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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: Jay on November 08, 2009, 09:19:14 am
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Righto then... ummmm... feeling pretty stupid right now :-[
Cut a long story short, I drove through a stream that looked ALOT shallower than what it is!
I thought I would be able to make it because it looked OK... got 1/2 way then the car just cut out, seems the middle dips down and it was almost up to the window :-\
Managed to get pulled out by a passerby (who just so happens to have a large Land Rover Discovery 3 with winch ... wonder why... ::) ) got recovered home eventually after waiting almost 2 hours in soaked clothes in the freezing cold and now have the car sitting outside.
While waiting for the recovery man my brother in law who came too see if he could help (take the P!ss more like ::) ) said to try crank it over after we had waited for it to drain out as much as it would, the starter motor never spun (thankfully!) and there was nothing other than a short 'DURR', we called a mechanic my brother in law knows and he said not to try start it because it can cause a hydro lock and bend the rods or some catastrophic failure to that effect.
So do I just let it sit for a day or two then change the oil and oil filter and try crank it over?
What else should I do? and what else should I look for?
To say I am gutted is an understatement :'(
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Pull the glow plugs or injectors and try to spin it over by hand or with the starter. There won't be the resistance without those in the holes. That is what we always do to our gas off roaders, pull spark plugs and crank reassemble and hopefully it will start. Change the oil and anything else that might have got underwater.
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Where the nose was pointing down into the dip water got up to the alternator by the looks of it.
Should the start motor & Alternator dry out quite quickly?
Also is there any risk of water having got into the turbo at all ? After being pulled out and pulled onto the flat bed recovery truck backwards ? ???
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I doubt the turbo got hurt, the alt will dry out since it's pretty open, the starter will take a bit longer.
Hopefully nothing got hurt very bad.....like rods and stuff.
I did a similar thing a few nights ago, drove down the boat launch to a river and it was too icy to back out, got down to the concrete hoping for better traction but there was none so I ended up plopping the front wheels off the little ice ledge into the water :(. Tried a few run-at-its, got up the ledge easy but couldn't get past the concrete. Ended up getting gravel out of the river and spreading it behind the tires, that worked first try ;D. But now my starter's wet (read froze, it's 10F) and it takes forever to engage >:(.
Good luck getting it going :)
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Well considering a it's a diesel and it won't run now, I can almost guarantee that water got into the cylinders. That's why it isn't running. Take the air intake apart and check for water. And as theman said, take the glow plugs out. Try sticking something in the cylinder to see if there actually is water in there. If there is, blow some compressed air in it to dry it out.
Good luck.
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If the rods / internals got stuffed I would have heard a bad noise wouldn't I?
I don't recall hearing anything other than the sound of it just kinda stopping...
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Water could have killed the power and thus killed the fuel seliniod...temporarily. I would take all the GPs out or all of the injectors out. then take the starter out and take the end off if you can and dry it out. I have had mud packed into my bronco starter so hard it wouldn't spin, I always carry a spare when wheeling. Dry your stuff out, put the starter on and crank. just a burst not a continual turning, and see if the water flies out. When no more water flies out, put it all back in and see if it starts. If it doesn't report back. Could be as simple as a fuse/wiring or it could be bent junk.
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Turn it over by hand and not the starter once you take the injectors or GPs out. Because of the compression ratio and small openings if there is a lot of water in there it might not have enough time to get out fast enough if you use the starter.
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If the rods / internals got stuffed I would have heard a bad noise wouldn't I?
I don't recall hearing anything other than the sound of it just kinda stopping...
Nope... rods don't make much noise as they bend. :(
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If the rods / internals got stuffed I would have heard a bad noise wouldn't I?
I don't recall hearing anything other than the sound of it just kinda stopping...
Nope... rods don't make much noise as they bend. :(
oh... we'll see tomorrow in the (hopefully) day light.
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So you got water up to the windows? Wow! The engine definitely drank water. I bet the airbox is full of water. The airbox sucks air from the fender. If you're lucky and the engine wasn't revving fast it might have just stopped and no harm done. Otherwise, you bent a rod.
If you're trying to spin the engine with the starter and only get a buzz then the starter is trying to turn over but it can't because the engine is hydrolocked. Pull the injectors and spin it by hand. Let it dry a few days and then do a compression test while the injectors are out. If one cylinder has significantly lower compression then its rod is most likely bent.
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OK, who's the U-boat commander? :P
Friend of mine dunked his Acura like that, bent 2 rods and destroyed the rod journals on the crank. I hope you got lucky!
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cool an unterseavagen
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If I can't get it working, I've got a few options.
1.) Petrol can, match
2.) New car, thinking maybe a Sharan 1.9TD PD 115 as we have child #3 on the way
3.) Just been offered a 1.9AAZ ( I think ) with loom & clocks.
4.) VR6 engine swap ;D
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injectors out, torch to look inside, if theres water then get it out with either a small pump (washer pump) or a thin strip of fabric, then you can see inside easier meaning you dont need to take the head off, chances are you sucked up water, but theres a good chance if you get it dry inside then you should be able to at least crank it over.
also to dry the alternator and starter, use a hair dryer ;D
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If I can't get it working, I've got a few options.
1.) Petrol can, match
2.) New car, thinking maybe a Sharan 1.9TD PD 115 as we have child #3 on the way
3.) Just been offered a 1.9AAZ ( I think ) with loom & clocks.
4.) VR6 engine swap ;D
take the Sharan option :D
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When removing the injectors should I replace the seals or would they be ok to reuse? I ordered the oil, oil filter, air filter, sump o-ring etc last night and forgot to put the injector seals on the list.
If I can't get it working, I've got a few options.
1.) Petrol can, match
2.) New car, thinking maybe a Sharan 1.9TD PD 115 as we have child #3 on the way
3.) Just been offered a 1.9AAZ ( I think ) with loom & clocks.
4.) VR6 engine swap ;D
take the Sharan option :D
Was told they can be mapped to 140hp and shed loads more torque, and improved economy so it's defo an option, also had a look at the Golf Plus but need to see one in person to see if it has enough space for wifey, 3 monkeys (2 needs baby seats) and me ;D
Managed to get Thursday off work to work on it (work is hectic with 2 server & network installs this week).
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When removing the injectors should I replace the seals or would they be ok to reuse?
Single use only.. they deform as the injectors are torqued down.
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Was told they can be mapped to 140hp and shed loads more torque, and improved economy so it's defo an option, also had a look at the Golf Plus but need to see one in person to see if it has enough space for wifey, 3 monkeys (2 needs baby seats) and me
the golf plus will fit all said characters, however the LCF rests with the Sharan. Especially when you still have room for half the Celtic football team, and can put the other half on the roof rack with room for a spare jerry can
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If the rods / internals got stuffed I would have heard a bad noise wouldn't I?
I don't recall hearing anything other than the sound of it just kinda stopping...
That's usually all you WILL hear. DO NOT try to turn it over with the starter, because if the rods are bent (usual failure mode) whey will whack to bottom side of the cylinder and break the block (if they haven't already). Pull the glow plugs and turn it over BY HAND. Try blowing out the cylinders while at TDC, or even a bit down the exhaust stroke (so air can flush water out the EXHAUST side) of each cylinder (pull the cam cover to see the exhaust valve depressing a bit). If you are incredibly lucky, only the head gasket is done in, but I don't think I have ever seen a hydro-lock that didn't damage the rods - and sometimes the pistons (squish down the ring lands sometimes). It is also quite easy to drop the pan and inspect the rods from below.
Good luck with it.
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I did the same thing late one day in Michigan's extreme upper peninsula (30 minutes beyond where US-41 'ends") in a two year old 1985 diesel Escort. Mazda engine. It looked like a larger mud puddle in the middle of the logging road. Each puddle before it was progressively larger moving towards the final "puddle". It was almost dark, so it was hard to see. I could see the other side was about 60 yards away in a straight line. We were going about 35 when we hit the water. VERY big flash and the engine simply quite and it became obvious we were FLOATING in a small lake that had flooded across the road. After a few minutes, the water inside the cabin raised up to the level of our butts and we stopped floating. Not wanting to forge the dark waters on foot, I tried to crank the car. It spun freely. Next I spun in gear (The days before idiot proof cars) and moved the car out of the water. We spent the night in the wet car and hiked 6 hours out the next day.
Outcome: the head gasket was totally blown allowing the cranking. The rods were bent and everything other than the block was replaced. There was no unusual noises when the engine died other than a stall. Hopefully you are not so un-lucky.
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These stories make a strong argument for an in-car video cam... Just think of the YouTube possibilities ;D
Seriously, best wishes to you Jay. Hope it turns out okay.
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Cheers buddy, it's sounding good! Got the water out, tried cranking her over and ...
flat battery! :-[ Waiting on my bro in law to get back here so jump start her, and hopefully she'll fire up!
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Brother in law made it over, tried jumping it and it sounded like it would almost take but didn't and the battery seemed to loose more charge despite being powered by his Zafira 1.9TD giving it revs.
Going to replace the battery tomorrow I think and try again :'( with GP's out, fuel stop solenoid disconnected, jumping from his battery to mine so it doesn't loose charge and crank it over and see what happens. I think there is just too much water in the system still.
Also just tried the battery on my Frontera and it's DEAD. not even a slight sign of life left in it, scrappy time for that pile of junk car!
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AAZ FTMFW!!!
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AAZ FTMFW!!!
You got a spare? ;D
Awaiting news from my friend with the AAZ, he was going to put it into his caddy so don't know if he still wants it or not.
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Have you checked your oil level?
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Yes, the oil level is higher than what it should be, so I guess it's water in the sump.
We tried again this morning after putting a new battery on and it sounded more hopefull but never took, we removed GP's again and pushed it no water came out, cranked on started and air was just coming out.
What next? :-\
We're going to check if there is any water in the fuel, then maybe change the oil I guess.
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Are you getting any smoke out the tailpipe?
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Never saw any smoke out the exhaust, but when I went round the back to put the tools back in the boot there were little black spots that looked like they came out the exhaust.
She almost started! but there was smoke coming out of GP #1 where it won't screw back in correctly, and the GP/WIF light flashes when waiting for them to heat up so I guess it's time to drain the fuel out which I don't have the facilities for (living in a flat with no garage, working in the car park I'm not actually allowed too...), so I'm probably taking it to Crazy Quiff's to have the GP hole rethreaded and fuel drained, then fingers crossed it'll work!