VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.
General Information => Troubleshooting => Topic started by: dieselherb1 on October 17, 2009, 06:37:46 pm
-
I have a wiring problem with my caddy. Rad fan will come on if wired to battery, but if I connect the two wires at the sensor on the Rad. nothing. Is there a relay or a fuse? I didn't see one.
-
What year/model do you have?? I believe there is a fuse for the fan.. An easy check of the relay would be to jump pins 87 and 30 in the fuse box and see if it runs...
-
another question is does it have AC? my rabbit has AC and there is another relay in there so if you turn the AC on it will kick the radiator fan on.
Im trying to understand a little bit better. Basically if you jump the terminals of the sensor it doesnt turn on?
-
AS the title says 1981 Caddy(pickup) 1.6 no A/C but some wiring for A/C idle control, but no evidence of A/C in the truck(heater control only,no extra holes in firewall) Yes connect the Rad sensor wires together nothing, wire Rad fan to battery, works.
-
Duh.. Damn pubpic school education.. Some day I will learn to read..
Hopefully this will be of some help
(http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm124/maxfax3/blockxps1.jpg)
The #1 fuse is labeled as fan motor.. May wanna check for power there.. THe green arrows point to the fan relay socket.. WIth those pins jumped the fan should run regardless.. THat bypasses the relay and temp switch... If it doesn't run it's wiring somewhere, you may want to inspect the fuse panel itself as these are known to take a poo from time to time.. I think it's pin 30 is hot all the time, and 87 is to the fan..
-
I have the same issue with my 81 Truck.
It has A/C.
but .......
Believe mine has had a fuse box upgrade.
It has the blade type fuses.
Was told after i bought it - by a friend - it would have the old style fuses. That was couple/few months ago. I just started fiddling with the Truck and notice it has the newer style fuses.
This diagram looks like it was probably the old style fuses - you got anything like this for me Maxfax ? Maybe 82-83'ish ?
Also - the A/C comp puts drag on the engine when in one of those selections on control panel - and rad fan No Go in that situation either.
-
Barron, you're truck should have the blade style fuses.. The oldest MK1 I've had (1980) used them... That diagram is actually for an '82 Caddy (alldata doesn;t go back before that).. I believe the '81 should be the same...
-
And of course you're exactly right on that Max.
My fuse box is just like that schematic.
Maybe Herb and I can work this thread together without confusing everybody.
The young guru that told me that about the fuses must already be getting rusty on mk1'ism. Don't think he's had one in a while either though, in his defense.
Glad the fuse box is not a replacement. Because the Truck has a couple/few electrical quirks that i was ready to blame on whoever swapped it out. I'll probably do another thread on those things later after i get a little deeper into it.
It was almost about dark today by the time i went to fool with it a little. So didn't do much.
Pulled ALL the fuses and relays out one by one and put them back in to get fresh 'bites' on their connections.
No blown fuses.
The temp gauge started working again after that.
It had been working all along previously - until i took it for maiden voyage. It decided to take a few days off or something i guess.
Last week one of the terminals broke off of the plug-in and stayed on the fan first time i removed it. Or maybe was already like that. I wasn't real sure i liked the way the plug condition looked inside anyhow. Suspicious - somewhat. Spliced on some spade terminals but been leaving wires unplugged from fan.
Have only driven it once since working on it and getting it to run good. Don't want to burn it up now over some fan wiring or problem fan. So been leaving fan unhooked as precaution.
After driving it some for the first time this past Friday and getting it up to what was definitely operating temp real good (since gauge was on vacation) - pulled over in a parking lot and let it sit running - then plugged up the fan wires.
It never budged even a fraction. Let it idle some more to get hotter to be sure - still nothing.
Was going to do as you suggested above - this evening, but started back from scratch with jumper wires to the fan first to double reconfirm which way wires went for correct fan rotation direction.
Reconfirmed proper +/- and marked them, then let fan run about 20 seconds with the jumpers. Had just been doing momentary checks before just to see if it worked at all.
Fan runs pretty damn fast - about like an mk2 on high speed.
is that "normal" for mk1 ?
The alligator clip ends were very very very hot on one of the jumpers when removed - so just stopped right there.
Is this fan a potential problem you think ?
Not in that it isn't coming on automatically - i know thats in the plumbing before it reaches the fan.
But in the fact of how fast it runs, and the jumper getting so hot ? Just want some familiar opinions.
I don't want to troubleshoot the auto function with a fan that might melt my infrastructure/wires or catch my dang truck on fire. Really like the Truck, but I don't trust this mk1 stuff yet.
I can make some heavier gauge jumpers and try it again.
These aren't weaklings, but not quite the same gauge as the fan wires either. They have never presented this condition testing mk2 fans on both speeds.
Can also test the fan on the dead 82 Truck to see how/if that fan runs. Both of those things might be a couple/few more days away though. So just wanted to run that all by you for now.
Thanks
-
The fan's on my MK1's sound like air planes.. ;D And they do draw a fair amount of current, not sure exactly how much off hand.. It is route through that 30 amp fuse though.. I suspect they are about the same as the 2 speed fans on high.. WIth the A/C I guess it wouldn';t need to be running as fast till things got warm...
-
Thanks Max.
This fan sounded about like an airplane too - good description btw. So its probably doing around normal then ...
IF it operates by jumping the relay slots - yet still will not operate when an A/C related option is selected on HVAC controls - is that going to mean the relay is potentially suspect ?
I've never been much on electricals.
A different friend told me there is a "ground block" up under the dash nearby fuse box that i need to look for and clean all connections hooked to it. I'll hunt for it too.
no rad fan
no fuel gauge (stays on empty side)
no driver side brake light - park mode works - turn sig works.
Bulb goes dead when brake applied with park lights on.
When park lights NOT on - applying brake will activate the lesser illuminous element of the bulb (park light). lol
pass tail light does everything right.
other than no reverse lights - on either side.
not going there for a while.
-
mk1 fan ..... power from battery + to rad temp switch out of switch to fan ( red ) thru fan and out on brown to ground. Pull connector off rad switch and jumper the 2 wires .. fan should run ... if not , then jumper brown wire at fan to ground... still not working? then the wire from the battery + to the rad switch is broken.
if the jumpers work , and the fan doesn't come on when connected in regular fashion , the rad thermo switch is toast.
slower speed ( second speed ) for fan ... go to junkyard (or parts store ) and get a resistor for a FORD taurus/sable rad fan ... (2 wire resistor mounted on the tranny behind the fan) tie one end of the new resistor to the red wire on your rad fan ... the other gets wired to the fuse box X relay ( power after start ) almost any size wire can be used, the resistor limits the power to the fan and slows it down .. if the rad gets hot enough, the original rad switch will power up the rad fan to full speed.
-
if you can't find a resistor this one (http://www.newark.com/vishay-dale/hl10006e1r000je/wirewound-resistors/dp/71M0821) might work. its a 100 watt 15VDC one. price is reasonable too considering VW charges about $30-40 for theirs...
-
I checked my wiring, #1 fuse was blown. But no fan when wires at Rad. switch are connected. But I can hear something in the dash clinking. I took the relay from another truck that the fan does work, still the same clink noise no fan. Haven't checked the brown wire to ground yet. My fuel gauge doesn't work either but I do have power to the power, maybe sending unit or ground. And the horn doesn't work.
-
Herb, one of the two rad therm switch wires should have voltage on it at all times - check for that.
Did you try the relay slot jumper trick like Max posted ?
And ... you might be victim to something similar as mine.
------------------------
Got my fan figured out Thursday.
It pissed me off when nothing happened by jumping the relay slots like in Max's diagram - so i got determined. And pretended to be an electrician.
Turned out one of the PO's had rewired the fan system.
Deleting/bypassing all the factory features.
They just put 12volts strait to the rad therm switch.
And it (rad therm switch) evidently is roasted.
Was already aware that a few hack job wiring operations existed under the hood.
I just didn't know the fan was one of them.
And wasn't intending to tackle those things yet.
So dug in and found the right factory wiring they had cut off and tucked back in loom, and some others that were mummified in electrical tape. Got all that stuff out from hiding. Having the virginistic dead 82 nearby as a guide helped A LOT.
Found the right rad therm switch wires - with one having battery voltage. That was good.
Found the right fan motor wires, jumped the relay slots again and got voltage on the positive. Another good.
Removed jumper from slots - set hvac control to A/C - no voltage at positive fan wire - DAMN ! Happened to think, by luck - to turn fan switch on to a speed, and then there was my voltage to the fan wire like i wanted. Had to remember this wasn't an Mk2. lol
So while i was stoked about the diagnostic victory - i tackled the driver side brake light and fixed it too. Then made a temporary dome light (from an Mk2 trunk light) and fixed the driver side door jamb switch. Need to repair passenger door jamb switch too.
I was flat out kikking some azz - i tell ya what.
Almost felt like a real elektrishon.
Then called it a night.
Friday afternoon i got rid of the other spaghetti and unsightly bullshank they had done in past.
Straitened up a bunch of that crap and mapped my plans.
Made a list of needed supplies and went shopping.
Going to hit it hard again this weekend if rain clears out.
-
Congradulations Barron!!! I must just be a lucky sum bugger.. I have yet to have any VWs that have a botched electrical system, or the typical bugs other than a faulty GP relay...
-
Thanks Max.
You need to buy a cheap running Truck - they come with a bucket of bugs - and token gifts of previous owners. lol
This 81 even came with 3 windshield squirter pumps.
The original dead one mounted to tank, the second dead one still mounted to strut tower, the third working one laying in the apron - with auxillary toggle switch for it mounted in dash above ashtray. And big crack in washer tank from top to bottom.
Yanked it all out.
Except the switch. Going to use it for now on the rad fan until after a couple cooling sytem flushes. Then put new thermostat - rad therm switch - and wire it all back to factory functions.
Hoping whoever toggle switched the squirter didn't realize they were supposed to pull back on the wiper stalk to engage squirters. The print on the stalks is long gone. Be nice if it still energizes. Going to strap it back to st whl with a bungee and check it after battery goes back in. Found the right wires for it.
The odometer has rolled over.
Reads 060,xxx.x
Has various stickers/decals from all across USA.
And found miscellaneous receipts from abroad.
Its been there, and back.
-
I had a cheap running truck.. I kick my azz constantly for selling it.. Technically my first VW was a 1982 Caddy diesel.. 160K miles no rust, a few dents, and the seats were junk.. I paid $125 put a battery in it and drove it home for some extensive service.. The condition with getting the truck so cheap is that I had to tow the 5 Rabbits and all their spare parts outta there..
So outta the 5 Rabbits Frankenbuny was born and actually the first one I had on the road... Then there was the '86 Jetta for $500 bucks and 300K.. Then the Silver bunny for 100 bucks and a bad engine.. IT was resurected from the orignal Rabbit parts cars.. Took it for exhaust and the exhaust guy sold me 3 parts cars 84 TD Jetta, 84 Rabbit, and 85 Jetta for $300.. I had a customer in the shop notice the abundance of dead bunnies around and he gave me the 84 Rabbit sitting in the back of his barn... The damn things do multiply!!! Out of the 4 I have had on the road (The Caddy, 2 Rabbits, and the Jetta) none gave me electrical problems.. Of course they made up for it on every other thing..
-
You've probably got enough stuff to cut the roof off a sedan shell and fab a bobtail-mini-Sport-truck. That would be a wild one !
The squirter stalk does work on mine. :beer:
Someone needed an owners manual instead of a dash switch on that fix. I could use an owners manual myself lol.
Got the battery/cables/and most of the wiring plumbed up.
Thinking about one of those resistors that mk2dsl and jtang mentioned. Coupled to a 3-way switch. 1 click resisted and other click full-on.
-
I had to work this weekend so I'll try the suggestions Monday A.M. I have 5 Caddies here I working on, 2 without engine or trans, 1 street-worthy, 1 rod broke I think. I have 2 TDI engines that will go into the best bodies. I need to test the speedo cables on 2 speedo doesn't work.
-
Can't have just one I guess... ;D
Barron, I'll look around I may have an extra owner's manual... I know several of the inital VW's had them yet....
I ultumately ditched my VW cooling ron for one out of a Probe (I think).. Wanted something a bit less bulky and that sat flatter to the rad.. The one I have has 2 speeds built in, alothough I only ever use high.. Pulls quite a bit of air and doesn;t seem to draw quite the amperage...
-
The probe(you think) fan, single?
-
Got the fan working relay contacts rusty-dirty. Thanks for your help! Now on to the speedo.
-
Congrats Herb, and good luck on the speedo! And yes it was a single fan with 2 speeds.. Although the fan itself was large enough to cover about 2/3 of the radiator.. The side towards the alt and such is just shroud, which work out nice for clearance.. It was indeed a fan from a '94 Probe with the 4 banger.. Had to cut, trim, reform with a heat gun, but it doesn;t fit too bad. ::). I should have scouted the junkyards for something that may have been an easier fitment, but I had this one laying here, and it was free...
-
I got a Taurus fan for my son's S10 V8. It really pulls alot of air, everyone uses them on V8 conversions. Cheap too!
-
The Taurus fans are impressive.. (At least there is one impressive thing about a Taurus) I put a set on an early 90's Fireturd that we swapped an LT1 into.. I particular rad in that swap is a tad to the small side, but so far so good.. They are rather easily mounted to all sorts of things too.. I should start grabbing some of those at the bone yard before they start crushing again...
-
Don't you just love those Free Fixes, Herb. :)
Man i know i do. Way to go
My desktop crashed out Sunday. Super bummed deal.
Just got a hold of a laptop to get by with on the web at least.
Latest updates.
I tried AdvAuto and Carquest on the Taurus rad fan resistor - they couldn't do anything with it. Told them to check early to mid 90's. What year models had that resisitor/switch ?
What year models are you guys talking about on getting the Fan Units from too ??
Did get lucky (i think) at Carquest and bought a generic rheostat/switch for an HVAC blower motor. OFF + 3 speeds.
For $15 ... the dash already has a hole ... so... gonna make some good use of it.
Should i put my 30amp self-reset breaker/relay between the supply and the switch - or between the switch and the fan - to be best ?
Or would a 20 amp self-reset be better/safer ?
Gonna wire it up tomorrow.
The driver tailight went to joggling betwen fixed and not fixed - just sitting in the driveway.
This time i think its really going to stay.
Even put the lense back on.
Going for another test run after fan deal gets going.
Supposed to be scoring a nice set of Sflake wheels for it Saturday.
Go gettem Herb. :thumbs up:
-
I think the resistor was used on pre-"jellybean" Taurus's (Tauri??) ANything '95 and back.. I used the fans from a Jellybean Taurus, but I believe the early 90's ones were just as good...
30 amp shoudl be fine, but it may pay to check the rating of your switch.. I'm kinda partial to relays myself... You can keep the high amp loads out under the hood and close the power supply...
Generaly the fuse/breaker is between the supply and the switch.. That way if there would be an issue due to the switch or the wires too it'll cover everything...
-
Decided not to use the universal 3spd heater fan switch.
So returned it.
Did a test run mock-up before installing it in dash (plastic dash - plastic everything in that area). The resisitor bar just gets too hot for my comfort to be couped up right underneath the plastic a/c vents housings.
But it worked great- fwiw.
Going a whole different direction now anyhow, since i'm getting a new radiator for it.
Going with a used mk2 2spd fan, and a new 2spd rad therm switch.
160 t-stat. New mk2 exp tank and coolant level sensor, wired to a blink light indicator/alarm from Oreillys in the dash.
-
That ought to work dandy..
Those fan resistors are normally mounted out under the hood on the radiator support, or in the path of the fan to keep them cool.. Under the dash would probably be bad juju eventually.. If the resistor didn;t burn out I'm sure it coudl start to melt things...
-
Looks like it was right idea to start looking for a new radiator.
There was a small puddle of green liquid under front this morning and green droplets hanging off the front valance panel.