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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: Chestrockwell on October 09, 2009, 11:07:35 pm

Title: T3 VW and Mercedes Hybrid Turbocharger
Post by: Chestrockwell on October 09, 2009, 11:07:35 pm
My AAZ has a 1.6 T3 turbo and 1.6 manifold. Giles pump, G60 IC. It ate it's 2nd turbine wheel last week and I don't have any more VW ones so I looked at one of the OM 617 sitting in the shop and they have T3's as well. So I pulled a merc turbo and pulled it apart and it turns out that with a little machining and some grinding I was able to put the merc turbine shaft in the vw housing and merc compressor in the vw housing.

The performance gain is unreal! With the straight VW T3 it would maybe get up to 26psi and the egt would peg to 1400 quick. Now it wraps my 30psi gage waaaaay sooner in the revs probably going to 38psi. The EGT stays below 1300.

The merc compressor housing could have been used in place of the vw one, but the outlet is a bit smaller so I machined the vw one to fit the merc wheel.
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y254/ccotter_671/Jett/P1010154.jpg)

(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y254/ccotter_671/Jett/P1010148.jpg)

On the outside they are the same. I might put the merc on one after opening up the outlet a bit.
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y254/ccotter_671/Jett/P1010153.jpg)


The vw hot side housing is smaller port and bore than the merc so I had to open it up. Ended up using lots of layout dye, a cone stone, and a die grinder to get the required clearance. The bores aren't perfect but it doesn't seem to affect much on this.
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y254/ccotter_671/Jett/P1010151.jpg)

(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y254/ccotter_671/Jett/P1010149.jpg)

(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y254/ccotter_671/Jett/P1010155.jpg)

It also looks like the merc downpipe connection is the same bolt pattern as the vw one. If you had a rect. pattern t3 manifold the merc turbo would be easy to fit with maybe just a little mods to the downpipe.
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y254/ccotter_671/Jett/P1010156.jpg)

Assembled hybrid turbo
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y254/ccotter_671/Jett/P1010158.jpg)

(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y254/ccotter_671/Jett/P1010157.jpg)

(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y254/ccotter_671/Jett/P1010152.jpg)

Also changed is the exhaust; it was 2" to the back now it's 2 1/2" from the turbo to the front wheel no muffler. It sounds sick and I'm sure the cops will love it. Ya I know it looks ricer. It works that's all I really care about. The exhaust was changed and run before the modified turbo was put together. The gains from the modded turbo are observed without any other mods.
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y254/ccotter_671/Jett/P1010159.jpg)



Oh ya and I know; it's going to eat T3 bearings and it'll go through trannys ever more too I'm sure. This turbo core has 60000km on new bearings done at the same time as the engine upgrades and bearings are still good.

Also, I attached a 90deg JIC connector to the oil line because the factory vw taper fitting blows goats... and oil.

Title: Re: T3 VW and Mercedes Hybrid Turbocharger
Post by: rabbitman on October 09, 2009, 11:36:23 pm
Good job on the turbo. :o

So is you exhaust loud? Like can you have a conversation while cruising at 65mph without yelling? :D.
Looks cool, I've never heard of dumping the exhaust in front of the front wheel.

Title: Re: T3 VW and Mercedes Hybrid Turbocharger
Post by: FoXBoXRaCiNG on October 10, 2009, 12:09:09 am
That's deadly! That exhaust is intimidating :D
Title: Re: T3 VW and Mercedes Hybrid Turbocharger
Post by: Chestrockwell on October 10, 2009, 07:39:52 am
Yes it's fine inside the car can have a conversation no problem. It's a bit louder outside though even at idle.

It's great because the exhaust is mounted to the engine only; not connected to the body at all so the cab is nice and quiet.
Title: Re: T3 VW and Mercedes Hybrid Turbocharger
Post by: Baron VonZeppelin on October 10, 2009, 10:27:38 am
What year range/series/engine size does that MB turbo used on ? I'd like to hunt one or two.
Title: Re: T3 VW and Mercedes Hybrid Turbocharger
Post by: truckinwagen on October 10, 2009, 10:40:33 am
definitely not a legal exhaust because it exits the car forward of the passenger compartment.
but technically side exits on passenger cars are illegal too.

depends how the cops in your area are, I have been contemplating a hood stack, but don't want to ask for trouble.
Title: Re: T3 VW and Mercedes Hybrid Turbocharger
Post by: rallydiesel on October 10, 2009, 12:01:59 pm
Interesting. Want to build me one?  ;D
Title: Re: T3 VW and Mercedes Hybrid Turbocharger
Post by: rallydiesel on October 10, 2009, 02:48:35 pm
Would you need both cores?
Title: Re: T3 VW and Mercedes Hybrid Turbocharger
Post by: Rabbit on Roids on October 11, 2009, 09:10:46 am
definitely not a legal exhaust because it exits the car forward of the passenger compartment.
but technically side exits on passenger cars are illegal too.

depends how the cops in your area are, I have been contemplating a hood stack, but don't want to ask for trouble.

hood stack FTW!
Title: Re: T3 VW and Mercedes Hybrid Turbocharger
Post by: truckinwagen on October 12, 2009, 11:09:01 am
yeah, but the exhaust is supposed to exit rearward of the passenger compartment, making anything other than out the rear(like the stock exhaust) illegal on cars(pickups can get away with side exit)

being a professional driver, I cant afford to be getting tickets, so I probably wont risk it.
Title: Re: T3 VW and Mercedes Hybrid Turbocharger
Post by: Chestrockwell on October 12, 2009, 01:53:47 pm
Here's a vid. 1st to 5th. 30psi in 2nd gear. Max 130kph. Before I would be lucky to get to 25psi by 3rd gear. 30 is the last # on my gage. EGT peaks @ 1300.

http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y254/ccotter_671/Jett/?action=view&current=P1010186.flv
Title: Re: T3 VW and Mercedes Hybrid Turbocharger
Post by: RabbitJockey on October 12, 2009, 02:14:54 pm
how fast do u end up going
Title: Re: T3 VW and Mercedes Hybrid Turbocharger
Post by: Chestrockwell on October 12, 2009, 05:26:17 pm
Let off @ 130kph
Title: Re: T3 VW and Mercedes Hybrid Turbocharger
Post by: 87octane on October 13, 2009, 02:32:20 pm
what was the improvement in low rpm boost start? originally starting boosting when and now it starts boosting what rpm?
Title: Re: T3 VW and Mercedes Hybrid Turbocharger
Post by: Chestrockwell on October 13, 2009, 10:02:14 pm
Originally I would be lucky to get 8psi in 1st. Now it hits 20 and then 30 in 2nd. I will have to look next time I drive to see what rpm. Look at the video you might be able to make out what it is. The gage is 0-30 in increments of 5psi.
Title: Re: T3 VW and Mercedes Hybrid Turbocharger
Post by: monomer on October 13, 2009, 10:46:20 pm
almost makes me want to rebuild the t3 from my 300d.


it needs a new center section and wheels, though
Title: Re: T3 VW and Mercedes Hybrid Turbocharger
Post by: Rabbit on Roids on October 14, 2009, 09:06:09 am
only 8 in first gear? ive always had over 15 in every gear. even when i had my gay low geared 4 speed. i make about 25 psi with my VNT between shifts. finally pegged my 30 psi gauge last night, and i didnt blow the intercooler apart like everyone told me i would. its a stock volvo unit.
Title: Re: T3 VW and Mercedes Hybrid Turbocharger
Post by: Chestrockwell on October 14, 2009, 06:53:15 pm
8 in 1st with the stock T3. Now it's about 18 in 1st.
Title: Re: T3 VW and Mercedes Hybrid Turbocharger
Post by: gldgti on January 14, 2010, 11:02:46 pm
with my old T2 i could make 20psi in first, now i struggle to make 10. 15 in second, 18-19 in 3rd, and more than 20 in 4th and 5th.

i wonder if its a bad idea to swap the prothe Merc T3 compressor wheel and housing onto my newly rebuilt 1.6TD T3..... the prother compressor wheel looks nice enough and so does the housing - plus the compressor wheel is the lightest part of the rot/assy.
Title: Re: T3 VW and Mercedes Hybrid Turbocharger
Post by: Rabbit on Roids on January 15, 2010, 08:49:23 am
but there could be casting defects that are not detected by the naked eye. i would see if everything balances up. if you can get that wheel to balance on your shaft, you should be fine.
Title: Re: T3 VW and Mercedes Hybrid Turbocharger
Post by: foxracer1 on January 15, 2010, 06:22:31 pm
Do you have measurements of the vw comp wheel vs merc wheel, and vw turbine wheel vs merc wheel?
Title: Re: T3 VW and Mercedes Hybrid Turbocharger
Post by: subsonic on January 16, 2010, 11:09:13 am
related pics.

(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff120/subsonic44/compressor%20maps/t3-50.gif)

(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff120/subsonic44/compressor%20maps/t3-45.gif)

(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff120/subsonic44/t3%20compressors/DSCN0993.jpg)

(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff120/subsonic44/t3%20compressors/DSCN0994.jpg)

(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff120/subsonic44/t3%20compressors/DSCN0995.jpg)

(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff120/subsonic44/t3%20compressors/DSCN0996.jpg)

(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff120/subsonic44/t3%20compressors/DSCN0997.jpg)

(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff120/subsonic44/t3%20compressors/DSCN0998.jpg)

(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff120/subsonic44/t3%20compressors/DSCN0999.jpg)

(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff120/subsonic44/t3%20compressors/DSCN1001.jpg)


Title: Re: T3 VW and Mercedes Hybrid Turbocharger
Post by: monomer on January 16, 2010, 02:50:09 pm
What year range/series/engine size does that MB turbo used on ? I'd like to hunt one or two.

That's a 300 series turbo (300 SD, 300TDT) from the early 80s.  I've got one one the shelf in the garage If someone's interested.  It's in fine shape and functioned perfectly when on the car, but was removed for a VNT installation.  PM...

all 300D's since w115s are turbo. starts in 1979 in America (w123 were the first turbo diesels)


240's are n/a, and 190D's are n/a.
Title: Re: T3 VW and Mercedes Hybrid Turbocharger
Post by: foxracer1 on January 16, 2010, 05:29:42 pm
I've been playing with measurements. a friend measured my t3 wheel and i thought he said it measured as a 35 trim. I've heard the merc charger is a 50 trim. I've been mapping my engine combo on various maps and the 50 trim looks the best.

I wondered how different the turbine was from the stock vw turbo. I don't wanna lose any spool down low but would like to play around with maybe getting some better flow up top.

I did some pump rebuilding in trade for a merc t3 so when he finds a merc t3 its mine to play with.
Title: Re: T3 VW and Mercedes Hybrid Turbocharger
Post by: subsonic on January 17, 2010, 08:46:32 pm
I thought our t3 was a wierdo 42 trim?
Title: Re: T3 VW and Mercedes Hybrid Turbocharger
Post by: foxracer1 on January 17, 2010, 08:54:10 pm
I need to double check i didn't measure it my self so i can't claim 100% accuracy.
Title: Re: T3 VW and Mercedes Hybrid Turbocharger
Post by: OM617 on January 18, 2010, 12:35:32 am
all 300D's since w115s are turbo. starts in 1979 in America (w123 were the first turbo diesels)
Incorrect. Only 1982-1985 models are turbo. 1975-1981 are non-turbo.

Quote
related pics.
The OM617 uses a 45 trim compressor, not 50.
Title: Re: T3 VW and Mercedes Hybrid Turbocharger
Post by: gldgti on January 18, 2010, 03:29:48 am
....and, i thought after measuring the stock vw T3 that it might be a .38 trim.... hahahaha!
Title: Re: T3 VW and Mercedes Hybrid Turbocharger
Post by: foxracer1 on January 18, 2010, 12:33:33 pm
all 300D's since w115s are turbo. starts in 1979 in America (w123 were the first turbo diesels)
Incorrect. Only 1982-1985 models are turbo. 1975-1981 are non-turbo.

Quote
related pics.
The OM617 uses a 45 trim compressor, not 50.

So what years/models have a 50 trim compressor?
Title: Re: T3 VW and Mercedes Hybrid Turbocharger
Post by: monomer on January 18, 2010, 03:41:49 pm
all 300D's since w115s are turbo. starts in 1979 in America (w123 were the first turbo diesels)
Incorrect. Only 1982-1985 models are turbo. 1975-1981 are non-turbo.


crap, forgot about the couple of years of w123 n/a's.


300D W124's also had a T3, I have one sitting out in the garage. Looks to be a little smaller then a 50 trim.
Title: Re: T3 VW and Mercedes Hybrid Turbocharger
Post by: foxracer1 on January 19, 2010, 03:01:32 pm
Damn i really want a 50 trim was hoping to find one on a popular stock vehicle. Migh just source a 50 trim wheel and just have the housing machined.
Title: Re: T3 VW and Mercedes Hybrid Turbocharger
Post by: OM617 on January 19, 2010, 11:39:21 pm
So what years/models have a 50 trim compressor?

1986-87 300SDL and 1987 300D.

The 1990-1996 300SDL/350SDL/300SD/350SD have a 55 trim compressor.
Title: Re: T3 VW and Mercedes Hybrid Turbocharger
Post by: foxracer1 on January 20, 2010, 06:26:28 am
K thanks. Hope those are the common ones in our junkyard.