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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: 92EcoDiesel Jetta on June 18, 2009, 12:01:55 pm
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(http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss184/EcoDiesel/Photo_061409_003.jpg)
This is where my 92 Ecodiesel temp gauge sits on the highway doing 65 mph. I calibrated the gauge (in boiling water with an ohmeter and thermeter) and at the position of the needle in the pic, the coolant temp is a little above 212 F. I measured 84 ohms in a pot of boiling water when I calibrated it. Iit measured 79 ohms in the car (lower is hotter).
I am curious where your coolant temp gauge sits in your Ecodiesel and if you can, measure the resistance of your sender. It's easy if you have a DVM, After getting the car up to steady temp, pull the connector on the sender (the one on top of the flange) and measure the sender resistance.
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what thermostat do you have ? Have you calibrated it on the stove too ? Sounds a bit hot to me.
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Too hot dude.
Like asked above, what thermostat do you have in it?
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I have not checked the thermostat yet since it's such a PITA to get to. I will do so when I do the timing belt/tensioner/water pump. I also will put in a new thermostat which I will also test in hot water before installation.
While we're on the subject of temperature? What should the cyl head temp be? Oil temp?
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I can't say right now what the actual resistance is but that looks way hot to me :o I have an autometer temp gauge tee'd in the same place as the stock one and it reads pretty close to 210 on the autometer with the needle right in the middle of the stock gauge and I;m running a 180 thermostat {German} and I've had no luck with the Autozone ones. I run around 175-185 cruising when it's 75 or less outside on the flat at 75 mph with a fully cleaned [cooked radiator and block} with a good 180 thermostat. It will climb to 210 on a mountain pull at 70 mph with 7 lbs boost and the factory gauge reads right in the middle just llike it did on the other engine. That needle scares me, I'd hate to see it at 95 degrees outside on a mountain or idling in stop & go traffic, does your automatic fan come on at that position on the gauge? But You really have to verify it with another gauge too even if you don't want it mounted just for a check wheather your's has been calibrated or not and just try another sender also they are pretty cheap anyway and get a 180 thermostat also. It doesn't take long for the temps to climb if it's already at 195 to begin with. As easy as it is to screw these things up from too much heat plus boost on top of it I wouldn't take any more chances unless you know what it's reading for sure one way or another.
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I can't say right now what the actual resistance is but that looks way hot to me :o I have an autometer temp gauge tee'd in the same place as the stock one and it reads pretty close to 210 on the autometer with the needle right in the middle of the stock gauge and I;m running a 180 thermostat {German} and I've had no luck with the Autozone ones. I run around 175-185 cruising when it's 75 or less outside on the flat at 75 mph with a fully cleaned [cooked radiator and block} with a good 180 thermostat. It will climb to 210 on a mountain pull at 70 mph with 7 lbs boost and the factory gauge reads right in the middle just llike it did on the other engine. That needle scares me, I'd hate to see it at 95 degrees outside on a mountain or idling in stop & go traffic, does your automatic fan come on at that position on the gauge? But You really have to verify it with another gauge too even if you don't want it mounted just for a check wheather your's has been calibrated or not and just try another sender also they are pretty cheap anyway and get a 180 thermostat also. It doesn't take long for the temps to climb if it's already at 195 to begin with. As easy as it is to screw these things up from too much heat plus boost on top of it I wouldn't take any more chances unless you know what it's reading for sure one way or another.
Maybe I have the wrong sender in mine which is making the stock gauge read higher than it should? That's why I'd like to know what the resistance reading is on yours at a given needle position and temperature.
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Good chance that that gauge itself could be whacked.. Old factory electric gauges aren;t the most precise critters.. The majority of them work as well as an idiot light, enought to tell you when it's too late, but not enough to have you at the dealer for warrenty claims... Get an aftermarket gauge on there then you are sure...
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I can't say right now what the actual resistance is but that looks way hot to me :o I have an autometer temp gauge tee'd in the same place as the stock one and it reads pretty close to 210 on the autometer with the needle right in the middle of the stock gauge and I;m running a 180 thermostat {German} and I've had no luck with the Autozone ones.
What type of problems have you had ? I'm about to put one on my project and I was thinking the 195 degrees was a bit high even with my turbo.
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I was thinking the 195 degrees was a bit high even with my turbo.
What temp T-Stat you running??? My N/A Runs sligtly below the middle or 200 deg most of the time... On a hot day going up a mountain it has crept up to 210 but never goes higher, and drops back to 200 once the load is off... Diesel engines like it a bit hot anyhow so 195 - 215 shouldn;t be too bad... Heck most vehicles now days (gas or diesel) can get up to 225 before the fans cycle...
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Most OEM coolant temp gauges I've seen has a red mark danger zone. My EcoDiesel does not! Is there an overheat warning light? If so, where is it and where is the sender for it? I can really use an owners manual for a 92 EcoDiesel. Anyone have an extra one they can part with?
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I took out the old Wahler T stat,(87 C), tested it in hot water and it did not open after 3 min in boiling water. My new Wahler 92 C T-stat (in the same pot) opened before it boiled. The old stat differs from the new one in that it has a rubber seat on the part of the T stat that moves so its a rubber to metal seal. The new T-stat has no rubber seat so it's a metal to metal seal. I used a screw driver to push on the old T-stat all around and was able to make it move, un-sticking it (if it was stick), and put in boiling water again but it still would not open. My guess is that it probably does open at a higher temp than 212F? otherwise I would have overheated my engine?
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Also check what temp it closes at.
If your thermostat doesn't have a small hole in it, drill one. 1/8" is good.
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There was a gasket between the old T-stat and the water pump housing. The new T-stat came with a flat gasket as well as an o-ring. However, fig 4-8 in the cooling system section of the Bently does not show a gasket between T-stat and water pump housing, only an o-ring between the plastic flange and the T-stat. Is the Bently right or wrong?
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The T-stat fits a number of generic applications, some of which need the flat gasket.
Your application just uses the o-ring.
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Vince, are you absolutely postively 100% sure that there should be no gasket between T-stat and WP housing? It looks like there is a pretty deep recess into the alu.minum WP housing and the T-stat would be floating around in there wothout the gasket.
What's the deal with the spring hose clamps? Is there a special tool? I use a vise grip on them and the tang on the spring clamp is butting agains the clamp itself preventing it from opening further.so that I can't move the clamp over the bead on the flange to free the hose. It seems that tang has to be lifted above the clamp for it to fully open. Another PITA!
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Vince, are you absolutely postively 100% sure
100%. It's the housing that needs to be sealed, not the t-stat itself... now that you've got a Bentley it calls out the assembly sequence pretty plainly... figure 4.8 on page 9 of Chapter 4 "Cooling".
What's the deal with the spring hose clamps?......... Another PITA!
... and yet brilliantly self-adjusting to expansion and contraction, unlike generic worm-type clamps.
The correct tool makes them really easy... someday I'd love to own one, but in the meantime I usually use a big pair of water pump pliers. You need to grab 'em in a way that lets you push past the tang.
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I like the self tensioning of spring clamps also. I use them on fuel lines where ever I can. It's the tang that's the PITA! I'm gonna take a Dremel to them and cut that f***in tang off! Any reason I shouldn't do that?
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i think the tang is really only there to prevent over opening of the spring..so as long as you remember there is no tang.. it can only benefit you to cut it off.. :P
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I think the tang is there to make you buy their special tool as I don't see how you can over open it unless you make a special tool to do it. If there is a limit to how much these clamps should open, I will start with cutting half of the tang off and see if that's enough.
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my guage sits on the 4th mark from the right. ive tested all my sensors and fans, etc all works. The fans kick on in low speed at the 3rd mark from the left and ive never had the high speed come on.
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100%. It's the housing that needs to be sealed, not the t-stat itself...
The only concern I'd have, if the T-stat is not sealed to the housing, is that any leaks will in effect bypass the T-stat.
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my guage sits on the 4th mark from the right...
So it's sitting on the 1st mark on the left? ???
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You're gonna sandwich it in there tight with the o-ring... it's not going anywhere, and it's not going to bypass into the lower rad hose.
To go even farther, some t-stats come with an 1/8" bleed hole specifically to let it bypass a little and bled out any air bubbles... earlier in this thread Burn-your-money recommends drilling your own if your t-stat didn't already come with one.
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Wouldn't a 1/8" hole in the T-stat slow warn up time and make the engine run colder? Isn't there another way to bleed air?
Vince, How do you do the multiple quotes?
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Wouldn't a 1/8" hole in the T-stat slow warn up time and make the engine run colder? Isn't there another way to bleed air?
Not appreciably, given what full flow looks like. Cooling system air generally bleeds out on its own....some folks like a small hole to help it on its way.
Vince, How do you do the multiple quotes?
Cut 'n paste the quote codes that surround the original quote (can't demonstrate, since the software will think it's real code)
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I took out the old Wahler T stat,(87 C), tested it in hot water and it did not open after 3 min in boiling water. My new Wahler 92 C T-stat (in the same pot) opened before it boiled. The old stat differs from the new one in that it has a rubber seat on the part of the T stat that moves so its a rubber to metal seal. The new T-stat has no rubber seat so it's a metal to metal seal. I used a screw driver to push on the old T-stat all around and was able to make it move, un-sticking it (if it was stick), and put in boiling water again but it still would not open. My guess is that it probably does open at a higher temp than 212F? otherwise I would have overheated my engine?
Any theory as to why my T-stat stuck closed? How often does that happen? Could it be from depleted coolant and corrosion that follows? Which happens more often, a T-stat that's stuck closed or stuck open?
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Vince, How do you do the multiple quotes?
Hit the "Quote" button above one of Vince's replies where he has multiple quotes and you'll see the magic.
Like Vince said, you won't notice a difference in coolant temps or warm up time with a small hole drilled in your thermostat.
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Yep, first mark on the left. It climbs when setting at an idle up to the middle mark, then fans kick on but going down the highway or general driving it stays right around that first mark. The cooling fans have only kicked on 1 time since ive had it (2months). I was sitting in the driveway letting it idle to test the guage compared to when the fans kick on. I also wired up 2 little lights (1 comes on at low speed and both come on at high speed) into 1 of the blank buttons on the dash to see when the fans come so i know for sure.
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Your fans only come on once?!? might have a problem or something here.. lmao my fan comes on.. all through out the summer and even during cold days in the winter.. the rads pretty good at holding heat during winter temps up here in Canada..
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how often does everyone elses fans come on? ???
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and i know my thermostat is working, its goes from no reading and climbs to about a needles width past the first mark then it opens and drops back down.
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and i know my thermostat is working, its goes from no reading and climbs to about a needles width past the first mark then it opens and drops back down.
Are you certain that you even have a thermostat? Low temps at or below 1/2 gauge usually mean there's no T-stat.
As for the OP, the gauge is notoriously inaccurate. Also, if you read the manual for your car (the one that comes in the glovebox) it will state that temps up to about 3/4 to 7/8 are still within "Normal"
If after changing your T-Stat, the temps are still on the high side, but the fans still work as normal and there's no residual pressure in the overflow tank after a nightly cool down, then I'd say you're ok. At that point, you may try to replace the sender for the gauge, or the gauge itself.
Here's a link to my post when I was worried about the operating temps on a 1991 ECODiesel. I ended up selling the car 2 years ago, and the girl comes in for repairs every now and again. The car still runs great. Better than any diesel I own, and it's got close to 200K on it.
http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=9958.0
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(http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss184/EcoDiesel/Photo_061409_003.jpg)
This is where my 92 Ecodiesel temp gauge sits on the highway doing 65 mph. I calibrated the gauge (in boiling water with an ohmeter and thermeter) and at the position of the needle in the pic, the coolant temp is a little above 212 F. I measured 84 ohms in a pot of boiling water when I calibrated it. Iit measured 79 ohms in the car (lower is hotter).
I am curious where your coolant temp gauge sits in your Ecodiesel and if you can, measure the resistance of your sender. It's easy if you have a DVM, After getting the car up to steady temp, pull the connector on the sender (the one on top of the flange) and measure the sender resistance.
Turns out the thermostat was stuck closed! I put it in boiling water and it did not open at all. A new thermostat (195 F) was installed and the needle now sits 1/2 way between the middle and 3/4 mark. I also found a 2 prong connector near the battery (black connector with 2 red wires) and one of the wires was corroded to the point of not making a connection and was the cause of the fans not coming on automatically. I spliced that connection and the fans now come on automatically when the needle gets near the 3/4 mark and stops when it drops down to near the middle mark.
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I've been putting some miles on the Jetta since doing the timing belt and a new T-stat (195F). Now the needle sits midway between the 1/2 and 3/4 mark no matter how hard I drive it. Pic below is flooring it on the steepest hill on the Merritt pkwy in CT and the needle does not move any higher! Resistance of the coolant temp gauge sender is 94 ohms which is around 190 F, verified by a wireless contact thermometer (at the hose).
(http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss184/EcoDiesel/1246125930.jpg)
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That's where they tend to ride. The early Rabbit 1.6NA tend to sit right in the middle. The ECOs tend to sit just right of 1/2.