parked this thing back in June when the annual inspection expired.. The tires were bald, the struts, springs, brakes, and rotors were all shot.. It still ran okay other than a little oil getting in the coolant..
Brake and suspension upgrades are under way, I should have that done this afternoon.. Heck I've had all the parts well over a year now.. As far as the engine? Well, don't have time for that right now.. So upon Lucas's recommendation of the Rite-Lok stuff, I got my mits on some.. Pulled the offending stud, cleaned the hole with carb cleaner, a gun cleaning brush, and compressed air.. Slathered a bunch of the sealer on the stud, and slapped it back together for one last hooraw.. Or will it be the last? :-X
Okay, truth be told, I'm in a pinch and need an extra car, It'll have to do.. It's got one thing up on the Cutlass, it runs! 8)
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Bumping for GREAT JUSTICE....(and it's a damn fine story)
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Holy crap! Your house is straight out of Scooby Doo!
(http://yourbooksworld.com/images/Childrens/haunted-halloween-party-scooby-doo-reader.jpg)
Great story, cool house. :)