VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.
Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: maxfax on June 14, 2009, 11:46:57 pm
-
Since my engine is pretty much crap right now as the block is cracked and oil is going everywhere it shouldn't I've decided to start abusing it, moreso than usual.. My new engine should be done at the machine shop sometime this week...
Last week I did 50/50 WVO and waste motor oil.. I chose to use oil drained from customers cars that generally do pretty easy highway driving.. Basically it's about as clean as it's gonna get for WMO.. I dumped the WVO and the WMO in the filtration/dewatering setup and filtered it all together at the same time to 3 microns.. I've got rougly 900 miles on it so far.. This week I think I'm gonna bump up to 75% WMO (possibly with some trans fluid in there too)..
THe only thing noticably different was the exhaust smell.. Definitely doesn;t smell as nice as the burning WVO... I'll keep you all posted on what breaks.....
-
Yeah i've read quite a bit about burning WMO. Keep increasing bit by bit, do you think it will run on %100 WMO? (or maybe a 95/5.. WMO/ATF?) Motor Oil is supposed to have much higher BTU's then Diesel, as it is a heavier fuel.
Sounds like you got it made in the shade ;D Keep it up man, I am excited and anxious to hear how it goes.
-
some body reported on here that running large amounts of transmission fluid was wearing down his injector lines
-
I could see how prolonged ATF usage could cause issues.. The detergents probably take their toll on things over time.. I have to do some more reading, but apparently used ATF has some interesting properties of it's own.. I know there is alot of talk about just that over on CrownVic net when people bring up switiching from Dextron to Mercon V.. Apparently the residual used Dextron left in the trans doesn;t react so nicely with Mercon V.. I guess time will tell on that too as I filled my Vic with Mercon V at it's last trans service...
I have 75% WMO in the Bunny right now.. Still not noticing much difference versus the straight WVO.. Possibly a bit more smoke but I can;t verify that for sure till I have someone follow me... The butt dyno detected no difference..
I suspect the metal particals that the filters won;t catch will be the down fall of either the pump and/or the injectors... THe hardest thing is getting enough reasonably clean WMO.. Tractors are good for a few gallons, but it's also pretty nasty stuff.. It plugs the filters in the filtration machine PDQ.. The 100 mile a day commuter cars are the best source at the moment..
-
if you're running WMO then have it centrifuge filtered. a lot of crap will be removed and your injection pump/injectors will thank you (by giving you many km's of smooth sailing)
heating the fuel filter will also help during the cool nights/mornings as well, but not required if in a 50/50 mix. i bet you could get away with an 80/20 mix, but thats kinda risky.
-
I'd like to have a centrifuge filtration for the WVO at least, just hasn;t fit into the time and money budget yet.. I will have one before I start dumping crap to the new engine.. I'm not sure if the new engine will ever see WMO, just have to see how it goes on the crap engine first...
I should clarify that I'm mixing the WMO with WVO and not diesel.. I have a two tank rig and have been dumping it in the heated secondary fuel system.. Unfortunaly on this car it never sees alternate fuel in cold weather.. After 2 years of hair pulling the engine itself still won;t warm up enough to safely burn it.. I suspect its from the additional components in the cooling system for the WVO that aren;t controlled by the thermostat.. I have a valve to stop coomant flow to the second tank and heat exchangers and the engine temp will come up to normal.. OPen it up and it drops again... :-\
-
I have a Frybrid system - it takes longer in winter (4 miles or so) but eventually does get up to temp & switch over to VO. If you want more info on how that's plumbed let me know. Also check out the forum at www.frybrid.com/forum.
-
I could see how prolonged ATF usage could cause issues.. The detergents probably take their toll on things over time.. I have to do some more reading, but apparently used ATF has some interesting properties of it's own.. I know there is alot of talk about just that over on CrownVic net when people bring up switiching from Dextron to Mercon V.. Apparently the residual used Dextron left in the trans doesn;t react so nicely with Mercon V.. I guess time will tell on that too as I filled my Vic with Mercon V at it's last trans service...
My brother turns wrench at a dealership. He gets all the used ATF he can use. Currently, he runs it through a whole house water filter (3 micron) and burns it at about 50% with diesel / B15 - B05. What ever he feels like. He has a 3500 duely with the Cummins. He tried up to 100% ATF, but said the exhaust smelled to bad. He has a pre-2007 so no DPF. Even at 50%, he has cut his diesel price in half - $1.30 here in Michigan.
-
been running WMO in my rabbit pickup now for around 6000 miles. i run it through a remote oil filter with an powersteering pump being spun by an elecric motor. i have a two tank system and the oil is in the tank in the bed and i go to the filling station and fill the tank with one third diesel (off road, heh heh) and then flip a switch and the tank in the bed fills the main tank the rest of the way with motor oil via gravity through a fuel filter. It takes half an hour or so to filter through. It doesn't smoke, but it smells bad if you are behind me on the highway. I bought a GTD with a turbo and i think the added air will burn the oil more completely. the reason some vehicles won't work this way is that they have to be indirect injected like the older vw's, cummins, etc. btw. I tore down my old engine because one cyclinder finally gave up its rings and there was almost no compression. It was low on compression before the waste oil idea so that wasn't it. anyhoo, the engine looked good inside, and the injectors were clean too.
-
with some of these elaborate filtering schemes, why doesn't everyone just go centrifuge? it's not too difficult to get a simple one built. all you need is a router and some welding skills. think of all the extra money you can save by not buying filters? ;D
a pot will work. just need to drill the exact middle, and weld the bit that is able to lock into the router (mounted on a bench) and then get a rubber gasket for the lid, and cut an opening out. then all that needs to be done is build a plexiglass exterior to catch the oil. the area around the opening for the router's shaft has to be built up though so oil doesn't leak in there, and a drain tube to the clean oil tank. the oil can even be gravity fed!
-
with some of these elaborate filtering schemes, why doesn't everyone just go centrifuge? it's not too difficult to get a simple one built. all you need is a router and some welding skills. think of all the extra money you can save by not buying filters? ;D
a pot will work. just need to drill the exact middle, and weld the bit that is able to lock into the router (mounted on a bench) and then get a rubber gasket for the lid, and cut an opening out. then all that needs to be done is build a plexiglass exterior to catch the oil. the area around the opening for the router's shaft has to be built up though so oil doesn't leak in there, and a drain tube to the clean oil tank. the oil can even be gravity fed!
Got any photos ? :-)
-
Jon, you sound as though you may have stumbled on to a jackpot. Make some, Test them out, Distribute. REAP THE BENEFITS ;D
So Mr. BigTalk.. why haven't you made one yet? lol if its so "EASY" loooooool
-
Jon, you sound as though you may have stumbled on to a jackpot. Make some, Test them out, Distribute. REAP THE BENEFITS ;D
So Mr. BigTalk.. why haven't you made one yet? lol if its so "EASY" loooooool
a friend made one. its easier said than done, but considering some of the elaborate filtering setups people have... only way to reap benefits is to mass produce em.
i'll have to take a stroll around princess auto to see if they have everything needed (which they most likely do) and weigh the cost. demand won't be so good unless these things are dirt cheap. :( yet people don't mind spending $10 a filter that lasts maybe a week? while it takes maybe 5-10 minutes to scrape down the inside of the centrifuge, and it removes more crap!
btw when you put something in quotes like that, it makes it sound as if i said it was easy. i said it was not too difficult...
-
My elaborate filtering mechanism was a freebie.. It was some sort of machine used to recycle hydraulic oil.. All I had to do was put a heating element in the tank where you initially dump the oil in.. It stores 15 gallons of clean WVO and has a 20 foot hose that allows me to pump it into the car... Nice, compact, and on wheels! But the filters can get expensive..
I have a 275 gallon tank that I initially store the wvo in to allow crap to settle out.. Before I did this (aside from having 50 5 gallon jugs of WVO laying around) I had to change filters all the damn time.. Now I can get away with spending about $120 a year in filters... I wish I woudl have put a big dump valve on that first holding tank though.. Someday it will need cleaned...
AS far as a centrifuge, I been kinda holding out till someone gets tired of dealing with grease and dumps one cheap.. ;D It doesn;t appear that hard to build one, but alot of things tend to look easy, and with this crappy economy business has been friggen booming, so time is short....
Jettage1, I loosley copied the frybrid setup on both my cars.. Here's what is odd, my first one worked absolutely fine year round, just a little more warm up time needed in the winter... My current car hs EXACTLY the same setup.. Same brand valves, heat exchangers, everything. It's just cold blooded.. I've even noticed without the extra plumbing that it always took longer for the engine to warm up.. ???
-
if you have good welding skills, i'd imagine that a simple centrifuge shouldn't cost more than $50. another friend of mine has made one out of wood, and pieces lying around. albeit not as efficient as a manufactured one, it still does the job.
-
I would think it'd be super thick. Does WMO thin out at temperature like WVO? I read things about people putting gasoline in to thin it, but that's a baaaaaad idea.
are there any long term affects like gunk? I'm definitely interested in getting somre more info.
-
I would think it'd be super thick. Does WMO thin out at temperature like WVO? I read things about people putting gasoline in to thin it, but that's a baaaaaad idea.
are there any long term affects like gunk? I'm definitely interested in getting somre more info.
all oils will thin out at the right temperature. andy2 helped me install a pump with some 10w30 oil in it, and it started up cold no problem. engine oil has the effect of lubricating the injection pump properly, so you won't damage the internals. however it might not properly atomize, so there could be some potential gunk buildup.
-
You can also modify a juicer. ;)
http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/159605551/m/1681017591/p/1
Going to be building one of these once my listeroid generator is up and running. Gonna be burning veggie most of its life. :)
-
A juicer huh.. Now that's a darned fine idea...
jtanguay, get us some pics of these contraptions!!!!
-
Let me just butt in for a second and say that I am still running with 10% filtered realitively fresh (only 10 hours in the machine) Cateprillar 10 wt. hydraulic fluid. It has been about 4,000 miles and all is still good. There for awhile, I was doing more like 14% and started getting more smoke which (of course) was more annoying at above 5,000 feet elevation.
When I changed oil (this engine only has like 6,000 on total rebuild) there seemed to be more soot in the oil as it exited the pan. So, I poured about a half gallon of diesel through the engine and let it drain. The soot continued to exit the pan....but, you can do this to an all diesel engine and continue to get some soot.
My seat-of-pants assessment: more soot, more power, no observed temperature increases, more quiet, still cold starts just fine, and people either pass or back off.
-
So far about 4000 miles on a 50/50 mix of WVO and WMO.. So far so good.. Took it to Pittsburgh to see Mr. Buffett. Gave it a good servicing before we left.... Oil seemd to be no nastiaer than normal.. Not too bad since I can;t remeber the last time I changed it.. (Remember, the engine is junk, I just don;t care anymore) Changed the air filter and both the diesel and WVO fuel filters too..
Decided to up the ante for this trip so I did about 75% WMO and 25%WVO (I would done 100% but I didn;t have enough decent WMO).. Filled the diesel tank too, just in case... Ran like a champ.. Maintained 70 - 75 MPH on the turnpike.. Except over the mountains near Bedford.. I dropped to 65 mph a time or two.. Not bad for 2 larger people with luggage, a grill, gas powered blender, and a cooler of booze... A rough figure on milage I got about 43 MPG...
The only problem I encountered was when I was switiching back to diesel on the way home.. Darn thing started running like crap... Screwed another filter on the diesel side and it was good to go... Go figure ::)
-
You can also modify a juicer. ;)
http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/159605551/m/1681017591/p/1
Going to be building one of these once my listeroid generator is up and running. Gonna be burning veggie most of its life. :)
thats how my friend made his centrifuge!!! i gave him my old broken jack lalanne juicer (plastic piece broke ::)) but the only thing he used was the base. it comes with a 350 watt powerful motor (i think the motor has a lifetime warranty???). it works very well! one could theoretically get an inverter and filter on site, but it doesn't filter too quickly. a larger unit would be better suited. i really like the idea of self containing the whole system though. using veg oil fuel to filter the veg oil :)
one thing you'll notice from centrifuge filtering, is that you don't need to change filters as often. the link above has the right idea, but there are some considerations as adding a spill over top to make sure crap doesn't spill into the clean oil catcher, etc. the oil gets flinged pretty good and can even spray out from the pressure so it has to be sealed well. heating the oil makes a huge difference as well.
-
I use 50% WMO with 50% WVO when I have WMO to burn. I centrifuge it all. I've run 100% WMO before, it's got some blue smoke obviously. It feels about the same power as diesel. WVO doesn't have as much energy as petrodiesel but WMO seems to, which is good.
Food for thought: ATF has used sealer in much of it (used by people to seal leaks) that makes tar babies. I'm afraid of that *** (but I still burn it anways ;D)
-
Theoretically WMO should have more power than Diesel, as Oil has a much higher BTU then Diesel does. (because it has passed through less steps of refinement then Motor Oil.) Maybe the reason you are seeing less power is because of the added crap? Or does centrifuging the oil make it cleaner then new oil???
I know with the ford diesels.. a common failure of the CDR valve will essentially make the engine drink its crank case contents.. and then that oil drains to cylinders 7 and 8 (due to intake mani design) and causes those cylinders to run much hotter and destroy valves and HG's quite quickly. Lol.
-
Theoretically WMO should have more power than Diesel, as Oil has a much higher BTU then Diesel does. (because it has passed through less steps of refinement then Motor Oil.) Maybe the reason you are seeing less power is because of the added crap? Or does centrifuging the oil make it cleaner then new oil???
I know with the ford diesels.. a common failure of the CDR valve will essentially make the engine drink its crank case contents.. and then that oil drains to cylinders 7 and 8 (due to intake mani design) and causes those cylinders to run much hotter and destroy valves and HG's quite quickly. Lol.
if you can't properly atomize the oil, then it won't burn properly. thats why higher breaking pressures are a good idea when converting to veg. static and dynamic timing is affected as well, further changing the characteristics of how the engine runs. and yea the motor oil will have more BTU's due to having heavier petroleum oil distillate, but i wonder just how much? must depend on brand of oil, weight, etc...