VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.
General Information => General => Topic started by: Smokey Eddy on October 20, 2009, 11:36:16 pm
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So i bought Prothe's $9 ring sets when i did my build and ... ... ... no comment. Needless to say someone commented on my build and said "good job with those cheap rings you're gonna hate your self when you gotta re-do it when they decide they don't want to seal"
and they couldn't be more right. im burning a notable amount of oil. the cold starts are exceedingly rough, lots of blue behind me driving out of my block, not running on all cyls and the like.
Soooooooooo
back when i was looking for ring sets originally the VW shop said $60/set and the Lordco said something insane like $250+++ per set...
The only difference i see is price. As it stands the $60/set are what im going to go for but i know a lot of that number is mark up because of where im buying them from.
Does anyone else have a good source for rings? I don't mind ordering online and waiting a month. It will do the way it is for a month. I just need to do this before it starts to get below freezing at night.
I've heard about Total Seal being a superior brand.
My build makes some above average power. Needless to say the rings will need to handle 25psi and a decent amount of torque as that will be through a large IC. (so probably not really 25 pounds but ... the torque is going to be up there at times. Merging onto the highway, showing off my hard work to my friends and of COURSE smoking literally and figuratively the ricers.)
Thanks Fellas I really appreciate any input!
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It seems strange that the rings sealed for a while and then lost the seal ???
Did you confirm that it's for sure the rings and not valve guides???
Does it start hard in the cold?
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Is that $60 per cylinder from the dealer so x4?
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It seems strange that the rings sealed for a while and then lost the seal ???
Did you confirm that it's for sure the rings and not valve guides???
Does it start hard in the cold?
The Top Line rings I had did just about that.. In the beginning they were too bad.. Some oil consumption, but nothing crazy for it not being broken in.. Unfortunately, the longer it went the worse they got.. Threw a set of Grant rings in and it's been GTG ever since...
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It turns a few times before it starts and when it does start it runs on 2 cyls. LOTS of white, really rough. it's obvious 1 or more cyls are not firing. Then afterwards burns blue until it gets hot enough that i would imagine you can't see the blue OR possibly the burning of the oil decreases.
that's 60$/set from a vw specialty shop called AVR. there is 1 in abbotsford and 1 in kamloops in British Columbia.
Yes, it would seem like they sealed alright and then wore at a catastrophic rate. Or something like that.
I am first to blame the extremely cheap rings, but could the issue be that i needed to overbore?
The EGT's touched 1,200 very briefly on a long hill climb. after that the oil burning was noted and the cold starts have been getting worse.
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1200F egt isn't all that high, I hit 1350F for like 1 second (once) and have suffered no ill effects. I wouldn't hold it at 1200 for very long that's for sure.
Bummer yer havin' such a bad time with it.....hang in there!!!! :)
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It's what i get for going to the bottom of the barrel. Oh well... I had no other choice. I knew it was a bad idea but i didn't have the money for real rings.
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It's what i get for going to the bottom of the barrel. Oh well... I had no other choice. I knew it was a bad idea but i didn't have the money for real rings.
People can never afford to do it right the first time, but somehow afford to do it again....
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=( Tell me about it. Believe me i wanted to go with the right rings but it would have meant taking out a loan :S
which in hind sight would have been the better move. the interest would have been less than those cheap ass rings + head gastket + my time...
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$60 each!?!!? Holy ***balls. I think my Goetze rings from Myke were like $80 or something for all 4 pistons. Order them from Myke, even shipping to canada would be cheaper.
Brendan
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I have bought the last two sets of rings from Autohausaz.com and had good luck with the 1st set, the 2nd set went in two days ago and I hope to have it running this weekend if all goes well.
mine are Grants and I paid like $23 for the set. the website listed above is the cheapest I have found for all parts for the engine.
later
jkeiffer
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I'm sorry but when it comes down to Internals, like Piston Rings, why skimp out and get a cheap set?
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because some of us are poor enough to have to make decisions like "do I get the expensive rings, or eat this week?"
I have had good results with the grant rings from autohausaz.
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because some of us are poor enough to have to make decisions like "do I get the expensive rings, or eat this week?"
Im sorry, but if thats your excuse, then you shouldn't be building a car.
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It's not all about how much you spend on a part either.. I've had expensive crappy parts, and cheap crappy parts.. I've used the Grant rings (@ around $25 a set) and they have worked lightyears better than Top Line rings (@ $65 a set)..
For me, the Grant rings have performed just as well as the Goetze rings.. Now as far as those bargin basement rings, well there is such a things as too cheap as we have learned... Of course the only way we all know this is by someone else's misfortune.. But if they would have been good and held up, I'd be buying $9 piston rings from now on...
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It's not all about how much you spend on a part either.. I've had expensive crappy parts, and cheap crappy parts.. I've used the Grant rings (@ around $25 a set) and they have worked lightyears better than Top Line rings (@ $65 a set)..
For me, the Grant rings have performed just as well as the Goetze rings.. Now as far as those bargin basement rings, well there is such a things as too cheap as we have learned... Of course the only way we all know this is by someone else's misfortune.. But if they would have been good and held up, I'd be buying $9 piston rings from now on...
Yeah! my misfortune! they don't work. Or maybe they would have worked with no power increases.
I'm really glad i've heard so much good talk about these Grant rings. I'll be going with them for sure.
This is exactly the type of discussion i was trying to prevoke. Thanks guys.
And sometimes, especially as a student, if you're too broke to buy expensive rings and have to go with the cheap but it means you can attend you job or attend your classes you're paying thousands of dollars for ... then it's worth cheaping out on the rings. a week of work that would have been otherwise missed makes up for having to re-do the rings later on when the funds are available.
So autohausaz it is.
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Oh ps can anyone shoot me the part no. for the Grant STD rings?
now that i think about it the $25 grant rings are probably the rings that AVR would sell me. that $60 is likely just after the mark up.
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has anyone tried to buy total seal rings for a 1.6? i know they're available for the 1.9 but just wondering... i'd go total seal but the goetz total seal burned a hole in my wallet... all those fees!!!!!!
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I can't find rings on autohausez and bestpricecarparts doesn't have any either =(
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http://www.autohausaz.com/search/product.aspx?sid=k1zqgebji5iagbrn3smbqojj&makeid=800026@VW&modelid=1285185@RABBIT%20L%20CUSTOM&year=1982&cid=20@Engine%20Parts,%20Seals%20%26%20Gaskets&gid=5640@Piston%20Ring%20Set
1.6 diesel rings on autohausAZ.com
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OHHH see that's where i went wrong. I entered the model and year of MY car.
Now it makes sense.
oh holy crap so the rings for all 4 pistons is 22$...
and the Goetze brand is 25$ per set.
22$ for 4 sets of rings sounds cheaper than the 9$/set rings i bought...
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yeah, its important to know the model and year (and sometimes make) the parts you are looking for come from.
the hotrod guys(who have unbelievable amounts of parts from other cars making up their rods) have parts books, so they can remember what came from what kind of car.
I do the same, everytime I use a part from another year/model/make, I write it down.
because lord knows my memory is horrible.
-Owen
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The picture shows all 12 rings for Grant but the descriptions for both are the same?
the picture for the goetze only shows three rings
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i realized i was being a fool and just bought 4 sets of the Grant brand. Thanks fellas.
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has anyone tried to buy total seal rings for a 1.6? i know they're available for the 1.9 but just wondering... i'd go total seal but the goetz total seal burned a hole in my wallet... all those fees!!!!!!
I have a set for the 1.6. I can't comment on the performance though, as my build isn't finished. Zukgod and at least a couple others have them as well.
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has anyone tried to buy total seal rings for a 1.6? i know they're available for the 1.9 but just wondering... i'd go total seal but the goetz total seal burned a hole in my wallet... all those fees!!!!!!
Yup Total Seal in my build.
Working great with 30+ PSI boosting all the damn time. I don't own the car any longer but the new owner is a good friend and he doesn't drive it any less hard than I did, I've even been able to run it around a couple times. ;D
Looking back on the build I would have probably gone with some goetze Rings (or the like) from Myke and spent some funds in other areas but hey they are in there and working great.
15k+ on the Total Seal rings and still almost Zero BlowBy
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Ed,
sorry about your rings man, I think you and I had a conversation about ring quality when you were building. We both agreed at that moment for you it was the best option so don't go beating yourself up over it too much.
We all make decisions we wish could go back and re do later on once in a while.
My Grandpa used to say all the time,
"If you don't have the time or money to do it right the first time where are you going to find the time or money to do it over?"
EVERY time I have to Re-Do something I hear him back behind me somewhere...... :-[
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well my only alternative would have been to take money from elsewhere to pay for real rings.
It's not that big of a deal. Just a weekend is all. My new rings are already shipping. I've already got the HG. What else do i need :P if i can catch the fresh oil and the perfectly fine coolant in clean containers i'll just put it all back in when im done.
downpipe comes off, hard lines come off, coolant hoses come off, head comes off, oil pan comes off, push the pistons out through the deck, change them rings out, hone the walls lightly. Do the reverse!
I'm not actually all that upset because i just so happened to get my license suspended for driving with the magnetic "N" for novice ::) plate on the back of my car.
it's a 30 day suspension so i've got some time. I'm thinking i'll change out the worn gross grotty carpet, maybe paint the blue vinyl black, possibly port and polish some more.
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Zuk, did you send them rings to be custom machined, or did you buy from them outright? if you bought from them, what P/N did you use for the proper rings? i know andy2 and a few others found some for a 1.9, but to date i have been unable to find any for a 1.6
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Zuk, did you send them rings to be custom machined, or did you buy from them outright? if you bought from them, what P/N did you use for the proper rings? i know andy2 and a few others found some for a 1.9, but to date i have been unable to find any for a 1.6
Diesel Specific Rings from Total Seal for the 1.6.
The part number for 1mm over pistons is 7844-40 (TSR-S7844-40)
.50mm over would be 7844-20 (TSR-S7844-20)
Standard would be 7844-00 (TSR-S7844-00)
Summit Racing # is the one in the ( ).
They were $191.69 before shipping.
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that's 60$/set from a vw specialty shop called AVR. there is 1 in abbotsford and 1 in kamloops in British Columbia.
It's here in Kelowna, not Kamloops. They used to be Bowwow before and they used to have a store in Victoria as well.
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OHHHHHHHHHH
WELLLL THEN!
Thank you for the correction! I was too lazy to double check.
Do you use em? I find some of their stuff is nice and others are just way too marked up.
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I try to buy my parts from AVR whenever I can. The guys that run the Kelowna one are super nice and pretty knowledgeable too. I find their prices to be on par or lower than lordco's in most cases, except that AVR usually has nice German made parts. I've had a couple of suspect experiences with parts from NAPA and Lordco. Ball joints that lasted less than a year, etc. There's not a ton of local options around these parts though.
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Yeah AVR is definitely dependable.
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I try to buy my parts from AVR whenever I can. The guys that run the Kelowna one are super nice and pretty knowledgeable too. I find their prices to be on par or lower than lordco's in most cases, except that AVR usually has nice German made parts. I've had a couple of suspect experiences with parts from NAPA and Lordco. Ball joints that lasted less than a year, etc. There's not a ton of local options around these parts though.
Yeap. Couldn't say it better myself. They really are great guys there. Always helping out! And in comparison with other stores, they are much cheaper while stocking good German parts.
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Zuk, did you send them rings to be custom machined, or did you buy from them outright? if you bought from them, what P/N did you use for the proper rings? i know andy2 and a few others found some for a 1.9, but to date i have been unable to find any for a 1.6
Diesel Specific Rings from Total Seal for the 1.6.
The part number for 1mm over pistons is 7844-40 (TSR-S7844-40)
.50mm over would be 7844-20 (TSR-S7844-20)
Standard would be 7844-00 (TSR-S7844-00)
Summit Racing # is the one in the ( ).
They were $191.69 before shipping.
thats good to know, thanks! i guess i don't feel so bad for spending around $250 cdn on my goetz total seals now ;D