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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: superbro on June 04, 2009, 12:30:54 pm

Title: Is Turboing a n/a a bad thing?
Post by: superbro on June 04, 2009, 12:30:54 pm
I have a 83 1.5. I have some guys telling me to put a turbo on it. But some of my good vw buddy's have all way told me that it would do more harm then good. What do you guys think?
Title: Re: Is Turboing a n/a a bad thing?
Post by: rabbitman on June 04, 2009, 02:57:51 pm
I don't think the 1.5 ever came in 83, mustu been swapped.

I'm no expert but 1.5's need head studs if your gonna turbo it, even without a turbo it's not a bad idea.
The stock bolts don't go into the block far enough to hold good, studs are longer and grab lots more threads.
With studs and a turbo it'll rip 8).
Title: Re: Is Turboing a n/a a bad thing?
Post by: 8v-of-fury on June 04, 2009, 03:25:17 pm
Yes the 1.5 was only available in cars built in 1978, 1979, and 1980. No 1983 lol. If you are completely sure it is the original engine and is not turbo'd then it is the 1.6, and in which case is much easier to turbo.

If you do in fact have the 1.6, it will merely be a matter of fitting the turbo manifolds, making a fitting in the oil pan for oil drain, a turbo IP.. however the stock one will work for small boost (like an ECO), and someway to control boost?? i think that is the basics.. more or less..

If it is the 1.5... I don't think i would spend to much time or money on modifying it.. as you can readily find a 1.6 TD and not have to do anything to it but turn up the fuel and boost  ;)
Title: Re: Is Turboing a n/a a bad thing?
Post by: zukgod1 on June 04, 2009, 04:24:14 pm
Throw in some head studs and boost away!!!!
Title: Re: Is Turboing a n/a a bad thing?
Post by: rabbitman on June 04, 2009, 04:49:03 pm
If you look on the front of the block below cylinder no. 3 there will be a two letter code, like cy, jk, ck and such. Post it and someone here will know what engine you got.
Title: Re: Is Turboing a n/a a bad thing?
Post by: RabbitJockey on June 04, 2009, 05:05:09 pm
non turbo and turbo pumps both can deliver the same amount of fueling.
Title: Re: Is Turboing a n/a a bad thing?
Post by: 8v-of-fury on June 04, 2009, 05:39:14 pm
non turbo and turbo pumps both can deliver the same amount of fueling.

thus a true statement! Yet non turbo pumps cannot deliver fueling relative to boost.. which is Ideal for turbo engines :) Yes you can run a turbo with out a turbo pump, but then you will have an ECO-Diesel as I stated before. You will be fine with a N/a pump, but you won't get maximum efficiency and power. Unless of course your just looking for economy and longevity?
Title: Re: Is Turboing a n/a a bad thing?
Post by: 8v-of-fury on June 04, 2009, 07:28:27 pm
Andrew unleashed the AWESOME.

it's a 1.5.. experiment with it! The only real way you will EVER know its capabilities, and you can have some wicked fun blowing an engine up.
Title: Re: Is Turboing a n/a a bad thing?
Post by: VWSmokr on June 04, 2009, 07:35:58 pm
Quoting 8v-of-fury: "...You will be fine with a N/a pump, but you won't get maximum efficiency and power. Unless of course your just looking for economy and longevity?"

IMO there's no problem with added economy & longevity! My wanna-be d/d, driven 'reasonably', gets about 43mpg city/55mpg highway now. How much more fuel mileage could one reasonably expect from a VW 1.6 NA converted to turbo, while still using the NA pump?

Will the turbo system, again... with the NA pump, likely do anything for the 1000-2500rpm part of the torque curve? (Engine turns about 2350rpm @ 65mph in 5th gear, and currently has 2.25" exhaust to the rear except for its free-flowing 2.5" x 24" glasspack muffler.)

What, if anything, would an intercooler do to help a turbo-conversion that's still using the NA pump?

Lotsa questions; I'd prefer to get another 50-60K more reliable/economical miles from the current engine, while completing my collection of parts for a completely new 1.6TD, as well as buttoning up some other projects. (Not interested in blowing this up... this engine will probably live on to power an emergency generator on WVO, once the new TD is ready to install in the car.)

All answers, suggestions & SWAGs appreciated. TIA

J.R.
SoCal
Title: Re: Is Turboing a n/a a bad thing?
Post by: 8v-of-fury on June 04, 2009, 07:42:00 pm
What, if anything, would an intercooler do to help a turbo-conversion that's still using the NA pump?

Colder air is ALWAYS your friend. Whenever you compress something an energy is given off. The energy in this case is heat, anyway oyu can remove the heat from the equation, or reduce it, (intercooler) is a significant gain anyway you cut it. YOU may not notice the gains from adding an IC to an ECO (essentially it is what you have), but your engine will and it will thank you for it. By giving you another 50-60k :) adding an IC to an ECO is another economy thing.. you obviously aren't in it for POWER! so you must be in it for ECONOMY! taking the reliable N/a, cramming cold air in to it (turbo and IC) you are by far increasing the engines longevity. It will have to work that much less that over a time period it will cause less wear, and thus give you a longer time in service :P

Goodluck with that!
Title: Re: Is Turboing a n/a a bad thing?
Post by: hamradio on June 04, 2009, 09:03:07 pm
LOL, turboing a NA is def. not a bad thing.


I'm trying to kill my 11mm 1.6 with 15psi and my vnt15.  I can't.
Title: Re: Is Turboing a n/a a bad thing?
Post by: Golf/Jetta on June 05, 2009, 04:09:48 am
don't slap on a turbo IP, you'll end up melting the valves and pistons.
but one could use it for a quick getaway (very sparingly) a switch or noob on the dash.
Title: Re: Is Turboing a n/a a bad thing?
Post by: arb on June 05, 2009, 05:46:09 am
I turbo'd my NA 1.6 and have it set up for an IC. Getting 10 psi booth max, and the economy is great. I have the stock NA IP. One advantage with this Eco-diesel is I don't get any smoke - all my fuel is burned rather than drawing attention from local law enforcement. (Dodge never sold a diesel version of the Caravan this side of the Pond)  So, TURBO it !!!  IC it, keep your NA IP. You'll see maybe 70 hp. :-)
Title: Re: Is Turboing a n/a a bad thing?
Post by: hamradio on June 05, 2009, 08:16:03 am
don't slap on a turbo IP, you'll end up melting the valves and pistons.
but one could use it for a quick getaway (very sparingly) a switch or noob on the dash.

Umm, why?


I could actually get higher egt's with my old NA pump than I can with my turbo pump.  I'm still not seeing past 700* F or so.
Title: Re: Is Turboing a n/a a bad thing?
Post by: 8v-of-fury on June 05, 2009, 02:56:25 pm
don't slap on a turbo IP, you'll end up melting the valves and pistons.
but one could use it for a quick getaway (very sparingly) a switch or noob on the dash.

Uhmmm... Care to explain this? They can deliver the same amount of fuel to an engine. I am kinda half sure you would melt pistons with a turned up N/A pump, as opposed to a turned up TD pump, quicker. To get power from an N/A pump you will have to have the fuel screw cranked up to have fueling for when the turbo fully spools, and doing so will give you WAY TO MUCH fuel for when the turbo is not fully spooled. Effectively melting your pistons and throwing a few rods through the block  ;) However! throw a TD pump on there, and with use of the LDA you will be able to govern how much fuel is entering the engine relative to how much boost the turbo is making (how fast it is spooling). Thus you will never have to much fuel, and you won't melt your pistons  :) Assuming you don't crank the fuel screw up.

Best plan of action.. find a TD pump, find a turbo. run them BOTH at stock settings and add an IC. your car will love you. You've added more fuel, you've added more air, and you've made that air colder. A diesel engine would love nothing more than that.  ;D
Title: Re: Is Turboing a n/a a bad thing?
Post by: Rabbit TD on June 05, 2009, 03:19:15 pm
don't slap on a turbo IP, you'll end up melting the valves and pistons.
but one could use it for a quick getaway (very sparingly) a switch or noob on the dash.

Uhmmm... Care to explain this? They can deliver the same amount of fuel to an engine. I am kinda half sure you would melt pistons with a turned up N/A pump, as opposed to a turned up TD pump, quicker. To get power from an N/A pump you will have to have the fuel screw cranked up to have fueling for when the turbo fully spools, and doing so will give you WAY TO MUCH fuel for when the turbo is not fully spooled. Effectively melting your pistons and throwing a few rods through the block  ;) However! throw a TD pump on there, and with use of the LDA you will be able to govern how much fuel is entering the engine relative to how much boost the turbo is making (how fast it is spooling). Thus you will never have to much fuel, and you won't melt your pistons  :) Assuming you don't crank the fuel screw up.

Best plan of action.. find a TD pump, find a turbo. run them BOTH at stock settings and add an IC. your car will love you. You've added more fuel, you've added more air, and you've made that air colder. A diesel engine would love nothing more than that.  ;D

That all sounds right to me now I have to get my T/D pump back on and see what this old stock t3 actualy does with what it's designed to work with.
Title: Re: Is Turboing a n/a a bad thing?
Post by: Rabbit TD on June 05, 2009, 04:05:47 pm
don't slap on a turbo IP, you'll end up melting the valves and pistons.
but one could use it for a quick getaway (very sparingly) a switch or noob on the dash.

Umm, why?


I could actually get higher egt's with my old NA pump than I can with my turbo pump.  I'm still not seeing past 700* F or so.

Just out of curiosity where do you have the probe for the EGT gauge at?
Title: Re: Is Turboing a n/a a bad thing?
Post by: hamradio on June 05, 2009, 06:11:51 pm
Pre-turbine.  It's an aircraft spruce probe.


I could hit egt's of 1300 when it was NA on an NA pump.
Title: Re: Is Turboing a n/a a bad thing?
Post by: rabbitman on June 07, 2009, 01:20:50 am
The main thing to watch is egt's, keep it cooler than you would with a real turbo motor.
Title: Re: Is Turboing a n/a a bad thing?
Post by: Zulfiqar on June 08, 2009, 01:48:07 am
Not to hijack or anything or is it me or was there an mk2 NA rear engine mount that would not accept the turbo oil return its basically cast flat - Ive seen 2 other NA engines with the mount that has dents in the casting for the turbo oil return, Im afraid to grind it as it may crack the entire aluminium when the engine vibrates..

Not many VWs around here
Title: Re: Is Turboing a n/a a bad thing?
Post by: MattRabbit on June 08, 2009, 03:55:10 pm
Quote from: 8v-of-fury
Best plan of action.. find a TD pump, find a turbo. run them BOTH at stock settings and add an IC. your car will love you. You've added more fuel, you've added more air, and you've made that air colder. A diesel engine would love nothing more than that.  ;D

Therein lies the hard part.  Finding any turbo stuff is just about impossible around here.  :(
Title: Re: Is Turboing a n/a a bad thing?
Post by: 8v-of-fury on June 08, 2009, 03:59:29 pm
Quote from: 8v-of-fury
Best plan of action.. find a TD pump, find a turbo. run them BOTH at stock settings and add an IC. your car will love you. You've added more fuel, you've added more air, and you've made that air colder. A diesel engine would love nothing more than that.  ;D

Therein lies the hard part.  Finding any turbo stuff is just about impossible around here.  :(

Looks like your stuck with an N/a :P
Title: Re: Is Turboing a n/a a bad thing?
Post by: superbro on June 08, 2009, 08:18:55 pm
thanks guys i know it not a 83 engine its a 80. so thanks a lot. 
Title: Re: Is Turboing a n/a a bad thing?
Post by: bevboyy on June 09, 2009, 07:30:39 pm
been there, done that.

Yes it can be done.

1) Invest in an IC
2) Invest in an external oil cooler
3) Invest in a good set of head bolts
4) Invest in a egt thermocoupler and gauge.
5) Invest in a boost controller.

Points to ponder:
-----------------

You can use the stock ip - increase fueling to compensate - you will see more smoke off line, but you will make more power.

Make sure your EGT's don't go over 1200 degrees at any given time.

10psi of boost is a safe about to run.

Have fun.. 8)



Title: Re: Is Turboing a n/a a bad thing?
Post by: VWSmokr on June 09, 2009, 10:18:09 pm
Great input. Thanks to all; now I'm inspired to do this!

J.R.
SoCal