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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: 87octane on September 14, 2009, 12:52:40 pm
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I've got a "mutt" motor assembled from way too many mismatched parts and I need help identifying what each part is so I can order replacement parts. I'm guessing this might be a 1.6 block bored out to 81 mm bore. The stroke measures out real close to 86.4 so maybe that's where the crank came from. Engine calculator gives me about 1780 cc's. The fellow who built it 3 owners ago can't remember any of the particulars. Any help appreciated.
The piston crown:
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e129/87octane/vw%20diesel/P9154704.jpg)
Piston crown clearly marked 80.985 and "+". What piston is this?
What rings would match this piston? The engine needs rings in all 4 holes, hole 2 is dead at 140psi, the remaining holes are 250 dry/350 wet. They started out all 4 at 380 before the carnage.
Block:
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e129/87octane/vw%20diesel/P9154705.jpg)
Is this a 1.6 block? A 1.8?
Here's the headgasket:
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e129/87octane/vw%20diesel/P9154708.jpg)
Is this a "one notch" ? Can anybody count holes and reference me a part # ? or thickness ???
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Wow, someone has clearly installed gasser pistons in your Diesel block...
Looks like a 1.9 AAZ block. Need code off block to be sure though.
Scary stuff..
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The guy who sourced the bottom end said something about 1987 Scirocco 16v 81mm pistons cut to clear the crank, but I can't find any matching 16v pictures to back that up. Anybody seen 16v pistons before?
Here's what I can see so far
Could it be an unmolested 2.0 block from south of the border?
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e129/87octane/vw%20diesel/P9154734.jpg)
How bout that head:
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e129/87octane/vw%20diesel/P9154732.jpg)
cyl head casting # and other marks:
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e129/87octane/vw%20diesel/P9154731.jpg)
Obviously hydraulic but is it an AAZ?
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those are 16V pistons. a 1.8 gasser is like 1789cc or something like that. looks like a whole 16v bottom end actually. i bet anything its a PL block out of a later scirocco 16v.
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Its an AAZ Head
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Was that motor running if it had a gasser bottom end?
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Where's the block code located?
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If it is an AAZ Block, somewhere on the block should say 1.9TD/D. Or if its a 1.6 it will be 1.6TD/D. IF there is somehting else there Post what it says.
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cyl head intake ports are D shaped:
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e129/87octane/vw%20diesel/P9154729.jpg)
Intake manifold ports are oval shaped:
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e129/87octane/vw%20diesel/P9154722.jpg)
Matching paper gaskets on the spacers:
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e129/87octane/vw%20diesel/P9154715.jpg)
Is there an intake manifold that fits the AAZ head port exactly (i.e. D shaped intake ports)
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How bout the IP. Looks like a 1.6 with the top screw?
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e129/87octane/vw%20diesel/P9154709.jpg)
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e129/87octane/vw%20diesel/P9154710.jpg)
Andre in Salt Lake City thought the IP adjustment looked very aggressive, very rich. Haven't touched it yet till I get the bottom end sorted out.
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I'm not gonna publish names of those responsible, they may be board members....
Feel free to PM me for private conversation, I have extensive notes.
I limped this dog from Jackson Hole WY to SLC before it expired completely. >:(
Hey, at least the T3 is good ;D
May as well get it right while it's on the bench.
Is there a port matched AAZ intake manifold that's an improvement over the 1.6 design.
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any AAZ or TDI intake will bolt right on.
the pad on the front of the block, just to the right of the main front oil drain, there should be something on there. whats it say? and is there a D or a 1.6D or a 1.9D or 1.9TD on the back of the block down behind the starter? if it doesnt say any of those, its not a diesel block.
and i really dont understand why people try telling other people that their diesel is running rich. they are pure idiots if they think you can run a diesel rich and lean. the amount of fuel going in controls engine speed, not mixture. there is no fuel ever introduced to the intake charge until its compressed in the cylinder and is almost to top dead center.
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I've heard of guys using diesel short blocks for bomb-proof high compression gas engines. I've never heard of this though... :o
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Automatic to boot. I'm shocked, and impressed that she ran.
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i noticed that too, starter is on the wrong side.
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No automatic. 5 speed Suzuki gear box with 5.13's: 63 mph in 5th gear is all she wrote.
Finally found the block ID pad. Dr. Frankenstein ground off the numbers so you can't read "Abby Normal" (or whatever it used to say...)
Still need to know what IP that is. Anybody recognize it?
And about that head gasket, how many notches? What thickness?
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I would say that is a 1 notch head gasket. According to the Bentley that is for engines with piston protrusion between 0.66mm and 0.86mm on a hydraulic engine. That is for 1.6 engines though, I'm not sure if the AAZ is exactly the same.
What is the part # on that IP?
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just get a proper diesel full engine - this is way too crazy, gasser block, gasser pistons - If you look at the VW white paper on developing the 1.5 diesel, it says that they had to work the engine to very very minute clearances for the diesel compression pressure to accomplish - thats why our diesel pistons use a strut in them and have fused alphin carriers on the top piston ring lands - less expansion and solid design for uber high compression. The liners were hardened also.
Thats why better get a proper AAZ and drop it in there.
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I've heard of guys using diesel short blocks for bomb-proof high compression gas engines. I've never heard of this though... :o
Guilty as Charged. ;D
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I've heard of guys using diesel short blocks for bomb-proof high compression gas engines. I've never heard of this though... :o
Guilty as Charged. ;D
Does that even work? ??? that would be one sick gasser lol
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and i really dont understand why people try telling other people that their diesel is running rich. they are pure idiots if they think you can run a diesel rich and lean. the amount of fuel going in controls engine speed, not mixture. there is no fuel ever introduced to the intake charge until its compressed in the cylinder and is almost to top dead center.
AMEN !
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I've heard of guys using diesel short blocks for bomb-proof high compression gas engines. I've never heard of this though... :o
Guilty as Charged. ;D
Does that even work? ??? that would be one sick gasser lol
Not sure, but I'm about to find out. Just got some oversized 1500cc gasser pistons, 76.95 to go in an 11mm headbolt 1.6D block and crank I have. Planning to use the diesel rods to get some piston protrusion, shooting for 15:1 static compression or so. Building a dedicated E85 engine, so dynamic will be down in the 13:1 area to run 105 Octane E85. :D
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after seeing that...got me thinking...Ive got a nice AAZ shortblock...find a 2.0L head and see what happens ;D
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I thought I was on the vortex side of the webs when I saw those 16v pistons. that guy musta had alot of parts kicking around to come up with that one. must have sounded wonderful topping out at 63 ;D.
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I'm just shocked it ran at all really..
I have a 1.6 TD engine about 60 miles south of SLC if you REALLY need one..
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that really doesnt look like a diesel block. and since you cant tell and it has no nothing anywhere, i would just junk it. how are you going to know what to order parts for? im still thinking its a PL 1.8 16v gasser bottom end. and you have no future building a diesel engine out of it if it really is a 16v short block.
on another note... you could take an AAZ, bolt a 16v head on it, and then throw about 150 horsepower worth of LOL to it.
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Without seeing the engine displacement stamp on the back of the block, I'm tempted to believe that motor is an actual diesel block, perhaps with the 16v pistons.
See that green stripe on the block, that is specific to later hydraulic diesel blocks (1986-up). Early Rabbit blocks were painted all green. Later blocks were black with a green stripe. It's hard to replicate the VW color and pattern. That motor has the paint stripe in the exact spot as diesel blocks. I figure that VW painted all the blocks black, and simply painted the diesel blocks with the stripe to differentiate them, rather than have 2 completely different paint programs.
Given how sloppy our Dr Frankenstein was, I don't think he went thru the trouble of trying to replicate the original paint program. My guess is he bored a 1.6 (TD??) block and was too cheap to buy new pistons and used the 16V pistons. The only odd part is the "Made in Mexico" stamp on the back of the block. AFAIK, all diesels in the US after 1985 had the blocks cast in Germany, and ALL hydro blocks in the US were of German manufacture (they only came in Jettas after 1987, and those were all made in Germany). I think the block may actually come from south of the border.
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looks like a gas block and headgasket.
first off both the block and gasket use the locating pins, gas blocks and gaskets use these locating pins.
also if you look at the piston tops, they were getting way too close to the valves, so obviously the gasket was not thick enough.
my guess is that it is a 1.8 gas bottom end with the diesel stuff put into it(im shaft, vac pump etc...) with a diesel head slapped on it.
interesting idea actually...
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It LIVED???????!!!!!! :o Even twitched would have been a suprise! ;D
I can't work out whether to laugh till I puke at the absurdity of it, or send my condolences, or shiver with fear that I will one day meet a similar lunatic Frankenstein. :P
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looks like a gas block and headgasket.
That does look quite like a 1.8 block. Here are some pictures of mine when it was apart. Note the alignment pins and the extra coolant passages between the cylinders.
(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i98/codymckay/tmpphpd6tSAu.jpg)
I'm pretty sure that's a diesel head gasket though. It appears to have the metal re-enforcement for the swirl chambers.
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;DBetter budget for some new tappets judging by those kisses on the pistons, did it stop when the cam cap studs pulled out?
This bodger is amazed at the vastness of the optimism vs technical ability ratio shown by this thing. Maybe it was done for a bet? ;D
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UhOh! Have I just killed the thread, or am I in a weird time zone? :'(
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UhOh! Have I just killed the thread, or am I in a weird time zone? :'(
Thread murderer! :o
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Finally it's official. It's a 1.8T gas block, rods and pistons, either a PL or PF. It threw me, having a vacuum pump and all. Thanks to Zulfiqar for the 1.5 SAE white paper to understand the radical changes to the diesel piston and ring grooves. Explains nicely why the gas pistons/rings fail so quickly. Also explains why the anonymous engine builder was scared ***less of any boost on this particular engine. So now I need a complete TD bottom end and other misc to put it back on the road. Chasing leads... AAZ stuff is rather scarce and rather spendy on ebay this week. I'm leaning towards cutting up a 1Z intake for my AAZ head/T3 combo. Might shove a Suzuki intercooler in the middle for grins. It's off to the wrecking yards to see what awaits my attention...
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its not a 1.8t they never made a 16v 1.8t. its a scirocco engine. a later one. 1.8 16v. the 20v 1.8t engines had even different pistons. and a diesel head wont come close to fitting on a 20v block. that engine is a PL, bet my left nut on it.
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its not a 1.8t they never made a 16v 1.8t. its a scirocco engine. a later one. 1.8 16v. the 20v 1.8t engines had even different pistons. and a diesel head wont come close to fitting on a 20v block. that engine is a PL, bet my left nut on it.
We'll remember this is if that engine turns out to be more of a mutt than we know, and some weird combination that looks like a PL but isn't a PL block. ;D
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Second vote for PL. Pistons are not 8 valve gasser nor 20 valve (1,8T) gasser. And block is not 20v.
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Yeah, I think the 1.8t blocks have 3 oil drains across the back. I vote PL.
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and this engine actually ran for a short time?
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I think you can just make out the CCV breather behind the injector pump. Looks just like the ones used on the PL blocks.
The head gasket looks to be 1.9 AAZ cause its metal.
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has anyone noticed the breather block off cover? pretty sure its specific to Audi 3A blocks that were swapped into other rides. may be wrong, but i know that is a gas engine specific piece. 3A's had distributors too. hence why it had a vac pump. but whatever tweeker built this engine must have been one hit away from an overdose the entire time he was building this engine to get soo many mixed up and mis matched parts on one engine. this thing is worse than a frankenstein conglomeration.
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So I'll buy the PL concensus. The next juicy tidbit from the builder is "how to get 16v pistons (on 16v rods) to stick out of the block far enough to get some compression". Answer: aftermarket gas +1 mm stroker crank from Germany. I guess that makes the stroke 87.4 and the displacement slightly over 1.8.
The PO(#1) claims he paid for the "rebuilt diesel engine" and drove it 8000 miles over one year, no problems other than a worn out injector. He added a grease car conversion during the 8000. He sold it to PO#2, supposedly perfect, with grease system disconnected. PO#2 drove 800 miles from Denver to WY over the continental divide 8000 ft pass, probably deep into boost the whole climb, and landed at home with another bum injector. PO#2 knew nothing about diesels or engine building or turbo boost or EGT or french fry oil, he just wanted a 4x4 for his ranch. (It's a suzuki sidekick 4 door with 5.13 gears, 5 spd, etc).
I drove it 300 miles from Jackson Hole to SLC, initially it was slow, smooth, bad turbo lag, but would spool up to 10-11 if you stuffed it to the floor and left it there long enough. Took 3 psi just to sustain 60 mph (5.13's in the diffs).
But it just kept getting worse and worse, and eventually couldn't idle, no power. Confirmed bad injector in the #2 hole and really lousy compression results (dry/wet) 1 250/350 2 140/150 3 250/350 4 250/350.
I don't think PO#1 had any idea about the internals, and I don't think PO#2 had any idea about anything except that he might suspect that he cooked it coming over the pass. I'm sure the rings were weak when I started. I knew the injector was bad but the nearest replacements were in SLC so I just drove it till it died.
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Answer: aftermarket gas +1 mm stroker crank from Germany.
;D Yup, that must be the simplest way round! ;D
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They Need an Award.... MORON MECHANIC OF THE YEAR AWARD :D
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;DThis needs a bump! ;D
Just so the world can admire the skill and craftsmanship! :P
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...that is pure stupidity. you dont make a 1.9 diesel out of a stroker gas engine. thats the dumbest thing ive ever heard. the guy who built this engine, did he smoke a pound of crack every day when he was building this engine? cause his way of thinking was severely clouded.
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Bump for the epic-ness contained in this thread...
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Bumpity Bump.
;D
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My guess is that the original builder lives South of the Border. I'm about 15 miles from TJ and used to go down there all the time as part of my job. I have seen some amazing things hacked together (that actually worked) and this would fit right in. When you have no money you so whatever you have to get by, and some of these guys are the masters of hack.
If that's the case, I applaud him ;D
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they most certainly didnt have +1mm german stroker cranks just laying around in mexico... not likely anyways..
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Cuba! :)
Good friend of mine went there years ago, swears he saw an old man filing a set of piston rings by hand.
Every day, all day, making rings by hand.
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Gee I didn't know. Done before with stars and fireworks. Well, I'll be dipped.
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Cuba! :)
Good friend of mine went there years ago, swears he saw an old man filing a set of piston rings by hand.
Every day, all day, making rings by hand.
like, 100% hand made, or hand gapped?
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Hand made twas said.
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Hand made twas said.
wonder how round they were? lol..
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Got me, heard some wild stuff out of there about machines.
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You guys are good. I have some sort of mongrel VW gasser block living under my bench I will have to show you.