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General Information => Upgrades (non engine related ) => Topic started by: madrogers on August 17, 2009, 08:04:03 pm
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Just a feeler , my 83 caddy winter beater has ok heat for most of the winter but when we gets to -30 degree day it just does not cut it, I like to be nice and toasty, the heated seats help but I was thinking of :
A- removeing the a/c core and installing a second haeter core in its place I thought i could plumb it either in series with the org. core or run seperate line to it thoughts???
B- leave the org heater alone and install a second core/fan under the dash behind the glove box.
C- I have got an diesel fired aux webastsco heater from a hyw truck I could install behind the seat or in the box.
any thoughts / what have other people done for extra heat?
Thanks Mark
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Make sure the heater core is flowing properly, then try covering the grill/radiator with something.. Chances are the engine itself just isn;t making enough heat...
I block 3/4+ of the radiator with a piece of card board in the chillier months.. I have to watch the temp on warmer days, esecially when sitting and idiling.. Still working on some sort of louvers that could be opened and shut (automatically woudl be nice, but manually will suffuce) darn Pennsylvania weather is rather erratic, can start the day freezing and end it in a t-shirt..
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the engine does stay up to temp and i do cover the rad . I have also made up a wind deflector to keep the direct cold air off the oil pan that hangs down, when i scan the coolant lines they are 180ish going in and 120ish comeing out , so its heating the air but it seems the be lacking in size (the core). but like I say it just on the coldest of days (we get our fair share here).
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higher temp thermostat?
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You must do what we saw in our town last winter...Dodge Minivan...with a piece of sheet metal over the back passenger side window....And the best part.....A STOVE PIPE STICKING OUT WITH SMOKE COMING OUT OF IT!!!!!!!!!!!! :o
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You must do we saw in our town last winter...Dodge Minivan...with a piece of sheet metal over the back passenger side window....And the best part.....A STOVE PIPE STICKING OUT WITH SMOKE COMING OUT OF IT!!!!!!!!!!!! :o
HAHAHAHHAAH Reminds me of that epidose of Top Gear where Jeremey did the "Quaint My Car" Of course I drove a Cj5 with a propane buddy heater screwed down to the floor.. ::)
Anywho, Hmm definitely sounds like things are warm enough.. A hotter t-stat wouldn;t hurt till warmer weather.. Then if you're like me you be nervously wathing the temp gauge all the time...
I'm not real familier with the MK1 A/C cars, but does the A/C recirculate the cabin air? A heater core in place of the A/C evaporator may be the way to go if it does.. Even if it doesn;t recirc you could get a pretty big **sed heater core in there.. Otherwise if there would be some way to recirc the cabin air versus warming outside air you would probably see alot better heat. I been rolling such an idea around for my non A/C MK1..
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a hotter t-stat would help but the engines are touchy enought when they get to hot , my old nissan truck had a recirculate air option that would help but then the windows start to fog up from the humidity.
I think I am going to go the way of adding a core behind the glove box with a fan that would move the cabin air though it , there is a fair amount of room behind there once the a/c lines are removed.
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I don't think many of you realize where he is .It's Winnipeg !!! :(
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I just notice that....poor you
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Yes, it can get extremely cold (read: arctic-like) on the prairies. I remember one highway commute where my mk5 never really heated up inside. I put a cover over the grill and this helped a lot. Interesting thing about the mk5's is that they have a 1500W electric auxiliary heater next to the heater core.
Maybe you could replace the a/c evaporator with a 1500W electric heater. Make sure to stick a big fuse on it. The mk5 has a 100A fuse for the electric heater.
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Get a coolant flange from a manual trans TDI . It has 3 glow plugs in it to help heater output . 1,2, or all 3 work depending on what the ECU decides on temp. Use 1 or 2 relays and big fuses to get some heat. I'm gonna do it as soon as i have a second reason to open the cooling system.
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I like the heater flange ideal, will have to look out for that , I think that if i put the 1500 watt heater in, there would be no power left to drive the truck.
P.S. I live just outside of Wpg. no cpmplalants, the air is clean, we have the most sunshine hour wise here than anythere else in Canada,(no clouds) (well maybe not this summer) and well its a dry cold in the winter.
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"and well its a dry cold in the winter."
i'm sure you are telling yourself that when it's -1000
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A friend of mine who is an old farmer {They can make anything work} had a Toyta Tercel wagon that didn't make enough heat to suit him and he couldn't get the heater core out so he atualy used the A/C evaporator as a heater core and it worked pretty good. I didn't think it would flow enough but it really worked. Why not try splicing yours in somehow before you try something else. My 81 Rabbit has some kind of aftermarket A/C system on it with the evaporator in a box like thing below the glove box which then blows through the stock vents. Naturaly the A/C compressor is long gone but I think just for the hell of it I might just try this trick myself this winter since we're talking about this. All I use it for now is to turn it on to activate the engine cooling fan when I want to bring the temps down a little sitting in traffic and it will really bring it down fast too! I might as well use that evaporator too, what the Hell, the hoses are already there sticking out of the firewall waiting to be hooked up to something. I bet in those litte Caddy cabs you could be just about be able to melt the dash if you wanted too ;D
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My 84 rabbit had killer heat. You could never leave it on full heat, even in -40. I always run the hottest thermostat available.
I'd recommend back-flushing the core (and the rad while you are at it) and if that's not enough then install an auxiliary electric water pump found on the passats. That should help keep the coolant flowing through the rad. You might also need to fiddle around in the cooling duct box thing. Only the defrost and floor? gets heat, the dash vents are always fresh air. If you have air leaking out before it can get through the heater core that will cool the interior down a lot. It also wouldn't hurt to make sure that the air has a clear easy path through the heater core. And if you are feeling really ambitious put some relays on the blower motor so that all those amps don't have to run through the switch.
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I thought of ruuning coolant thu the a/c core but the littel tubes at the inlet side seem like they would not flow to much but if you add them up it would probly = a 3\8 inch pipe , a person would just have to flush the oil out of the core.
I had flushed the heater core out and it seemed clean and flowed , I will take a closer look at the heater doors to see if it may be mixing cold air in with the hot in the heater box, I have a spare heater box out of the car so I can see how it all works .
I havent heard of this electric coolant pump the passats have , what years and where is it located ??
I have removed the a/c vent ducts from the box and taped them closed so no leak there.
Thanks for everyones input.
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Never even though about those aux water pumps.. I have on on my rabbit to help with heat output.. Although the reason my heat sucked was because I also have the coolant circulating though heat exchangers for WVO...
If you looking to score one at the bone yard, Mercedes used the electric pumps too starting in the late 70's/early 80's... as well as Chevrolet/Pontiac/Olds Minivans from about '98 up.... Not sure where they are on the Passat, but on Mercedes they are mounted on the fire wall near the center, on the GM products they are mounted on the left fender brace...
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I have a passat electric water pump on mine, it helped only a little bit. Then I installed a auxilery heater, the kind that you pipe water through and it has its own fan, strangly it blows smoking hot air ;D, so hot it almost burns me. It will get the interior up to 80F @ -40F outside. (I have a inside/outside thermometer)
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thats what i was looking to hear about , there did you take your coolant from?? Did you just y-bone into the other heater lines or run off some where else. I was thinking of running lines off the oil cooler in series with it, what did you us as a heater?? Thanks.
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thats what i was looking to hear about , there did you take your coolant from?? Did you just y-bone into the other heater lines or run off some where else. I was thinking of running lines off the oil cooler in series with it, what did you us as a heater?? Thanks.
Yup, I y'd into the heater inlet hose and after the coolant goes through both stock and aux heaters (parallel paths) it y's back together. The weird thing is even after new heater cores, sealing the heater box and making sure the flaps seal, the stock heater only gets warm. The aux heater has no reason to be any hotter yet it is very hot. The passat pump pushes the water through both heaters.
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thanks for the info Rabbitman.
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You are missing some of the basics, because a MkI is about the toastiest thing on earth in the winter (outside of a Mk II)!
First of all, the thermostat makes a big difference. Check around for the highest value you can find (note, it might exceed the rad switch, so you may have to put a disable switch on the fans).
Second, the water pump is probably the single biggest suspect. If an old Mk1 has had it's pump replaced, and you end up with some mickey mouse (sorry Walt) stamped steel impeller, it will cool the engine, but it won't circulate through the heater core. You need to be certain you have a European, QUALITY water pump with a decent impeller.
Make sure your water valve is fully open (no joke, the cable can slip).
DO NOT, I repeat DO NOT mix anti-freeze other than exactly 50/50. Higher viscosity from too much glycol changes viscosity a lot and again, won't circulate to heater core.
Block the cold air from the grille, AND the areas below. While it is true that the thermostat DOES do all of the water temp regulation, the blast of cold air on the highway cools off the rest of the engine and the firewall something awful.
There IS the possibility that over the years, your heater core is fouled from cooling system junk. I am not so sure that flushing will work, but it is worth a try (that is, a chemical flush). After that, your option is only to replace the core (they do not have infinite life, so not a waste of time and money).
Forget adding a few glow plugs to the circuit. While it won't hurt anything, I doubt you will find any actual benefit (except keeping more load on the engine idling). You don't have nearly enough alternator to run a 1,500W resistance heater.
Which brings us to the next point: bump up the idle speed so it can warm up when parked, and keep the headlights on high beam, heater full one, rear defrost, all electrical loads full on to load the engine.
There are some TINY Webasto (second choice) or Espar (Ebserpacher, first choice) heaters for both air and water, but man, are they pricey. I have one (water) in my pickup (7.3 Ford/IHC) and it will warm the engine AND CAB from -40 in less than an hour. Kiss a grand goodbye for these, though. I would make the car work right before getting silly.
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Maybe you can try some insulation on the floors and other areas. I don't know to much about it but it makes sense to me 8)
http://www.lobucrod.com/index.html (http://www.lobucrod.com/index.html)
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Well its done ,I flushed out the heater core and got some more bad stuff out and used a heater fan/box/core to build a aux heater what fits under the dash behind/under the glove box. it has the 3 speed switch and fits nicely.I have looked into and checked some of the other comments and I belive i'am readly for winter, so bring it on.
Thanks for everyones input, Mark.
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Keep us posted on how it works!
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Mark,
They need to put a bubble over Winterpeg. Every time I've been there in the winter I've had to run my truck on full idle and blast the heater in my sleeper to keep warm enough to sleep. I also have to add methyl hydrate to keep the fuel from gelling. Also the hydraulics on the trailer can't be used half the time without busting a fitting, what a dose.
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Ah, you guys are wimps. Winnipeg is the BANANNA BELT. Head to Thompson for a winter or two and get a taste of actual winter.
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aux water pump from a mercedes help me out last winter.
You'll also get more heat at stops, when coolant flow is normally low.
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Ah, you guys are wimps. Winnipeg is the BANANNA BELT. Head to Thompson for a winter or two and get a taste of actual winter.
You guys from Thompson always flapping yer gums about cold like you have a market on it.
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Hell, Thompson was the SOUTH end of my territory when I lived up there. We'd come home to warm up in January.
Now, let me see: Thunder Bay - that's so far South it's almost in another COUNTRY!
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Hell, Thompson was the SOUTH end of my territory when I lived up there. We'd come home to warm up in January.
Now, let me see: Thunder Bay - that's so far South it's almost in another COUNTRY!
Sunny Coppermine (now tuktoyuktuk), now that was cold. We still had snow and ice, when Thompson had green grass. For the record Southern ON treats us like another country.
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Yeah, THAT is the North, for sure. When we first went to Thompson, it was the South end of my territory, but the NW extreme was North of Yellowknife. Never got to Tuck. But of all of those areas, Churchill was about the worst. Had 50/50/100 days clear into late December (50 below, 50mph winds and 100% humidity from the open water of Hudsons Bay). I have climbed out through 5,000 feet of "ground drifting" after chipping an inch or so of rime ice off the North side of the airplane on the ground.
BTW: I always figured the best solution to Canada's political problems was to divide the country somewhere around Sudbury on a North/South axis. Let Ontario deal with PQ and leave the rest of us alone to just go to work and take care of business.
quote author=macka link=topic=20887.msg170282#msg170282 date=1256737168]
Hell, Thompson was the SOUTH end of my territory when I lived up there. We'd come home to warm up in January.
Now, let me see: Thunder Bay - that's so far South it's almost in another COUNTRY!
Sunny Coppermine (now tuktoyuktuk), now that was cold. We still had snow and ice, when Thompson had green grass. For the record Southern ON treats us like another country.
[/quote]
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Pat,
I have a buddy that flies a twin turbo otter for the gov out that way. If you see a short sawed off no haired grey bearded guy on the flight line with an ocean and fisheries plane. Ask if he is from Nipigon and if he is, ask him how many smelt can be stuffed in a file cabinet. ;D