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General Information => General => Topic started by: BlackTieTD on September 14, 2005, 11:31:50 am
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i'd like to put an MF-code, 1.6L TD engine into a pre-67 type 2 aircooled bus chassis (walk-thru). any leads to point me to some info? obviously cooling will be an issue, shift linkage (thinking about going automatic if it will fit), and there will be a lot of misc fabrication just to get it in there and lined up etc.
there might be a whole lot more to this than i am considering, so please enlighten me. :)
some background: i bought a rabbit pick-up (caddy) project last year with plans to put said 1.6L TD motor into it and head cross country... or maybe a few countries. i havn't put too much into the project yet, so i can still back out without feeling like i'm throwing much away. i think an old bus will be not only a more practical solution from a comfort/space/usability standpoint as a cross-country camper-type vehicle, but in my opinion they are one of the more unique and interesting body shapes on the road (thats secondary, but definitely a huge bonus).
yes, i could get a hardtop for the back of the caddy, but its still not the same as a van. you can't really get in and out of the back of a caddy easily... its more of a cargo hauler than a cross-country trekker... i mean ideally i'll fix up both and see if its practical to keep them both on the road when i turn 25 next year.
any thoughts/opinions welcome.. :)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v133/deluxemike/IMG_6008.jpg)
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That'd slick as a greased pig on ice. I bet you could find a lot of conversion parts. I know a lot of people like to put water-cooled engines into air-cooled chassis. Since the blocks are a pretty close match.... Hmmm.
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i found some good info...
http://volksweb.relitech.com/robw.htm
havent read anything about transmission compatibility yet... wondering if i can use the aircooled box, would make everything much easier..
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most of the info i've found so far has been for vanagon... i need to learn more about the old type 2 buses to see if i can adapt a vanagon conversion kit.
here is a 1.9L TD in a vanagon:
(http://www.fastforward.ca/vanagonswap/19TDInstallation.jpg)
sexy
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just found this...
http://frost.bbboy.net/vwengineconversions
diggin in......
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Has that bus been lowered? All the ones I've seen seem to ride alot higher.
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ya that ones bagged :o
different bus, cool pic... lowed out:
(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a83/dopeshizzz/Friday/DSCF3314.jpg)
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1.6L TD in here vvvv
(http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/pix/874658.jpg)
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One of the most enjoyable and memorable winters of my lost youth was spent touring the southern states in a $250 '66 Splitty that I called the L.o.B. (Loaf of Bread). Those vans are a sweet ride, and with Dub diesel power you could get maybe 40 mpg or more? Now that's a diesel pusher RV I can get excited about!
More info about aircooled/watercooled swaps can be found here:
http://www.shoptalkforums.com/
Look in the "Conversion Perversions" (I kid you not) forum
Also at the "Volks Swap" site that you've already found.
Of course the lads at Kennedy Engineered Products are the guys you need for adaptors:
http://www.kennedyeng.com/
I'm going down the same road with a Kennedy kit I just scored on ebay, only my 1.6TD is going into a '65 356 SC.
Beware of the Turbo Tub :lol:
moT
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Hey, I'm not the only one with this crazy idea! ;) (I have a '78 Westy with the 2.0l pancake motor. I always thought it would be soo cool to have a TDI engine in there! :twisted: ).
btw, I do have a friend doing the Vanagon swap (as I mentioned at the GTG.) I'll let you all know when he's done :).
Just for fun; here's my Bus :)
(http://www.siegconsulting.com/LVW/vwimages/busmay2105.jpg)
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Nice buss VW Scully!
I see a Canadien emblem on the driver's door though...so close from Toronto, that's rare!
The problem with watercooled engines in aircooled models are that everything has to be fab'ed up...which can be a pain.
The weight advantage is insignificant with the A1's...
But if you like trouble, you've got your pick! :wink:
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One of the most enjoyable and memorable winters of my lost youth was spent touring the southern states in a $250 '66 Splitty that I called the L.o.B. (Loaf of Bread).
thanks for the URLs and your comments. i saw your posts over there about the porsche, very cool :twisted: most people i've talked to who have driven around an old splitty have nothing but fond memories and funny stories. kind of like rabbit drivers actually! good luck with your project and make sure you keep us posted.
btw, I do have a friend doing the Vanagon swap (as I mentioned at the GTG.) I'll let you all know when he's done :).
Just for fun; here's my Bus :)
nice bus scully. my friend across the street just fixed up one like that, but tan paint. when he was done, we wanted to take it camping but the guy he was doing the work for came and picked it up before we got the chance. :cry:
i want to hear more about that TD vanagon. thats a step in the right direction for me anyway. i'd like to have a look sometime if they get it on the road.
I see a Canadien emblem on the driver's door though...so close from Toronto, that's rare!
actually not too rare rammstein. there are a lot of habs fans around this area.. there has been such a rivalry through two or three generations now. i think that a lot of ontarian habs fans developed a liking for them watching them play against the leafs over the years... or their father did and passed it down. also, many people have moved here from quebec. i like the dynamic. there is always a hardcore habs fan in any bar here when they are playing the leafs. makes for good rivalry! :lol:
The problem with watercooled engines in aircooled models are that everything has to be fab'ed up...which can be a pain.
The weight advantage is insignificant with the A1's...
But if you like trouble, you've got your pick! :wink:
all valid points. i'm taking my time with this and i'd like to do a fair amount of research, maybe see one or two swap vehicles in person before i even buy a vehicle to try this with. i want a project i can be proud of, enjoy driving, and make good practical use of when i'm done... if i can manage a TD into a splitty, i'll be one happy CAMPER.
i certainly do not possess a lot of the skills required (or equipment for that matter) to make something like this work. yet! we'll see :twisted:
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i would be interested in the technical aspects of this, espically concerning the engine to transmission adapters.
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check out these guys for adapters...
http://www.kennedyeng.com/
not much info on their site. i'm going to order their catalog for $3.
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Hey guys;
Ack, I should have edited that emblem in the pic on the side of my Bus; that's my boyfriend's team! If I had my way, it would look like this!! :twisted:
(http://members.porchlight.ca/brianhutchen/VW/busmay2105leaf.jpg)
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Right-on sister!!! Yeah!! "Go Leafs Go" 8) :lol: :roll:
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ordering up some desktop motivation... :roll: :lol:
(http://i24.ebayimg.com/03/i/04/30/c1/3a_1_b.JPG) (http://cgi.ebay.com/VW-VOLKSWAGEN-Splitscreen-Samba-Micro-bus-1-24-model_W0QQitemZ5999995747QQcategoryZ1190QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem)
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On the tdi conversion list at yahoo groups there is a pic of a tdi powered splitty, it has been done already. Mexico had bay window water cooled buses for years, the parts are closer then you think...
Greg
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ive been wondering about this aswell lately, ive got a 66 bug that i want to put my 1.6 n/a into, i just got the car and haven,t had a chance to jack the car up and size up the rear subframe and such
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On the tdi conversion list at yahoo groups there is a pic of a tdi powered splitty, it has been done already. Mexico had bay window water cooled buses for years, the parts are closer then you think...
Greg
i'm sure it has been done a few times before. i posted this thread to try to bring some knowledge from prior builds out of the woodwork. i'm not so much concerned with getting a rad in the bus, but more with getting the motor mounted properly in the vehicle. maybe i should do some searches for mexican buses and see what parts i could make use of...
ive been wondering about this aswell lately, ive got a 66 bug that i want to put my 1.6 n/a into, i just got the car and haven,t had a chance to jack the car up and size up the rear subframe and such
there is a lot of info regarding swaps into bugs. TONS. click some of the links on the first page of this thread.
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just called kennedy engineered products and spoke with a very friendly lady. she took down my address (without asking for spelling on all the canadian stuff :shock: ) and sent the info out free of charge. i like these guys already. :)
give them a call if you need a catalog.
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got my catalog a few weeks ago. quite good for explaining the different options that are out there for odd-ball engine installs in many types of VWs, porsche, etc. i will definitely be going with KEP for the adaptor plate.
my project caddy sold and was hauled away last weekend :( ...so the splitty-hunt begins. :twisted:
if you know of any 1967 or earlier bus for sale, canada or the US, please let me know!
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Where in Ont. are you? I saw a Splitty Campmobile sitting in front of a VW repair place in St. Regis Falls NY a couple of weeks ago. That's about 90 min. south of Ottawa. Looked a little rusty along the bottom but complete, grass growing up around it, so it hadn't moved in a while. Next time my son or I go that way (it's on the way to his school) we'll stop and ask about it.
moT
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thanks much moT. if you could get a name of the shop i can call and enquire...any other info you can get for me would be great! :)
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Sorry, I can't remember the name of the shop :oops:
We stopped and looked around because they had all kinds of V-Dubs lined up all along the road. We love places like that! It's about 2hrs from my home, so I can't just run over there and look.
I'll try emailing my son, his grey matter might be a bit more reliable then mine!
moT
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hehe thanks for the effort moT :D
(http://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/151179.jpg)
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#1 son just came home from college for weekend, say's shop is "Murphy's Garage", 518-856-9568. Campmobile still sitting there --
Here's my desktop motivation:
(http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/9/web/2145000-2145999/2145693_10.jpg)
And here's what can happen with one of those Kennedy kits, if you're not careful:
(http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/9/web/2145000-2145999/2145693_9.jpg)
I'm just living in fear that those guys from the "356 Registry" may be sending a death squad after me :roll:
moT
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thanks very much moT! i will call them later on today :D
(http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/pix/940816.jpg)
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the photo i put up in the last post was eluding to the '66 i was hoping to buy out of Connecticut.
here's the rest of the pics:
(http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/pix/940815.jpg)
(http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/pix/940817.jpg)
(http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/pix/940818.jpg)
(http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/pix/940819.jpg)
(http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/pix/940820.jpg)
(http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/pix/940821.jpg)
(http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/pix/940822.jpg)
(http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/pix/940823.jpg)
the description:
BODY-Walk through with 6 pop outs.Easy fixer upper,can be ROAD READY in a weekend!Was on the road until 1 month ago.OG from New Mexico in "01.SUPER CLEAN UNDERSIDE!!!(only lite surface rust,NO ROT!)Nose has a dent near bottom(not that bad)Nice bumper,valance and EXELLENT og dog legs!Front floors have a few small holes(PERFECT under seats!)A few holes in the rockers and doors.All rust will be visable in pics.Rear corners real solid,nice battery tray.Comes with 2 new tinted windshields!The roof had a vent that was removed and welded up(its dented were it was welded up,poor patch job that should be redone,not THAT bad-the hole was maybe 1sqr ft.(worse part of the bus.)ALL new brakes,drums,w.cylinders,hrd ware....with under 1k!Good rubber too.Full 12V conversion with "67 trans,wiper motor...and a FACTORY rebuilt 1500cc engine with aprox 50K!Has new stock exhaust,clutch kit and more.
a Connecticut local was nice enough to offer to go look at it for me and did so last night. it checks out as described, super solid, no bondo or bad bodywork (except roof patch). all rust and small rot holes are easy patch fixes. wired $ last night, its coming home to the stable in a few weeks. :)
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some more good stuff:
cutaway of a '62 panel:
(http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/tech101b.jpg)
this is a '61 kombi, mine is a '66 kombi but most, if not all of this will still apply:
(http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/data2.jpg)
see that unladen weight?? :D i had no idea they were so light. that is great news.
complete 1966 Owner's Manual (http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/aug65.php) (from August 1965, mine was built September 1965) - about 80 pages
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found on type2.com that:
highway driving '66 splitty with a 1500cc and ~2500Ibs curb weight
22-24 MPG
(edit: '66 kombi owner manual says 24.3 MPG)
in my past experience:
highway driving '82 rabbit with 1.6L TD and 1860Ibs curb weight
41 MPG (at least... that's actually mixed highway/city)
now the question is, what would a 1.6L TD motor do in that splitty? would be pushing about 700Ibs more weight and have even worse aerodynamics than a rabbit. any guesses?
(a good number to have would be, what MPG would a bug be able to get on the highway with a 1500cc motor. the aerodynamics of a bug will be closer to the rabbit than the bus is.. might help with guesstimating)
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Based on the performance of several '82 diesel camper vanagons upgraded from the 1.6D to the 1.6TD (as well as 1.9TD and 1.9TDI), I would think that you could plan on 30+ mpg (US gallons, slight better for Imperial gallons) for highway cruising.
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thanks for the info VWRacer.
as great as that fuel economy sounds, i am regretably going to hold off on the TD engine install into the bus until a later date. the 1500cc flat 4 in the bus is running strong on a recent rebuild. besides, i now have an entire bus interior to find, fix and fit.. and all the bodywork. TD motor will still happen, just not this winter as i had hoped.
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Glad to help...have fun! :D
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thanks :)
stumbled on this: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=209462
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Have you seen this site yet?
http://www.fastforward.ca/
I found it when I was looking into a diesel powered double-cab, my dream work truck.
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thanks for the link traktor. i contacted them in the fall and they told me to buy a vanagon instead :lol:
i got the bus home to the shop on december 28th. i will post pictures and some details of my trip another time.
the 1500cc motor runs really well so i'll be leaving that in for this summer's expeditions... but something else is always on my mind....
this is tempting:
(http://i14.ebayimg.com/02/i/05/d5/4b/63_1.JPG)
more (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fsearch.ebay.com%3A80%2F%2Fsearch%2Fsearch.dll%3Ffrom%3DR40%26satitle%3D8026809644%26fvi%3D1&item=8026809644)
...but i'm working up to the 1600TD ;)
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been ordering parts from cip1.com.
other smaller shops (like marks bug barn in hamilton) order their stuff from cip1 then add a markup... so why not order from cip1 directly??
we're still working on getting the shop properly sorted....hopefully in a couple weeks the fun (see: work) begins! :twisted:
edit: here's a pic
(http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/2381/bus023fd.jpg)