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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: jwspin on July 07, 2009, 09:13:14 am
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one of my buddies with a vr6 has this tiny little gel cell battery that fits almost anywhere, id like to move my battery so i can put a small startup diesel tank under the hood for my veggie kit. does anyone have any experience with the small performance batteries and diesels?
-jared
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there are no performance batteries, I started a 1.9 TDI with a 10Ah gel battery, and it cranked nice. (a few times)
for racing you try to get the most unnecessary weight out of the car, so, no ICE, no cold starts, no lighter..
as the performance of lead batteries (CCA) is affected by temperature, you can run a smaller bat in the summer.
only advantage is weight, its a modification only done after ICE is gone
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i was refering to a performance battery as a small battery that has high CCA.
this is the one my buddy has,
http://www.usrallyteam.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=14_37
if it will last and crank over my diesel year round then it may be worth looking into so that i can relocate the battery and it wont take up a lot of extra space.
-jared
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I was also want to relocate the battery, I was thinking reworking the entire electrical system so I could have two smaller batts
one in the front, really close to the starter but not on the stock position for starting
and another under the dash for powering the commodities(small ICE)
I also plan to use a smaller alternator and reduce power consumption altogether (less bulbs, replaced by leds, xenon bulbs (35w instead of 55))
this is case when "less is more" 8)
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why not just locate a conventional battery to the trunk? It won't last or crank over your diesel all year round. The vr6 takes less then half the power to crank then a 1.6D does. There is NO WAY you will start a cold diesel with one of those tiny batteries.. after you have to crank and crank and add in GP's.
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I was also want to relocate the battery, I was thinking reworking the entire electrical system so I could have two smaller batts
one in the front, really close to the starter but not on the stock position for starting
and another under the dash for powering the commodities(small ICE)
I also plan to use a smaller alternator and reduce power consumption altogether (less bulbs, replaced by leds, xenon bulbs (35w instead of 55))
this is case when "less is more" 8)
Just to clear something up for me, since I'm confused (not hard to do :D), but what do you mean by "ICE" here?
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BLING. LOL Any power acc im assuming lol
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simple, its a compromise
over here we never see less than -2~3ºc
relocating a conventional battery to the trunk just adds weight, think about 4 meters of heavy gauge copper wire..
on a TDI it would be easier, as it needs less cranking power (lower compression) and virtually doesn't need glowplugs on these climates
on a normal car we need big batteries for commodity, so that the user doesn't have to know what a battery is, push button, it works period.
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In Car Entertainment
yes, BLING ;D
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simple, its a compromise
over here we never see less than -2~3ºc
relocating a conventional battery to the trunk just adds weight, think about 4 meters of heavy gauge copper wire..
on a TDI it would be easier, as it needs less cranking power (lower compression) and virtually doesn't need glowplugs on these climates
on a normal car we need big batteries for commodity, so that the user doesn't have to know what a battery is, push button, it works period.
True True.. but the OP lives in New York. They get cold winters, and it isn't a TDI. That means long cranking and lots of GP glow time. A tiny battery such as that will simply not suffice...
p.s I have never heard it referred to as ICE... I like that lol
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yeh i was thinking of moving the battery to the trunk but im also going to have a larger veggie tank in the rear and im trying to keep the weight down all around due to the extra liquids im going to be carrying. i originally posted because i didnt know if there were any small batteries out there that packed a big punch.
thanks for all the input
-jared
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has anyone ever tried a gas starter in a diesel? did they try starting a cold diesel with one? apparently not..
the gas starters are .7 hp, the diesel ones are 2.1 hp. thats 3 times the turning power... and probably pretty close to 3 times the amperage draw. why do you think powerjokes and cummins rigs have 2 batteries? they gotta have enough juice to get everything fired up.
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This is what the bentley says,
I used a gasser starter for a little while, the 77-84 books says the diesel one is 1.5hp and the gasser one is .7hp. It worked ok, I never had to use it in the real cold but I think it would've been noticably gutlesser at about 0F.
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rabbitman and his rabbit
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has anyone ever tried a gas starter in a diesel? did they try starting a cold diesel with one? apparently not..
the gas starters are .7 hp, the diesel ones are 2.1 hp. thats 3 times the turning power... and probably pretty close to 3 times the amperage draw. why do you think powerjokes and cummins rigs have 2 batteries? they gotta have enough juice to get everything fired up.
There was a thread here a short time ago.. the guy could not start is IDI... turned out the problem was slow cranking because he had a gasser started w/ 1/3 the required power.
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Having set VW gasser and diesel starters side by side... yeah, big difference. I've been stockpiling longitudinal diesel starters for a while now, and when the starter died on my gasser Quantum I popped a diesel starter in there instead.... big, big difference :o
The high compression atkinson engine I'll be building for it next will have that same diesel starter on it, simply for the increase in cranking speed and the low starter load.
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yea, gas starters work well if you have between 7-10:1 compression, they dont work so well if you have 24:1 compression.
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so is the power indicated on the "sticker" the max power required by the startermotor when first cranking (1700w) ?
it's to get an idea for cable sizing ...
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sticker on the battery?
or sticker on the starter?
????????????????????????
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Cable Sizing? Just use a 0G and you will never have to worry about how much it can handle. I've seen them used to power 6500W sound systems. I'm sure the starter doesn't pull anymore than that. Even most big engines have like a 4G wire. To be safe Go Big Or Go Home. :)
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8vof,
My big truck runs 00g wires from the batteries to the starter. Also back on subject, you can get spiral cell batteries, but if you go that route, go with the brand name, not a house brand spiral cell.
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has anyone ever tried a gas starter in a diesel? did they try starting a cold diesel with one? apparently not..
the gas starters are .7 hp, the diesel ones are 2.1 hp. thats 3 times the turning power... and probably pretty close to 3 times the amperage draw. why do you think powerjokes and cummins rigs have 2 batteries? they gotta have enough juice to get everything fired up.
There was a thread here a short time ago.. the guy could not start is IDI... turned out the problem was slow cranking because he had a gasser started w/ 1/3 the required power.
Exactly - some bosch reduction starters look like the vw diesel ones but are gutless, rated at about 1.2 kw only - you need at least 1.7 kw to spin the IDI mill - or get a modern TDI or mercedes CDI hybrid starter on it, it works amazing
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8vof,
My big truck runs 00g wires from the batteries to the starter. Also back on subject, you can get spiral cell batteries, but if you go that route, go with the brand name, not a house brand spiral cell.
are you referring to optima style batteries?
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yes, some type of sealed gel spiral cell battery.
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why dont you hook up a pull rope and bust out the spinach with some popeye arms to start it that way? no battery required as long as you have good compression ;D oh and don't forget to take the guts out of the stop solenoid... and then find a creative way to stop the engine.
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why dont you hook up a pull rope and bust out the spinach with some popeye arms to start it that way? no battery required as long as you have good compression ;D oh and don't forget to take the guts out of the stop solenoid... and then find a creative way to stop the engine.
i was actually looking at my buddies antique buick today that has a crank starter in the front and wood wheels, how about a nice big crank arm out the pass side? i have had a few vws that would only start with a bump start maybe ill go that route again....