VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.
Engine Specific Info and Questions => TDI Engine -General Info => Topic started by: oldskool rich on December 03, 2009, 09:06:09 pm
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Hi, i just bort an AUDI A6 2.5 TDI, with engine code AAT
I was told that these can be increased to 300 BHP just by using a bleed valve, is that true?
also does anyone know the difference between this and the AEL (140 BHP) engine?
i want more power and i have alot of goodies at my desposal, including chargecooler and M112 supercharger. just not sure what will work best? will i need nozzles?
i need input, i will update my progress, will try to get some videos on here if i can make sumthin worth showing off
thanx in advance xx
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http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=166311 (http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=166311)
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=243838 (http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=243838)
Few threads on tdiclub at the moment, not that specific code though.
Got any 4 cyl mtdi parts knocking about?
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I was told that these can be increased to 300 BHP just by using a bleed valve, is that true?
Not true.
DSS Ultime2 injectors, FMIC, 3" exhaust, camshaft, HE221W and custom programming: 281hp/594nm. (http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f336/valonvieja/Volvo25TDI-dyno.jpg) AEL has bigger injectors and ofcourse programming. Othewise same engine. Bigger injectors is the first thing to do with tdi.
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aat has a small k16, .187 injectors and a small intercooler, think of it as an early 1z with an extra cylinder.
better design on all the manifolds though (no D shape on the intake, but its not necessary as it doesn't make a sharp turn)
that exhaust is a piece of art compared with 1z ( and gt2556v bolts on with no mods ;) )
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what M-TDI parts are you after? i have access to lots of parts, try me
i have no clue about electrics, infact i hate them, so forgive me if this sounds like a mega stupid question but where is the "programming" kept? ;D will that be the ECU? can i just change mine for an AEL one? or should i just get mine re-maped, i dont want to beet around the bush, i want big power, but i dont want to spend £300 on a cam to get an extra 5bhp, i spent £80 on my AAZ which doubled it power, id like to do the same hear if possible
So what is my best course of action to get as much power for little money, using bits off other VAG cars is best for me but i will spend money if it will get me results
what about my supercharger? wud that be better than a turbo?
you sure the gt2556v will go straight on?
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Rich you can go 5cyl mtdi pretty easy ya know. LDA on your 5pot pump & ditch those electrons!
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realy? :o tell me more, i wana go MTDI, what must i do? the pumps the other way round thow, i assumed everything wud be backwards
teach me teach me :P
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5CylAudiTDI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6fYi13CBlU#)
When my friend did a 5 cyl turbo conversion on a eurovan natural, swapping the LDA bits on was a pretty easy job. Its still just a ve pump after all!
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there are IDI pumps for those engines (2l audi100, 2.4l t4...), you can make a hybrid just like on the 1.9mtdi, rotation isn't something you need to worry about if all the parts come from the suitable engines.
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Actually an AAZ LDA won't work. Like oldskool rich said, everything will be backwards, or rather on the wrong side. I think Giles needed 3 different pumps to make that mTDI.
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like I said, all coming from VW I5's ;D
case from a 2.4, head from the eTDI 2.5 (11mm)... doable, better, already done as proven by the video
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Programming is in ecu. No difference is it AAT or AEL, you´ll need re-map. Even if you go with mech pump, you´ll need bigger injectors to get more power. Maybe 170hp with remap only.
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wow, thats amazing, never seen an engine tested like that before
where can i get the biggest injectors for the cheapest?
that pump looked like it just had an LDA off an AAZ on it? may it is just a swap?
if not what engine code do i need the pump off? TBH I wont even have to take the pump off, i can just swap heads cant i?
are we saying no to the supercharger then and yes to a gt2556v?
again no idea where to get any of this stuff from :D
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it was a hybrid pump, put together by Giles, aparently made from three different donor pumps and a lot of custom mods.. not off the shelf stuff
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http://www.dieselkontor.de/product_info.php?cPath=58_195&products_id=3101 (http://www.dieselkontor.de/product_info.php?cPath=58_195&products_id=3101)
I would try HX30, He221, GT32 or similar wastegate turbo. AAT/AEL/Volvo ECU can not be programmer easily to control VNT.
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there is also a truck nozzle, .290 5 hole with just about the same spray angle, has anybody tried something that big? they are cheap as well
not sure on the spray orientation
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there is also a truck nozzle, .290 5 hole with just about the same spray angle, has anybody tried something that big? they are cheap as well
not sure on the spray orientation
Where did you find this information?
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Thats a good price for those r520, cheapest i've seen is £220 for 4.
What vehicles (machinery?) used Holset?
Rich, i've just removed the engine from my mk3, I have the complete loom and a chipped/de-immo ecu, but fancy going to mtdi in a mk2 - this depends heavily on work situation though
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there is also a truck nozzle, .290 5 hole with just about the same spray angle, has anybody tried something that big? they are cheap as well
not sure on the spray orientation
Where did you find this information?
from the manufacturer, Renault injectors ;D
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MTDI is easy if sumone has cracked the dico pump problems
heard sumone saying it was a bit flat?
found a 5pot TD pump but i will surely need to change to the TDI cam plate? and what about the advance? what do i need to do? is it gona be a mission of trial and error like changing the AAZ pump into an MTDI?
anyone know of a cheap turbo nocking about? is my supercharger out of the question?
realy want giles to do all the headache work, but i haventy got that much money, id have to sell my kidneys unless i can pay him in parts
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unless i can pay him in parts
It doesn't hurt to ask. He's done it before and I know he wants a K14 off a 5 cylinder :)
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I have an exhaust scroll from one of those, just the cast part and wastegate attached
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;D thats funny cus ive got a mint turbo with everything apart from the exhaust scroll sitting in my garage
anyone know how i can contact him?
ive decided today that theres no point in doing this A6 up, im gona buy a A6 quattro so i can do it properly
ive found some cheap leather interior and good set of coilovers, i think im gona go all out
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rich I have a complete k14 if interested in a mtdi part swap stylee! needs rebuild so cheap cheap (turbine housing all good)
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;D thats funny cus ive got a mint turbo with everything apart from the exhaust scroll sitting in my garage
lets trade the scroll for the IP bracket with the 68mm hole, what do you say?
I'll take a few pictures and send you a pm asap
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http://www.midlandturbo.com/index2.php?search=AUDI (http://www.midlandturbo.com/index2.php?search=AUDI)
it seems there were two flavours of AATs until 94 they used k16 after that k14, I think mine is the one of the first ones
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the turbo isnt even off my car but its defo 5 pot aplication just had it lying around
:D i dont even want a turbo i just want sumthin to bargain with giles to get a free/cheap pump
you realy that despirate for a bracket? dont you live in portugal? do they not have machinists down ur way? a mate of mine just got his machined, only cost him a tenner
if your realy stuck i could sort you out with one, but prepare to get bummed on the postage
i need to speek to this giles fella before i start swapsies, i must have sumthin he needs
what MTDI stuff are people after?
ive got a 1Z thats finished with ARPs, 6 point injectors and disco pump, mint ring gaps and bearings
adjustable pully all custom made to fit, also 11mm PP and better cam plate. ive not had the chance to put it in a car yet but just needs a turbo and it should fly
i cant see me using it now so if anyone wants it, offers around 650
if you want bits ive got loads of stuff
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damn, I forgot about postage, yap it would probably cost more shipping than the parts value due to weight.
I have a good machinist, he even throws a few freebies now and then, but takes ages to get things done, must get a mini lathe for myself ;D
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Not to get off-topic, but do the inline 5-cyl Audi and the V6 Audi engines bolt up to the same transaxles, ie. same bellhousing patterns? TIA
J.R.
SoCal
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yap, there are three main bolt patterns in DUBs, the 827 4 cyl , the vr6 and the 5 and 6 cylinder engines, audi often uses a bellhousing that accepts both 4cyl and 5/6cyl
anyway, this is what I remember from searching a while ago
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thats right.
most audi boxes are both, but not all
you can fit an A6 TDI quattro box to any TDI/IDI i checked this therory at work the other wk
im using sutch an application in my caddy, you can pare this up with the old locking diffs and hav sum fun
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Cool. When the time/money mix is right, I'd like to get an Audi V6 TDI for one of my VW campers, for more grunt & less fuel consumption. KEP has the adapters for VW or Porsche trannies. Gotta finish the German V6 gasser conversion on the other camper first. ::)
Thanks for the info.
J.R.
SoCal
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Smokr:
You might want to re-consider that. The 2.5 V6 is VERY heavy, whereas the 5 banger is reasonably light. The 2.5 can use all of the hardware from RSA that bolts in the 2.6 gasser, includng hyrdaulically dampened mounts. We had the same thought as you, but after a lot of consideration, went with the 5 cyl instead (and had Giles build a nice MTDI pump for it to keep the installation all mechanical).
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I've always wanted to see a 2.5 v6 mtdi using a cummins 12mm pump. From what i can see it would bolt in no problem! Those pumps are dime a dozen around here.
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Black dog, I presume you mean the VE 6BT CTD pump? That certainly would make for an interesting conversion. Lots of info out there on the 6BT pumps some making huge power.
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the V6 is a crap engine, the heads always go wrong and there a bastard to work on, also weight is a massive issue too, they do bout 30 MPG pretty *** for a diesel , ive been getting 50 out my 5 pot you may as well stick with petrol
how much does giles charge for a 5pot injection pump?
please can sumone tell me how to contact him?
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Vendors section of this forum. If you send him a pump drain all the diesel out before shipping...ask me how I know :-[
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Why not give you the info...I have time now :D
http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=3100.0 (http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=3100.0)
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you could also look at the merc sprinter 2.9 tdi the early ones are mechanical ve pumps and 5cylinder but are chain driven so it would depend on whether you could swap shafts or fit your pulley some how
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oooo, i like the sound of a merc pump, tell me more, whats it off?
i know some very impressive machinists that can make anything happen
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you could also look at the merc sprinter 2.9 tdi the early ones are mechanical ve pumps and 5cylinder but are chain driven so it would depend on whether you could swap shafts or fit your pulley some how
is this a straight swap, besides the pulleys? I have audi 100 C3 2.0td 5cyl, the engine is broken , so id like to replace it with 2.5 tdi 5 cyl but without ecu. I have read the faq about m-tdi pumps , but most of the information is about 1.9 tdi. Is it possible to build a franken pump using my 2.0 td pump and 2.5 tdi pump or are there some factory meh tdi pump which could be used.
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forget about the merc pumps as they are e tdi on the sprinters i got them mixed up with the 2.9 idi,s ??? as used on the merc 600 series vans but by the sound of it the audi 100 2.0-2.5 tds sound a good bet but probably like rocking horse sh#t over here also vw lt2.5 N/a engine is 5cyl but i am not shore if it is electronically controlled like the sdi,s
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ok bit scared that the injection pump will cost me the same as the whole car :o
apparently will need to run 60psi to get anywhere near 300bhp
according to my mate that tunes MR2s PSI meens nothing and its all about air flow, which i strugle to get my head around but its been tried and tested according to him, so im looking at the holset HX40 because its massive. anyone got any thorts on the matter? will that be too laggy? so many people telling me different things its hurting my head
fitted my S line interior, its starting to look like a half desent car, getting big brake conversion after xmas ;D
any more info on pumps and how to covert them to MTDI will be grately appreciated
no disrespect to giles and im sure hes worth it but i just dont think i can afford it :'(
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according to my mate that tunes MR2s PSI meens nothing and its all about air flow, which i strugle to get my head around but its been tried and tested
He is correct. Pressure is restriction to flow.
If you are running 15 psi on a stock head it will flow say 150 CFM
If you port that same head and run the same 15 PSI you will now be flowing 200 CFM because there is less restriction.
Make sense? I just made those numbers up by the way.
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Where did you get that 60psi? Boost doesnt make power, it´s the flow like your mate said. HX40 is "a bit" overkill for these engines, fine up to 500+hp in di engine. HE221W @27psi made 280hp and thats pretty much what you can get with 11mm pump and stock head.
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What about that VGT Holset off the cummins engines I think?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/07-08-DODGE-RAM-CUMMINS-6-7L-VGT-HOLSET-TURBO-CHARGER_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem56382d5336QQitemZ370309681974QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/07-08-DODGE-RAM-CUMMINS-6-7L-VGT-HOLSET-TURBO-CHARGER_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem56382d5336QQitemZ370309681974QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories)
Run it just with a WG actuator?
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ye i think i will go for a HE221W if thats been tried and tested, dont suppose you know what cam hes got?
im lookin for a good sports clutch but cant find anything, a few years back sumone on here showed me a website in the states that sold every clutch you can think of, and colour coded them for differnt uses, think it was green yellow and red from stock to race use, does anyone know about this? i realy need to find it again if anyone knows?
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http://www.clutchnet.com/home.php (http://www.clutchnet.com/home.php)
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thanx very much thats exactly what i wanted ;)
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I have Clutchnet clutches, very nice parts.
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will i be ok to use red clutches for daily use or will they run out quickly?
i was gona use a x2 preasure plate and 6 Button Quick Lock (solid hub) clutch
will that be ok, im guessing will be quite jerky to drive, clutch will be either on or off, but 5 pot has so much torque at idle that you cant stall it so i cant see this being a problem, just wana know if it will last, dont wana be changing it every 6 months, or should i go with a yellow clutch but keep with the red x2 preasure plate? ???
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George told me they don't mix the colors of the parts. I am sure they do. I went with the 6 puck sprung hub in RED with the RED pressure plate... I don't have it on the car yet. 53 Willys and zukgod both have clutchnet RED sprung setups and said they worked fine for them.
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will there be a big difference between sprung and solid?
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I have a solid, the reseller here said I'll be ok with a solid and I think that too. They have both standard clutches without the dampeners and racing discs with them, and vice verse. But if you're going high performance it might be too aggressive (specially with the spring plate) without the low bottom torque.
Give them a call and ask. I think they will guide you.
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ye i think i will go for a HE221W if thats been tried and tested, dont suppose you know what cam hes got?
Dunno exact specs, ~260 degrees. Custom grinded at R-Koneistus. GT32 would be other nice turbo. Spools pretty nice even with 1,9.
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Basically George said that the sprung hub would absorb a little more drivetrain shock for daily driving and make it all last longer. The solid hub he said was more for racing and is a complete on off switch, which he said was best for drag racing lauches. I plan on using mine daily so I went with the sprung hub.
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Basically George said that the sprung hub would absorb a little more drivetrain shock for daily driving and make it all last longer. The solid hub he said was more for racing and is a complete on off switch, which he said was best for drag racing lauches. I plan on using mine daily so I went with the sprung hub.
Interesting. On their web site they actually have discs without springs rated as green ("street upgrade") which is supposed to be for cars with 10-15 % increase. It's a clutch like that I have.
Anyway, the dampened clutch will for sure be smoother. Wise to choose it.
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ok lets do this, i just bort the 260 nozzles and a brand spanking new HE221W coverd zero miles
now just need clutch, injection pump and was looking at getting a 5 to 1 aftermarket manifold off a 20v AAN and bodging it to fit. i think the inlet is ok, will do a bit of porting too, also need a cam, anyone know of a cheap place?
this is looking good peeps, i feel this is the start of sumthin beautifull i will post pics as soon as i have any
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Why dont you look 10 valve gasser manfold? It´s bolt on, 20v is not even near ::)
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ye i know, but i cant find one for cheap, theres a 20v one goin for £100 on ebay
had a quick look for 10v on the web and one came up for $1000 :o
id rather make my own
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Try a Audi gasser 5 cyl turbo manifold Rich, you must have access to a few of them?
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the stock manifold is good on these, not like the 4cyl crap