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General Information => General => Topic started by: 8v-of-fury on December 03, 2009, 06:50:50 pm

Title: You know what every mechanically inclined person hates??
Post by: 8v-of-fury on December 03, 2009, 06:50:50 pm: Brake Jobs. ;)

I totally am pro at mk1 drum brakes now. lol

I replaced axle to drum hard lines, cylinders, shoes and hardware. Bled them and voila brakes! however they are not as powerful as they should be. I think the remedy would be to bleed the fronts as well to eliminate any air in the system, as it is all one line.. one air bubble will cause them too all go soft right?

Question being, how do i loosen the front bleeder screws without destroying them and having to get new calipers? I have heard a few things.. like torching around the screw to expand the surrounding metal, but not too much heat so i don't fry the caliper seals. then going a bit forward on the screws, then a little more heat.. then backing them out.

thanks a lot guys.. Your expertise is greatly appreciated :)
Title: Re: You know what every mechanically inclined person hates??
Post by: truckinwagen on December 03, 2009, 06:56:29 pm: heat the bleeder screw until it is red and then give it a sharp tap on the end with a hammer.
let it cool and than repeat.

the bleeder will most likely need to be replaced at this point(should replace them anyway, with lots of anti-seize), but it should come out without too much issue.
Title: Re: You know what every mechanically inclined person hates??
Post by: burn_your_money on December 03, 2009, 07:34:30 pm: As long as your calipers have brake fluid in them you don't need to worry about overheating the bleeder
Title: Re: You know what every mechanically inclined person hates??
Post by: fatmobile on December 03, 2009, 09:47:20 pm: I spray PB blaster inside the bleeders to get it soaking from the inside.
I smack the area the bleeder screws into, trying to disshape the metal around it briefly to break corrosion.
I don't smack on the end of the bleeder very hard, it can make the bleeder weak where the threaded/hollow section meets the caliper.
I put a cut off allen wrench inside the bleeder hole and smack on that, putting the pressure at the bottom of the hole and getting it to the lower threads.
Title: Re: You know what every mechanically inclined person hates??
Post by: 8v-of-fury on December 04, 2009, 05:12:47 am: you know what i was thinking.. if the wheel cylinders started to leak.. and i caught it before i drained the master.. should there even be any air in the front brakes? I only had to bleed a couple pumps to get a solid stream from each of the cylinders...

maybe there is another issue?
Title: Re: You know what every mechanically inclined person hates??
Post by: anto on December 04, 2009, 07:21:54 am: Re loosening seized bleed screws/bolts etc

A sharp hit with a hammer and blunt chisel will usually free it along with some wd40/ penetrating fluid.
Dont beat the life out of it though!!!!
Title: Re: You know what every mechanically inclined person hates??
Post by: 745 turbogreasel on December 04, 2009, 02:59:28 pm: Quote from: 8v-of-fury on December 04, 2009, 05:12:47 am
you know what i was thinking.. if the wheel cylinders started to leak.. and i caught it before i drained the master.. should there even be any air in the front brakes? I only had to bleed a couple pumps to get a solid stream from each of the cylinders...

maybe there is another issue?

Correct...did you adjust the rear shoes?
Title: Re: You know what every mechanically inclined person hates??
Post by: 8v-of-fury on December 04, 2009, 04:55:35 pm: adjust the rear shoes in the form of backing up an abruptly hitting the brakes?

I was up there today and i was driving it around on the logging roads for about two hours.. its not as peppy as my 1.7 but its pretty good for an N/a diesel lol. However the brakes were harder to push, if u did push them like they were manual brakes it would bring it self to a stop from 70mph in a short time. Why would this be?
Title: Re: You know what every mechanically inclined person hates??
Post by: burn_your_money on December 04, 2009, 06:45:14 pm: Are your rotors rusty?
Title: Re: You know what every mechanically inclined person hates??
Post by: 745 turbogreasel on December 04, 2009, 06:58:47 pm: Self adjusters are the worst part of modern braking systems, and haven't progressed since the 60's.
To work, they need to be clean, complete, and not seized. (visual inspection, a bit of manual fiddling, and maybe a spot of syn grease)
Adding to this, most will not function unless they are in range(pretty close to ajusted).
Your adjuster should be parking brake actuated.

First, spin the starwheels on these http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180266343779&crlp=1_263602_263622&ff4=263602_263622&viewitem=&guid=324e89dc1250a02682675ca7ffae5e25&rvr_id=&ua=WXF%3F&itemid=180266343779 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180266343779&crlp=1_263602_263622&ff4=263602_263622&viewitem=&guid=324e89dc1250a02682675ca7ffae5e25&rvr_id=&ua=WXF%3F&itemid=180266343779) till there is some drag on the brake, step on the pedal to center the shoes, check for drag, repeat till you do have drag. Back off 3 clicks or so. (also check that the cliker works freely.

More detail here if this makes no sense: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=382823 (http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=382823)
Title: Re: You know what every mechanically inclined person hates??
Post by: burn_your_money on December 04, 2009, 07:05:56 pm: Are you sure a 84 will have that style of adjuster? I've never seen that one before. I'm familiar with the wedge attached to a spring that you can't access with the drum installed.
Title: Re: You know what every mechanically inclined person hates??
Post by: 8v-of-fury on December 04, 2009, 07:20:22 pm: rotors have a little bit of rust on them.. but I was driving them clean today lol

Um yes it has the sliding wedge with the spring attaching it to the bottom of one of the shoes.

The car is now parked for winter :( I will resume work in the spring.. sadly I did not get it ready for winter.. All that work for nothing too eh?
Title: Re: You know what every mechanically inclined person hates??
Post by: burn_your_money on December 04, 2009, 07:22:41 pm: Quote from: 8v-of-fury on December 04, 2009, 07:20:22 pm

The car is now parked for winter :( I will resume work in the spring.. sadly I did not get it ready for winter.. All that work for nothing too eh?

I'm confused ??? It hasn't snowed yet has it... has it?? ;D
Title: Re: You know what every mechanically inclined person hates??
Post by: 8v-of-fury on December 04, 2009, 07:31:03 pm: We up here are/were in a severe snow storm watch :o

Girlfriend's mom needs it parked in a certain spot for snow removal purposes of her driveway.. and i wont be able to get the car there if 15cm's drop over the next week when i have no time to work on it :( it breaks my heart.
Title: Re: You know what every mechanically inclined person hates??
Post by: burn_your_money on December 04, 2009, 07:34:05 pm: You could give it to me. I'll fix it all up and drive it around and stuff. You know, show it a good time. I might even take some pictures and post them for you to see :)
Title: Re: You know what every mechanically inclined person hates??
Post by: 8v-of-fury on December 04, 2009, 07:35:38 pm: Aren't you in the process of selling one? lol I've already done the hard stuff.. you'd just get to drive it lol.

OH! the pump head o ring.. the leak slowed by ~%66.6! It went from a drop every 4 seconds to a drop ever 12-13 seconds weird eh? lol

IT runs like a raped ape. I love diesels. I could be driving it right now if i really wanted.. but I'm just not ready to give up all the other goodies I already put in my other car lol. Stereo, subwoofers, lights in the trunk (awesome idea BTW), mk2 seats, mk3 wiper motor. I mean I can swap it all over.. but before the snow comes !?
Title: Re: You know what every mechanically inclined person hates??
Post by: rabbitman on December 04, 2009, 07:49:14 pm: Quote from: burn_your_money on December 04, 2009, 07:05:56 pm
Are you sure a 84 will have that style of adjuster? I've never seen that one before. I'm familiar with the wedge attached to a spring that you can't access with the drum installed.

The style in the ebay link was for the real old mk1's, the wedge style works perdy good. If they get too tight for some reason you just pop a lug bolt out, stick a screwdriver in the right spot and shove the wedge back up. ;D......everyone new that though. ::)
Title: Re: You know what every mechanically inclined person hates??
Post by: 8v-of-fury on December 04, 2009, 08:06:37 pm: Quote from: rabbitman on December 04, 2009, 07:49:14 pm
Quote from: burn_your_money on December 04, 2009, 07:05:56 pm
Are you sure a 84 will have that style of adjuster? I've never seen that one before. I'm familiar with the wedge attached to a spring that you can't access with the drum installed.

The style in the ebay link was for the real old mk1's, the wedge style works perdy good. If they get too tight for some reason you just pop a lug bolt out, stick a screwdriver in the right spot and shove the wedge back up. ;D......everyone new that though. ::)

It's always good to reiterate though lol. Yeah i was looking at that link thinking.. "what the hell are these for?!" haha I can't really think of what the problem is..

what were you getting at Tyler about the rotors being rusty? whats it bring to the table?
Title: Re: You know what every mechanically inclined person hates??
Post by: 8v-of-fury on December 04, 2009, 08:11:42 pm: Quote from: 8v-of-fury on December 04, 2009, 08:06:37 pm

what were you getting at Tyler about the rotors being rusty? whats it bring to the table?

I just did some research.. would pitting on the rotors really reduce that much of braking power? It has some grooves in it.. no doubt they need replacing.. would they effect it enough to cause you to have push that much harder?
Title: Re: You know what every mechanically inclined person hates??
Post by: rabbitman on December 04, 2009, 08:25:23 pm: I would put my bet on the vacuum pump diaphragm being torn slightly. Pop the vac hose off and stick your finger over the end, it should have vacuum.

When it's running and you pump the brakes does it feel like after a pump or two the pedal gets harder to push? If so then vac pump. ;) Also brake fluid absorbs water so in the cold out it gets thick.
Title: Re: You know what every mechanically inclined person hates??
Post by: burn_your_money on December 04, 2009, 08:48:59 pm: I was thinking more along the lines of rust impregnated pads not being able to grip the rotors. Although, if you haven't taken them apart your sliders are probably all seized up.
Title: Re: You know what every mechanically inclined person hates??
Post by: 8v-of-fury on December 06, 2009, 04:52:26 pm: Quote from: burn_your_money on December 04, 2009, 08:48:59 pm
impregnated pads

YOU SAID impregnated pads.. bwahaha.. I'm immature.... aren't I? ;)

Yeah that does sound like what could be the problem. However on a sad note we did get 3-6" of snow today :( so this car is definitely parked until spring. I got it tucked all nice and cozy under a tarp :) at least it will be cozy.

thanks guys.

Oh hey.. Why would the pump head seal leak slow down? don't they usually get worse? it runs great.. so it will be as easy as pulling it out in the spring and it will be good to go.
Title: Re: You know what every mechanically inclined person hates??
Post by: macka on December 07, 2009, 05:48:11 am: Jer,

You know what is the worst about brakes? When the brake hardware kit comes in the right box for the car, but the bag of parts inside is for a different car. All but 2 springs can be used, so I had to soak and clean the little adjuster springs. They were coated in brake dust, and a little rusty, but they cleaned up fine. A little muriatic acid, a water bath, and a good bath in light machine oil overnight and they were almost as good as new. You forgot to mention one thing though, the only thing worse then brakes is transmission repair.