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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: rallydiesel on April 21, 2009, 08:40:08 pm
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I've seen these going for pretty cheap on ebay. It's a Holset VNT He351Ve turbo. Came stock on a Cummins 6.7 engine. Interesting thing is the vnt range is equivalent to 3cm^2 all the way to 25cm^2 exhaust housing. With that much range you'd think it could be made to work for an engine our size.
Currently can be found on ebay item 180348738968.
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I'd be wary of those things selling so cheap... I have to wonder why they were removed.. Not really much out there as an upgrade for these yet..
The 6.7 has has alot of turbo problems, soot related from their half a$$ed attempt at meeting emissions standards... Best case scenario they can be cleaned and the vanes un stuck, but Cummins has had to eat just quite a few of these too...
The next thing could be cramming that sucker under the hood :shock:
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Cummins Holset Vs. K26.
Ya, bit different...
(http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/546375.jpg)
(http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/546376.jpg)
Stole the photo's from a mercedes diesel forum.
There are a few VNT builds there but no new or better control ideas.
The vane control on these turbos is way different from the garrett turbo's, maybe way better from a sticking due to carbon buildup point of view.
maxfax, looks a wee bit sooty, huh.
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lol
looks spoolable!!!!
reason these units are so cheap is cummins guys dont like or really care for VNT turbos....traditional turbos seem to work lots better for the high performance cummins.
k26 on our car=LAG
VNT cummins turbo on our car=might as well be a NA.
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lol, now that I see them side-by-side... :oops:
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lol, now that I see them side-by-side... :oops:
:lol: That's kinda what I was thinking.. The ebay pic isn;t too good at showing the size of those things...
I thought in stock form the VNT worked well on the 6.7.. THe problem is the darned EGR.. I've had a few of those engines that were soo soooty it gunked up the intake air heater to the point cold starting was compromised...
I guess after about 20 different ecm flashes they have gotten better.. 2 bucks wioth of steel plate cut in the shape of the EGR gaskests seems to be the best solution though...
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I like the cummins 3cyl warm up idle.
As for the Holset, ya toooo big. Sprinter GT22's are becoming pretty plentiful tho. We just need someone to figure out the best adapter plate...
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Has anyone got any specs on the 6.7 these come off? I.e what rpm is max torque, what pressure it runs, even a dyno of a stock one? Can't seem to find anything on google that isn't about a modified one
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Has anyone got any specs on the 6.7 these come off? I.e what rpm is max torque, what pressure it runs, even a dyno of a stock one? Can't seem to find anything on google that isn't about a modified one
http://www.everytime.cummins.com/every/applications/dodge_ram/ram67.page
stock dyno
http://www.everytime.cummins.com/sites/every/applications/dodge_ram/ram67.page?section=ratings
VNT or not a 6.7 cummins turbo is a waste on a small 4cyl like what we have....maybe as a dyno queen??? you would probably still have to lite the dang thing off with NX to get moving....... :lol:
my.02
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Even being a VGT, that 351VE would probably spool around 4000rpm and surge like no other on a VW.
Those pictures are mine. I got rid of that turbo because I decided it was much too large even for my 3.0L MB diesel. Most of the units on ebay were removed due to soot caking in the exhaust restricting vane movement. There is nothing wrong with them and most are nearly brand new! A quick tear down and soot removal is all they need to get back into new condition.
They soot up quick because the 6.7 cummins retards the injection timing to make the exhaust really hot and burn off DPF soot. Making the engine run hot and dirty to make it clean, kind of an oxymoron isn't it? ::)
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Yeah but the government stardards are there to help clean the air. Cause when an engine consumes more fuel while trying to produce cleaner air its better right?
I followed a cummins on the highway i smelled raw fuel got concerned looked at my gauges then smelled a chlorine almost pool water smell. I realized the cummins was burning off the dpf. Such a dumb theory.
Tell me how useing more fuel is better. The emissions can't be better when its dumping raw fuel into the exhaust stream.
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it might be dirty on the inlet of the DPF filters....but it's cleaner out the tail pipe and that's all they care about ;)
chlorine smell is the catalytic converters/filters nothing to do with the regen that the 6.7 cummins does....my jeep grand Cherokee has the Mercedes 3.0 v6 CR diesel and it's cleaner then their gas engines..and has the same swimming pool smell..(no regen though so it's gotta be the filters)
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I always got a kick out of the air pumps fitted to later carbed engines that blew air into the exhaust. Their biggest effect on emissions was simply dilution at the expense of robbing horsepower and lowering overall engine efficiency. LOL!
yea i wonder who came up with that bright idea... 'well rather than reduce emissions the right way, lets do it the sneaky way'. i bet the EPA loved that!!! :o ;D
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my jeep grand Cherokee has the Mercedes 3.0 v6 CR diesel
Your Jeep is a Bluetec, it has a DPF.
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i think one of those could be made to work, was it mjf and turbo j were talking about a guy that did 270hp with an hx35 which is a larger turbo with a split turbine. it's a similar sized compressor though. you'd just need an engine that can breath to really make it run, and it obviously wouldn't spool very quickly down low, and when it would surge it already has built in surge protection. but they posted the dyno of the guy with 270hp, and he started making a big leap in power around 3500rpm(where he already had 125hp), i would think the he351 vnt would spool quicker being that it's a vnt. it's definitely something worth experimenting with imo. dave used very large turbo on his 195hp build i think it was a t3/to4e 60 trim maybe? i forget the specs and he never posted them all together you gotta skim the whole thread to get them. obviously this isn't the turbo for someone trying to make 150hp on their dd but i think on a 1.6/1.9 or aaz built for big numbers it would be a good choice. but i don't really know that much about turbo sizing, it seems not to apply well to diesel engines tho.
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An HE351 is much closer to an HX40 than a 35.
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it might be dirty on the inlet of the DPF filters....but it's cleaner out the tail pipe and that's all they care about ;)
chlorine smell is the catalytic converters/filters nothing to do with the regen that the 6.7 cummins does....my jeep grand Cherokee has the Mercedes 3.0 v6 CR diesel and it's cleaner then their gas engines..and has the same swimming pool smell..(no regen though so it's gotta be the filters)
I know why they are doing it and i think it is absolutley retarded. The chlorine smell is from the regen and catalyst combined to "make the air cleaner". But if your wasting more fuel how is it beneficial? I just don't agree with their methods. It sucks cause the engine manufactures are forced to do this to meet the strict emissions.
Sorry to hi jack.
I agree I think its worth a shot to try the holset VNT.
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my jeep grand Cherokee has the Mercedes 3.0 v6 CR diesel
Your Jeep is a Bluetec, it has a DPF.
yeah I know it has a DPF (diesel particulate filter)....but it does not run a regen mode like the cummins.
it might be dirty on the inlet of the DPF filters....but it's cleaner out the tail pipe and that's all they care about ;)
chlorine smell is the catalytic converters/filters nothing to do with the regen that the 6.7 cummins does....my jeep grand Cherokee has the Mercedes 3.0 v6 CR diesel and it's cleaner then their gas engines..and has the same swimming pool smell..(no regen though so it's gotta be the filters)
I know why they are doing it and i think it is absolutley retarded. The chlorine smell is from the regen and catalyst combined to "make the air cleaner". But if your wasting more fuel how is it beneficial? I just don't agree with their methods. It sucks cause the engine manufactures are forced to do this to meet the strict emissions.
Sorry to hi jack.
I agree I think its worth a shot to try the holset VNT.
my jeep does NOT do regen...thats what i'm saying the filter smell like chlorine.. not the regen mode....
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Don't jeeps have Blutec which injects urea?
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Don't jeeps have Blutec which injects urea?
That I don't know?
Where does the urea come from?
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my jeep is not a blutec.....no jeeps have bluetec yet...MB saved that for their cars and SUV's only. 2009-2010 jeeps are supposed to have the urea injection and will be classifed as "bluetec"
even the blue tec does not have the same regen that the cummins has.....
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An HE351 is much closer to an HX40 than a 35.
so was i thinking of the earlier non vnt turbo they had in the early 2000s?
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Maybe your thinking of the hy35?
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yeah it's like an hy35 and almost the same but they call it something different, and i thought there was just a vnt version of it
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That cummins VGT turbo is from the 6.7 L engine.Dave's T3/t4 had a 54 mm inducer and was very similar to the hy35 used on the 5.9 L.
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The HY35 is from 01-02 autos and the HX35 is from manuals and early auto 24v.
HY35 has a 9cm
HX35 has a 12cm
Check this out http://dodgeram.org/tech/dsl/FAQ/turbo_faq.htm
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yeah I know it has a DPF (diesel particulate filter)....but it does not run a regen mode like the cummins.
All DPF vehicles regenerate. Mercedes (and in turn, Jeep) makes it as unobtrusive as possible. Dodge (Cummins) displays it because they know their customers need/want to know that kind of information for towing and maintenance.
my jeep does NOT do regen...thats what i'm saying the filter smell like chlorine.. not the regen mode....
It does regen, you are just made unaware of it happening.
Don't jeeps have Blutec which injects urea?
No. Urea injection is AdBlue, seperate from Bluetec.
my jeep is not a blutec.....no jeeps have bluetec yet.
All MB powered Jeeps were bluetec from day one.
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The HY35 is from 01-02 autos and the HX35 is from manuals and early auto 24v.
HY35 has a 9cm
HX35 has a 12cm
Check this out http://dodgeram.org/tech/dsl/FAQ/turbo_faq.htm
they both have the same compressor though, the exhaust side is a split scroll or w/e on the hx35, and all other hx turbos. there is an he351 that is not a vgt i was right but it has a much larger compressor wheel and better housings, i just stole that from this site (http://www.turbododge.com/forums/f4/f19/127389-holset-he351-hy35-56k-beware.html) but i knew i had read it before
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k26 on our car=LAG
VNT cummins turbo on our car=might as well be a NA.
You just need a turbo or two to spool it :P then it wont be NA at 80psi!
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Sorry to bump this old thread but after running the he221w on the 1.6 I think this turbo would be an option. Also, I think that this one would be almost perfect. Good luck finding one though.
Holset HE341Ve
Compressor
Exducer: 76.5mm
Inducer: 53mm
14 blades
48 trim
Turbine
Inducer: 69mm
Exducer: 59.4mm
11 blades
Total weight 39lbs
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fwiw i think it's not that VNTs don't perform well on the big cummins, it's that the vanes get stuck, and THEN they don't perform well
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I don't know if anyone is considering doing this, but be trust me, it needs to be compounded with a smaller turbo to even have a chance being fairly drivable. It might work well if drag racing is the cars' only purpose. You can close the vanes so far that it lowers the volumetric efficiency enough that it won't rev, but it's still miserably slow to spool.
(http://i.imgur.com/zteqR9pl.jpg)
Newb account won't let me link to the full size picture :-/ Probably for a good reason.
http://i (dot) imgur.com/zteqR9p.jpg
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I don't know if anyone is considering doing this, but be trust me, it needs to be compounded with a smaller turbo to even have a chance being fairly drivable. It might work well if drag racing is the cars' only purpose. You can close the vanes so far that it lowers the volumetric efficiency enough that it won't rev, but it's still miserably slow to spool.
(http://i.imgur.com/zteqR9pl.jpg)
Newb account won't let me link to the full size picture :-/ Probably for a good reason.
http://i (dot) imgur.com/zteqR9p.jpg
what car and engine is this?
and yes, this turbo is absolutely too big except for in a compound setup
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what car and engine is this?
The car is an AMC, and the engine is, well... a 1.6d ME TDI?
Are they considered direct injected after you gut the throttles in the head, ...
(http://i.imgur.com/ak0Husul.jpg)
and adapt new injectors into them?
(http://i.imgur.com/v2Oj3N6l.jpg)
I don't really wanna hijack this guy's thread even though it's ancient, but I have an idea of how to spool it without compounding it. It just take time. Well time to make money, a fair sum of money. :-(
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what car and engine is this?
The car is an AMC, and the engine is, well... a 1.6d ME TDI?
Are they considered direct injected after you gut the throttles in the head, ...
(http://i.imgur.com/ak0Husul.jpg)
and adapt new injectors into them?
(http://i.imgur.com/v2Oj3N6l.jpg)
I don't really wanna hijack this guy's thread even though it's ancient, but I have an idea of how to spool it without compounding it. It just take time. Well time to make money, a fair sum of money. :-(
please make a thread detailing your build, that car is very very interesting
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I agree. I want to see more.