VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.
Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: AndyL on April 07, 2009, 12:07:34 pm
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Ok, we've all seen the threads... Not trying to start a cheap chinese knockoffs vs the OEM debate - just trying to figure out whether to invest a bunch in fixing/welding up an OEM head or buying a cheap replacement...
Want some real world information - not speculation about quality etc...
It appears as though a few people here are using the prothe / emiata / etc heads... Real world experience - how are they holding up thus far? Any issues with tollerances / clearances / setup / assembly? Would you buy them again given what you know now?
Thanks in advance,
andy
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Smokey Eddy and Jimfoo are both running his heads. i haven't heard of a failure from either one with regards to them. if i were stuck for cash, and absolutely needed a head, i wouldn't hesitate to try one, but thats just me.
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I read somewhere here of someone having to line bore the cam shaft journals. After that it was ok.
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What brand are they?
I use some AMC ones at work, the Spanish ones.
They get slated but I have really good results with them, the valves are a bit cheap looking but I tend to buy the bare heads and swap the German stuff into them.
Only issues I have had have been the 1.9's where the studs stick up for the rocker cover, the studs must be a tad too long and they won't let you tighten the head fully down, so they leak.
I put washers under the nuts and that cures it.
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What brand are they?
the problem is that prothe won't disclose who makes them. they are most likely of chinese origin, but then again, what isn't made in China anymore??? :lol:
and i'll agree that swapping over the German hardware is a good idea. his prices are also generally 15-20% lower than most places for small hardware such as lifters, valves, seals, etc. i wouldn't be surprised if the lifters are both of the same origin, as i heard from a head rebuilder that there is only 1 (or is it shut down now?) factory in NA that make lifters.
i think Smokey Eddy bought a complete head though? i could be wrong though, but i thought that the 1.6 hardware wouldn't work in a 1.9 head. and regardless, it seems as though he is having great success with his build.
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Smokey Eddy bought a bare head and assembled it his self.
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I cleaned up the TopLine head that is on the wife's car the other day, it looks to be a very good casting. Ports are clean, flanges are nice and smooth, valves are good. And no cracks between the valves! :) I've got no problems running it that I can see. It also appears that the cam caps have been bored on it.
Brendan
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Not specifically asking about the topline heads - think there's enough info out there on those...
It's more these no-name ones prothe sells that I wonder about, did read about the one head that needed the cam align honed, google revealed someone who had to have several valve stem holes cleaned up (bored out to correct size). But then I wonder about that - as it seems no-one else has had that issue - perhaps he was using the wrong valves or (?).
I can see buying the no-name heads; but if they're going to need to visit the machine shop for fixing up - may as well buy the topline or repair an OEM head - price around here ends up about the same...
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I have considered Prothe heads, mostly because local heads are impossible to find and shipping kills getting a used one from somewhere else, and prothe has really good shipping to AK.
but I just hit the motherload of OEM parts locally for cheap, so I will never know what his heads are like(fingers crossed)
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I bought the AAZ off him with valves and stem seals.
I reused (After sitting in solvent for weeks) my keepers, lifters, springs and what not off my 1.6. AND i reused my cam because they are the same.
It had some "bad" casting marks but since i was planning on polishing the ports anyways it wasn't a big deal.
the valves after some very very light lapping seated perfectly.
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PROTHE, as we knew it, is no more, apparently. The new E-bay store is mickey444; all the same stuff, except looks like he dropped the european listings.
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Goggled the company that Prothe listed for his pistons...made in China I think and they seem to also make/sell cylinder heads and a bunch of other 1.6 liter stuff if I remember right.
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im also running his 9$/set piston rings. no complaints on my end EXCEPT that they break very easily during installation but i think all piston rings are fragile and for 9$/set who really cares.
I get 40+ mpg after 10,000km.
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He's a scumbag
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I bought a camplate and rollers from him a while back. I checked hardness of the camplate vs the stock one and dimensions of the cam and it was all within a couple thou, and it was a couple points higher in hardness, all well within any sort of tolerance. The rollers I wasn't as pleased with since they're a 3 piece instead of the 2 piece I pulled out, which would allow for stacked tolerances, but Seattle Injector didn't pull them out when my pump was rebuilt, so I'm not worried.
I'd order from him again.
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I bought a camplate and rollers from him a while back. I checked hardness of the camplate vs the stock one and dimensions of the cam and it was all within a couple thou, and it was a couple points higher in hardness, all well within any sort of tolerance. The rollers I wasn't as pleased with since they're a 3 piece instead of the 2 piece I pulled out, which would allow for stacked tolerances, but Seattle Injector didn't pull them out when my pump was rebuilt, so I'm not worried.
I'd order from him again.
its good to hear some constructive reviews like this. thanks.
i'm surprised that the cam is actually harder too... tintin said that the metals used in the 'chinese' parts were inferior.. hmmm ???
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I am currently running several parts from prothe. I've got tdi pistons from him in a aaz to tdi conversion and so far so good. You still get what you pay for and sometimes cost is the decision maker.
I had plans to order a bare head from him as well but I ended up finding a genuine rebuilt head locally. Any issues that I've had prothe has exceeded my expectations.
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i totally agree.
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Can't speak for the heads myself, but I ordered door handles; boost, EGT, oil temp n pressure gauges for my Mkii... Surprisingly the handles have held up really well, even through our winter, and gauges got the approval of my mentors and friends, not to mention the handles are one of a kind here, hehehe
The kicker is he sent my stuff to Canada via family headed to Eastern Canada, and delivered to me via Canada Post, a rare display of courtesy in my eyes :o
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Can't speak for the heads myself, but I ordered door handles; boost, EGT, oil temp n pressure gauges for my Mkii... Surprisingly the handles have held up really well, even through our winter, and gauges got the approval of my mentors and friends, not to mention the handles are one of a kind here, hehehe
The kicker is he sent my stuff to Canada via family headed to Eastern Canada, and delivered to me via Canada Post, a rare display of courtesy in my eyes :o
thats real nice of him! no customs fee's! i forgot to add that i bought an a/c compressor from him. our customs likes to be real 'naughty' with cross border packages. when i picked up the part, the lady said i could refuse the package if i wanted to, because it looked like some animal got hold of it. knowing where it would return, and who really did the damage, i just took it. the clutched pulley had to be bent back into place because either some retard dropped it, or it was done on purpose. i'm reluctant to buying any larger items now, but only because of that. the part looks good, and hopefully i will be trying it sometime this summer.
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I've bought IP bushings and turbo gaskets, customer service was superb.
BTW I think this thread got a little highjacked, the OP was wondering about prothe's heads.
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I recently bought a built head, not through Prothe but I'm pretty sure its the same manufacturer as the cast marks seem to indicate from prothes pictures that it probably is. The shop who I bought it from has a very good reputation for VW diesel heads and engines. They said it is from China however all the valve train is OEM german parts. I have not had any problems with it, although im only 1000 miles on it. If the shop puts a 1 year unlimited mileage warranty on it I can only assume they have had very good experience with them.
This is a hydraulic head for a 80bhp stock GTD btw.
Will