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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: barrygti on July 04, 2009, 02:32:25 am
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What other engines out there are prime for tuning in the same way the IDI engines are?
I am thinking along the lines of a BIG power project. I don't mean a Cummins, something that may still fit in say an Audi 100/5000 or a BMW E30 etc etc.
Is the Chev V8 any good as it seems to put out pretty terrible power for size...... I assume a Turbo or two would help...
I know of a V10 Touareg engine but it's a bare engine and getting it running out of a Touareg would probably be a nightmare.
So what do you guys think? ;D Any great ideas out there?
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the inline 5 cylinder audi/vw lumps are good. Old merc 300d's are monsters, loads above 500hp!
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500!!!!! :o
I will go searching now, that would make a coooool daily drive hahaha.
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If you want cheap and cheerful tuning get a 1.9 PD, a simple remap will give you loads more power - let alone some real mods.
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I am running a 1.6/1.9 engine in my Skoda pickup that's cheap and cheerful hahaha, I was just interested in what else is out in the diesel world...
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Reasonable prices the 1.9 TDI PD from the MK4/Bora/etc is decent and you can get some high figures from them.
The Chevy V8 is pants. Really.
If you can, give the V10 Toureg a go, it's all about getting the wiring sorted.
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Here's an e30 with a twin turbo v12.
http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=116916&highlight=v12+twin+turbo
I'm sure that thing makes some big power, not diesel but wtf. Bmw didn't start making good diesel motors until a few years ago, the m21 was a good motor I guess but not good for big power.
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If you have room for a chevy v8 [which are garbage] why not a ford powerstroke ? I always wanted to put one of those into the 80's model mustangs
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if i was using one of the big 3's diesels it would no doubt be a cummins.
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Go for the V10. I covet that engine.
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The trouble for me at least is the availability of engines in New Zealand, most stuff is Japanese. Would be VERY hard to find a Powerstroke or Cummins. Seen a few Chev V8's and a fair amount of Farm/Boat stuff but not much automotive based stuff.
V10 Touareg engine is a non start really, would need all the ECU parts for it to run and then have to code out lots of features. A guy got it in to fit to a boat here and then realised it wasn't that simple.... But yes a great engine, not as good in my opinion as the Audi 4.2 TDi(except in the R50) and no where near as good as the V12 Audi :D
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The trouble for me at least is the availability of engines in New Zealand, most stuff is Japanese. Would be VERY hard to find a Powerstroke or Cummins.
How about Mercedes 300 engines? om603 or 606 (w124 and w210)
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Very few of them too, I have seen the odd 300d non turbo for sale but never seen a turbo diesel.
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The trouble for me at least is the availability of engines in New Zealand, most stuff is Japanese. Would be VERY hard to find a Powerstroke or Cummins.
How about Mercedes 300 engines? om603 or 606 (w124 and w210)
602 is more popular. inline 6's never came turbo'd.
190e 2.5 with the 5speed and a turbo from a 300 is most popular (manuals never came turbocharged either)
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I am completely lost with these Mercs.......
What is the "good" engine, inline 5 or 6 and 2.5 or 3l???
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Original turbo engines are good. 2,5 5-cylinder and 3,0 6-cylinders. And yes, 6-cylinders came with turbo too. Older 3,0 5-cyl is pretty bulletproof too, mut not that easy to make high hp.
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The OM 602 and OM603 turbo engines are probably the best bets here.
They can make huge power without any real internal mods. Just add a big turbo, good intercooler and big exhaust, a WELL built pump, and you can make anywhere between 300 and 500 hp. Above 500 hp is very possible too, with some internal work.
The OE 'thin head' turbodiesels gave 'only' 125 (5 cyl) and 147 (6 cyl) horsepower in turbo form, but you still need a OE turbo engine as a starting point. The N/A variants aren't as good for retro-turboing.
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I would defiantly stay away from the v10..... maybe a little time (as long as it would take to put it on a pallet and send it to me ;) )
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Chevy V8 engines are garbage?
lmao... theres quite a few chevys in my shop that would turn all of our diesels, hot rods, whatever, into pure mince meat.
and powerstrokes are way WAY bigger than a small block chev 350.
powerstroke = 1000 some odd pounds?
Chevy small block = 5-600 lbs depending on how its dressed.
Chevy big block = 7-850 lbs depending on block and how its dressed.
And for cummins engines, they are damn near 40" long. they are a nightmare to make fit in something that didnt come with a friggen V16 from the factory. my buddy did a ford-cummins swap a year or so ago, and he had to re work his entire firewall pretty much. and put 3 inches of body lift in it just to clear everything.
But yea, whoever thinks chevy V8 engines are crap... you dont really think about it, but think about how many chevys there are on the roads. 350 small blocks are one of the most plentiful engines, if not the most plentiful engine on the planet.
how often do you see chevys that have fallen apart around the engine/trans? lots! and how many chevys do you see with over 250k miles? lots... my brothers powerjoke has been in the shop 47 times since 2006 for warranty work and trans problems, and turbo problems and this, that, and the other problems.
dont really have much room to degrade cummins, they are good engines, well the 12 valve ones at least.
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I think they mean the 6.2 and 6.5 liter v8 diesel engines.
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dont really have much room to degrade cummins, they are good engines, well the 12 valve ones at least.
Well I do. Their 24v and industrial 6bt based engines are pure crap. Leak worse than an aircooled VW (we joke about getting a contract with Exxon to drill behind our buses for new oil), noisy SOBs, they devour turbochargers and EGR equipment, and we replace lift pumps about once a year per bus.
In the three years I've worked with the bus company, we've blown the headgasket on nine buses, replaced thirty two turbochargers (On a fleet of 26 buses) and had many, many days of the engines just refusing to start.
I know I've spoken well of them in the past, but I'm finally getting fed up with giving all the love and not feeling any in return! >:( Come on, Cummins, get with the bloody program!
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In the three years I've worked with the bus company, we've blown the headgasket on nine buses, replaced thirty two turbochargers (On a fleet of 26 buses) and had many, many days of the engines just refusing to start.
Thats an issue with the technician skill. Instead of just parts-swapping, diagnose the problem and try to fix it. 32 turbos on 26 buses means there is a problem with driver abuse, improper tuning, improper installation/repair work or intake contamination (poor air filter design). The EGR equipment is a given, no Diesel should ever have an EGR.
A Cummins should have no problems starting cold. The 6BTA in our 1992 Ottawa Commando 30 (with several thousand hard hours) will start in 0*f with no aid (intake heater or ether). Check for shrinking fuel hoses (air leaks), make sure the intake heaters are working and that the drivers know how to start them (and that they aren't just getting in and cranking like their g@sser car).
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I know I've spoken well of them in the past, but I'm finally getting fed up with giving all the love and not feeling any in return! >:( Come on, Cummins, get with the bloody program!
Sounds very similar to the issues had with teh 6.7's used on the Dodge trucks from 07.5 and on... I blame 95% of the issue on that damned EGR... I wanna find the engineers that had that bright idea, and kick them excessively...
Our former service truck had one of the very early ones.. Finally found that the no starts were directly related to the heater in the air intake being covered in soot.. Clean it every now and again and it was fine.. Same with the Turbo failures.. The hair dryer was cleaned twice and then finally replaced and a new ecm flash done.. It helped, but just as it was nearing the end of the 100K engine warrenty it started acting up again.. Got it replaced and sold that POS...
The EGR can be blocked on the later one's without issue other than a CEL.... You can get away with it on some of the earlier ones with the most recent PCM flash.. Yet there are still a few of the earlier ones out there (like the one we had) that go into limp mode every time you even look at the darned valve and consider unplugging it..
I think I could have made something to make the PCM think the EGR was there and working, but after 2 transmissions, ball joints, differential, wheel bearings, and the countless times it was at the dealer for warrenty related issues on the engine it went...
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Thats an issue with the technician skill. Instead of just parts-swapping, diagnose the problem and try to fix it. 32 turbos on 26 buses means there is a problem with driver abuse, improper tuning, improper installation/repair work or intake contamination (poor air filter design). The EGR equipment is a given, no Diesel should ever have an EGR.
I won't deny there is a parts-throwing mentality, but the other problem is that these buses are running around with light duty truck grade parts in their engines. A 250hp engine dragging a 26k pound empty weight bus around all day in a city environment is being pushed hard every time, it simply cannot survive without highly durable parts. Cummins is the company that's been called out for every blown turbo and every headgasket issue, so the parts-throwing is their problem, not ours. That's a legitimate gripe with Cummins.
A Cummins should have no problems starting cold. The 6BTA in our 1992 Ottawa Commando 30 (with several thousand hard hours) will start in 0*f with no aid (intake heater or ether). Check for shrinking fuel hoses (air leaks), make sure the intake heaters are working and that the drivers know how to start them (and that they aren't just getting in and cranking like their g@sser car).
That was a '92, a major design difference from the '02 ISB02 engines that are based on the 24 valve 6bt design. We don't have folks just getting in and cranking because there is a computer lockout that prevents the engine from being started for a ten second period while all the systems go through their self-checks.
The no-starts are usually traced to a sensor failure. Crankshaft position sensors that aren't reporting proper position, temp sensors, and one that had an intermittently bad injector harness for the common rail injectors.
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Original turbo engines are good. 2,5 5-cylinder and 3,0 6-cylinders. And yes, 6-cylinders came with turbo too. Older 3,0 5-cyl is pretty bulletproof too, mut not that easy to make high hp.
3.0's had head problems, 3.5's had connecting rod bending problems.
2.5's were bulletproof (mine made it to 421k miles...) The w124 is arguably one of the finest diesels on the road.
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3.0's had head problems
Those are "user errors", just like Vw head cracking problems too. No problems with big turbos and when used right.
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The 3.0L I-6 is known to support 300hp with bone stock internals.