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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: smutts on September 16, 2009, 03:46:16 pm
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1.9 AAZ and 1.6 diesel cams.
Just a quick question, can these cams be swapped? Though I doubt that I would be so lucky. ::)
Cheers for looking. ;D
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they are interchangable, and i think they are the same, but i am not 100% certain
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They are different in regards to lift and duration. No idea on the interchangablity.
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Wouln't it be similar to upgrading the Cam in a Gasser? I know you can go to a 286degree cam on an ABA
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During my AAZ build, we looked at cams and installed an early hydraulic 1.6TD shaft. It works great and is slightly more agressive than either the late 1.6TD or AAZ shafts.
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Do you have a VW part # on the early 1.6 TD cam?
Are there any aftermarket grinds anywhere?
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you really dont need an aftermarket grind. these cams work great already. dave cross used to make aftermarket cams for them, but there was such little demand and little performance gains that he just phased them out of production. you might be able to find a different cam for another pound or 2 of boost a little sooner, but thats about it.
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So, will the 1.9td cam definately fit a 1.6td?
Just looked up the oil seals, which are the same, pulley is the same, from memory the block length is the same, just taller. So, am quietly optimistic. The only worries are journal sizes and coil binding if the lifts are to high, and lots of other things that I will have missed. :P
You will save me a Saturday of pulling a cam at the breakers and a Sunday of teaching my neighbours kids lots of interesting new words :o if somebody knows for definate that it won't work. ;D
Cheers for all your help. 8)
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From what I have compared, the 1.6 has shorter duration for both intake and exhaust and each opens later. I think you would be better off with the AAZ cam.
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From what I have compared, the 1.6 has shorter duration for both intake and exhaust and each opens later. I think you would be better off with the AAZ cam.
Not true, but you'll learn ;)
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;D
I think you would be better off with the AAZ cam.
;D
Things are looking up then, Do the AAZ's have the similar pistons? Like no valve cut outs? So the that the 1.9's cam isn't expecting a nice pocket in the flat 1.6's piston crown as it leaves a valve hanging down?
In short there is no overlap in the valve timing? ???
Happy days are here again! ;D
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Not true, but you'll learn Wink
Or not. :P
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From what I have compared, the 1.6 has shorter duration for both intake and exhaust and each opens later. I think you would be better off with the AAZ cam.
Not true, but you'll learn ;)
Would you care to post some data then or are you just trying to be a smart-ass?
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the 1.6 and 1.9 pistons are identical(except for the larger bore pin diameter etc...)
the tops look alike, no valve pockets etc. on the 1.9
as for cam specs, the stock cams are probably going to be very similar and hard to tell the difference between performance wise as they both have the same design restrictions(no overlap, close proximity to piston, etc...) that are VERY tight, there is little room for differences.
that being said, I intend to modify a cam gear to install an ABA cam(-1.2* overlap, but lots more lift/duration) to my next build.
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From what I have compared, the 1.6 has shorter duration for both intake and exhaust and each opens later. I think you would be better off with the AAZ cam.
Not true, but you'll learn ;)
Would you care to post some data then or are you just trying to be a smart-ass?
I'm much too old to be a smart-anything, young buck. ;)
I have experience on my side. Try it and see. The difference is miniscule, but the early 1.6 cam is stronger.
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This is some data that fspGTD collected from a SAE paper. It pertains to the solid lifter cams. All the solid lifter cams (1.5, 1.6na, 1.6TD) were the same until the hydros came out.
Below are the 1.6lD / TD camshaft specifications, from the 1.6lTD SAE paper. I hope this information does the trick for calculating the optimal intake manifold runner length:
"The intake valve has a maximum valve lift of 8 mm. Intake opening is at 5 degrees aTDC and intake closing at 14 degrees aBDC where both timings are rated at 1 mm of camlift. The maximum valve lift of the exhaust valve is 9mm, with opening and closing at 27 degrees bBDC and ~ degrees bTDC respectively. Intake valve clearance is 0.2 to 0.3 mm, and exhaust valve clearance is 0.4 to 0.5 mm. All these geometrical dimensions are identical with that of the 4-cylinder naturally aspirated Diesel engine."
If more information is necessary, I might also have a plot of the cam displacement vs rotational angle as well (IIRC, such a plot exists in the original 1.5l VW Diesel SAE paper.)
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And from TDIMeister's cam database:
AAZ cam (@ 1mm lift):
Intake valve opens -6.0, closes 20.0.
Exhaust valve opens 25.5, closes -6.5.
Max lifts aren't listed.
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;DThanks for all your help!
My weekend is now booked and will let you all know how I get on. ;D
Just need some earplugs for the neighbours kids. :o
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Well, no AAZ's at our local friendly breaker, so an early TDi cam out of a Mk3 passat it is. Unknown miles, which is a nuisance as the mileometers in these things are electronic, so who knows? :-\. Just for the interested the lobe measurements were, Base circle 37.98mm, Best Tip to Base 46.28mm, Worst 46.12mm.
So lift would be assumed as 8.3mm. But looks as though some wear is on its way. 0.16mm, but hopefully it will make less racket than the present occupant. Wish me luck. ;D
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Cam specs as taken from my Peter Russek Pocket Mechanic manual
Valve Timing - Up to 1985 - 1.6 L
Inlet valve opens........5 ATDC
inlet valve closes........13 ABDC
Exhaust valve opens....27 BBDC
Exhaust valve closes...5 BTDC
Valve Timing - from 1986 - 1.6l - JK and RA engine
Inlet valve opens........6.5 Atdc
inlet valve closes........13,5 ABDC
Exhaust valve opens....25,5BBDC
Exhaust valve closes...6.5 BTDC
Valve Timing - 1.9l - 1Y and AAZ
Inlet valve opens........6 ATDC
inlet valve closes........20 ABDC
Exhaust valve opens....25.5 BBDC
Exhaust valve closes...6.5 BTDC
Valve Timing - 1.9 l - 1Z
Inlet valve opens........16 ATDC
inlet valve closes........25 ABDC
Exhaust valve opens....28 BBDC
Exhaust valve closes...19 BTDC
Hope this helps
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:)Cheers for that, but I'm not too worried about timing, as both cams would have a piston sitting at TDC with bugger all gap to the valve heads. Valve lift and base circle would be good, but I will know in an hour as it's going in now. Lots of swearing in T Minus sixty five minutes. 8)
Tourettes Engineering Services :P
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Hmm....... Deep thought. Just measured the cam as is in the engine. This is a SB engined GTD, so should be the real deal, Base Circle same or similar to above 37.98mm No.1 cam peak I measure 46.82mm, No.2 is 45.80mm, No.3 is 46.81mm, Oh joy, clapped cam, I have found it! No.4 45.82mm WTF says I, No.5 45.82mm, depression setting in, No.6 46.80mm, No.7 45.82mm, No.8 46.82mm. So the good news is I have a fine camshaft, If I have it right, the valves go EIEIIEIE, if so then Exhaust lift is 8.84mm ish, Intake lift is 7.84mm ish. Weird, go figure. ???