VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.
Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: 53 willys on April 16, 2009, 12:20:47 am
-
hey guys I'm mocking up this t3 for my 1.6td...I'm putting a BB turbo on turbonetics told me it was REAL important to make sure the drain is above the oil level in the pan...
so my question...
is the stock turbo oil drain on a 1.6td..drain above or below the oil level?? it leans back so much I'm almost sure it does when the engine is off? but what about while running?
should I move my drain to the block?
wheres the best place to drill and tap?
I tried to search it because I thought I read something a while back ago? but I cant seem to find it.
thanks..
you would think VW would not drain below oil level right???
:?
-
If its not totally below the oil level, its darn close to it. I have my '79 up on jack stands with head off right now, and there is oil in the tube.
I've seen other sources that say make sure the oil drain is above the oil level in the pan, and the set up on the early TDs has always bugged me. If you come up with an elegant solution, post pics.
I was also thinking that the girdle that truckwagon was selling would be a possible solution if you move the drain to the girdle, and run the same oil quantity as you do with out the girdle.
-
The TDI's have an M18 hole about 2" above the sump mounting in the block, Fit a TDI Sump and do that?
Ry
-
wow I thought somebody on here would have tried or seen some info on this by now???
I guess it's time for more exploratory drilling! :shock:
-
Having the oil drain above the oil level has to do with the condition of the oil coming out of the turbo. This comes from books like "Turbochargers" by Hugh McInnes:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51C00M3SD6L._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA240_SH20_OU01_.jpg)
Apparently, early turbos like Roto Master and Rayjay passed allot more oil through their bearing housings. The oil draining out was highly aerated, to the point that it looked like milk shake. The oil in this condition did not drain well. If the outlet for the drain was below the oil level in the pan, oil would back into the turbo and leak through the seals.
You raise an interesting point though. The turbos we have now do not use allot of oil, but is the drain purposely placed below the oil level to create a trap so blow by pressure won't make its way back up the drain tube and blow oil past the seals?
-
Bump because I'm wondering too :P
-
Original turbos have been known to last 70-80 thousand miles on 1.6 TD engines, so whether or not the drain goes above or below the sump oil level, must mean precious little in practice, right?
At least with the turbos they used.
Then again, the 1.9 TD did feature an updated oil return - to the block rather than the sump, and they've never gone back again...
Now someone please go and remove the oil return connector from the sump of a 1.6 TD VW and see if oil comes out of the sump. Next time you do an oil change, anyone?
-
Original turbos have been known to last 70-80 thousand miles on 1.6 TD engines
I have had original turbos go over 350,000 miles on a 1.6, and they do enter the pan below the oil level.
-
Original turbos have been known to last 70-80 thousand miles on 1.6 TD engines, so whether or not the drain goes above or below the sump oil level, must mean precious little in practice, right?
At least with the turbos they used.
Then again, the 1.9 TD did feature an updated oil return - to the block rather than the sump, and they've never gone back again...
Now someone please go and remove the oil return connector from the sump of a 1.6 TD VW and see if oil comes out of the sump. Next time you do an oil change, anyone?
I've done it. It does. Even with the car level on jack stands. With just the front end up, it pours out of the pan fitting.
-
the real question is does it enter below oil level when running???(engine running)
-
Original turbos have been known to last 70-80 thousand miles on 1.6 TD engines
I have had original turbos go over 350,000 miles on a 1.6, and they do enter the pan below the oil level.
Whoops.. I don't know how I wrote that, obviously I have seen 500.000 km on an original turbo. I was very tired when I wrote that, I actually used 6 intead of 1.6 as a multiplier when coverting km to miles :D
-
I dont think it's above the oil line when running Mark.
Maybe at high RPM's but not at anything under 2000.
Also, if you are planning on running that bottom end Girdle your going to have to either run more oil (raising the oil line) or build a lower oil PU tube.
How thick is that Girdle?
If it was say 1/2" think you could maybe machine a channel through it and return the oil there?
-
The dipstick will of course read correctly in relation to the oil pump feed pipe. I have a block girdle and a bit more oil volume that comes with it is just better if you ask me. The extra room between the sump bottom and the oil feed pipe could actually help keep the inevitable particles out of the oil pickup filter (which can clog sometimes).
I like the idea about oil return on the girdle itself, but they're usually not very thick (mine's 1 cm AFAIK, less than half an inch).
I wouldn't trust a return connector with less diameter than the stock ones.
Oil residue that builds over time on the return line could block the flow pretty quickly if the diameter is too small.
-
well guys I have the pan off and the exhaust and intake manifolds off right now....I found a nice spot on the block that's gonna get tapped....I will post pics of the damage... 8)
BTW oil drain would not work going through my girdle....you need to have at least a 1/2" drain pipe for the turbo to drain properly..
-
How'd it go?
-
How'd it go?
well I got a couple spots in mind...but I did not tap it yet since I'm wanting to build my exhaust manifold first so I can put the drain in the best spot possible.
hopefully I can post pics next week....long as I get my parts I should be able to.
-
BTW oil drain would not work going through my girdle....you need to have at least a 1/2" drain pipe for the turbo to drain properly..
Ya I figured you would need to machine a long hole in it not just drill through it.
-
The Callaway turbo kit that I have uses a Roto-Master turbo. Callaway is VERY specific about where to drill the hole into the block. Go 6" from the tranny side of the engine and then 2 3/4" up from the bottom edge of the block. Drill a 11/16" (hole saw) to tap a 1/2" NPT. then use a 45 degree with a hose barb style to attach the drain hose to. Be aware that when drilling the hole that the angle of the hole is slightly "uphill" so that the oil flowing down the tube has no chance of stopping at the 45 and will drain smoothly into the oil pan.
When tapping the hole, you need just enough threads cut to be flush on the inside of the block (when the adapter is screwed in like you want it) cause the connecting rod is REALLY close. Rotate engine and watch to see there's no contact. Then use the super killer Loctite!
Anyway, thats what Callaway says to do. Hope this helps.
Cheers,
-JB
-
So does your block drain work good?
-
Original turbos have been known to last 70-80 thousand miles on 1.6 TD engines, so whether or not the drain goes above or below the sump oil level, must mean precious little in practice, right?
At least with the turbos they used.
Then again, the 1.9 TD did feature an updated oil return - to the block rather than the sump, and they've never gone back again...
Now someone please go and remove the oil return connector from the sump of a 1.6 TD VW and see if oil comes out of the sump. Next time you do an oil change, anyone?
well this worries me as it seems that my turbo has been on for the life of the car at 172k miles, so should i be looking in to getting it re furbed etc, but an interesting read non the less, things like this never even crossed my mind,