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General Information => General => Topic started by: Smokey Eddy on March 22, 2009, 01:43:55 am

Title: A Sad Sad Sad sound.... =(
Post by: Smokey Eddy on March 22, 2009, 01:43:55 am
My new build is officially tearing my CV joints a new one!
 :(

All GTD'ers beware!
Increased torque is very unfriendly to old tired, torn boot, CV joints...
I have to drive super slow and to higher RPM now to avoid hearing the terrible tunk*tunk*tunk*tunk*tunk*tunk*tunk of my drive line while starting off the line.

100% power increase = destroyed drive line

  :cry:
Title: A Sad Sad Sad sound.... =(
Post by: jtanguay on March 22, 2009, 05:35:13 am
8)

maybe you should try repacking them with fresh grease? use a grease with moly in it  :wink:
Title: A Sad Sad Sad sound.... =(
Post by: subsonic on March 22, 2009, 05:39:46 am
Rip both those axles outta there, turn em in for the core and get two remanned units.  Cheapest and fasted way to go.  Are they 90 or 100mm?
Title: A Sad Sad Sad sound.... =(
Post by: burn_your_money on March 22, 2009, 05:43:10 am
Get the new ones installed before turning in your cores. I've heard many horror stories of people getting the wrong ones and then being without a car for extended periods of time.
Title: A Sad Sad Sad sound.... =(
Post by: subsonic on March 22, 2009, 05:44:57 am
That there is solid advice :)
Title: A Sad Sad Sad sound.... =(
Post by: Smokey Eddy on March 22, 2009, 12:32:06 pm
would repacking it really do anything?
It is only one that is bad. And that's the one with the torn boot.
I've looked into replacing them but i really just don't have the coin to.
Title: A Sad Sad Sad sound.... =(
Post by: Dakotakid on March 22, 2009, 03:17:07 pm
Maybe time to consider stepping up to 100 mm flanges and joints?? You fellas up north still got good salvage yards, yes??
Title: A Sad Sad Sad sound.... =(
Post by: jtanguay on March 22, 2009, 04:42:01 pm
Quote from: "Smokey Eddy"
would repacking it really do anything?
It is only one that is bad. And that's the one with the torn boot.
I've looked into replacing them but i really just don't have the coin to.


i've had a torn boot before too.  there was a distinct clicking noise at low speed that went away at high speed.  i packed it full of grease through the tearing and it went away... obviously i just wanted to buy a little time  :lol:  but if you were able to buy a new boot, or even repair the old one (yes its possible to bond rubber to rubber) to save some cash and repack it, chances are the problem should go away, unless you've actually damaged it.
Title: A Sad Sad Sad sound.... =(
Post by: Smokey Eddy on March 22, 2009, 07:38:31 pm
Quote from: "jtanguay"
Quote from: "Smokey Eddy"
would repacking it really do anything?
It is only one that is bad. And that's the one with the torn boot.
I've looked into replacing them but i really just don't have the coin to.


i've had a torn boot before too.  there was a distinct clicking noise at low speed that went away at high speed.  i packed it full of grease through the tearing and it went away... obviously i just wanted to buy a little time  :lol:  but if you were able to buy a new boot, or even repair the old one (yes its possible to bond rubber to rubber) to save some cash and repack it, chances are the problem should go away, unless you've actually damaged it.



It's a pretty significant racket under torque... i can't hear any noise while driving...at any speed it's a quiet ride... its in 1st gear getting going or pulling in 2nd when i hear and feel it.
Title: A Sad Sad Sad sound.... =(
Post by: RabbitJockey on March 22, 2009, 07:43:33 pm
just put 2 new ones in it takes half an hour per side and they cost 50 dollars a piece.  i never even mess with torn boots, if it has a torn boot i just get a whole new axel, i hate ***ing around tearing the cv joint off to replace them
Title: A Sad Sad Sad sound.... =(
Post by: Smokey Eddy on March 22, 2009, 07:44:30 pm
50$ Where on earth do you guys find these prices....
30 minutes? yeah if you have the right bit and an impact gun... and a car lift
right?
Title: A Sad Sad Sad sound.... =(
Post by: Vincent Waldon on March 22, 2009, 07:49:50 pm
 $96.99, Canadian, will get you both CV joints and the axle in between, all ready to bolt on, no core charge, free delivery.  (http://catalog.worldpac.com/marks/wizard.jsp?header=http://www.bestpricecarparts.com/cdnheader.txt&footer=http://www.bestpricecarparts.com/cdnfooter.txt&partner=marks&clientid=importcarpartscanada.ca&baseurl=http://www.importcarpartscanada.ca/&cookieid=2I21CE65C2IC14PBO9&year=1992&make=VW&model=JET-D-001&category=All&part=Axle+Assembly)

I don't fight with getting CV joints on or off any more... at that price the whole axle is just too easy. EMPI too, good brand.
Title: A Sad Sad Sad sound.... =(
Post by: Smokey Eddy on March 22, 2009, 07:50:43 pm
Ha, Vince. I was just looking at that RIGHT now. Thanks.

What else would i want? Wheel bearing kit for it as well? a worn CV would have knackered that wheel bearing yes?
Title: A Sad Sad Sad sound.... =(
Post by: RabbitJockey on March 22, 2009, 07:55:31 pm
Quote from: "Smokey Eddy"
50$ Where on earth do you guys find these prices....
30 minutes? yeah if you have the right bit and an impact gun... and a car lift
right?


well i guess i didn't mention i get the napa employee discount, they're actually only 45 for me.  half an hour is a bit exaggerated, but i don't have the right bit and an impact, no lift tho.  i use an extension on the impact to whizz out all the bolts, its a beautiful thing, especially when me and my dad do it together cause i can line up the bit into the bolts while he pulls the trigger.  really an easy job tho.  especially the passengers side.
Title: A Sad Sad Sad sound.... =(
Post by: Smokey Eddy on March 22, 2009, 07:57:51 pm
Well that's the side i have to do! :D


But i have don't have the bit nor an impact gun... and im under the impression that you kind of need one because the bolts are torqued to a specific "Super freakin tight" spec, aren't they?

101$ shipped to my door isn't too bad!
Just really wish i had a job  :evil:
Title: A Sad Sad Sad sound.... =(
Post by: RabbitJockey on March 22, 2009, 08:03:20 pm
i have done them by hand they aren't particularly tight, i think they are supposed be 30 foot pounds or something like that, but i;ve never used a torque wrench on them.  tights tight i guess.
Title: A Sad Sad Sad sound.... =(
Post by: Smokey Eddy on March 22, 2009, 08:04:08 pm
really? oh man i thought each one was at like 130 ft/lbs...

this is sounding more plausible every post! thanks man.
Title: A Sad Sad Sad sound.... =(
Post by: Vincent Waldon on March 22, 2009, 08:22:02 pm
Quote from: "Smokey Eddy"

What else would i want? Wheel bearing kit for it as well? a worn CV would have knackered that wheel bearing yes?


Nah, don't mess with the Zoltan....er... wheel bearing... unless you really have to.  It won't have been damaged by a worn CV joint and you need a press to R&R them.

In terms of torque, you're probably thinking of the big 30mm axle nut... yes you'll need a breaker bar and cheater pipe to get it off, and it does get torqued down pretty good (265 Nm 195 ft lbs), but nothing to scare you off.  Princess Auto almost always has a sale on 1/2" breaker bars.:wink:

The 8mm triple-square bolts themselves get torqued to 45 Nm 33 ft lbs.

I like to remove the upper ball joint bolt and pop the control arm down so that the entire steering knuckle swings wide to give me lots of room.... others mark the position of the lower ball joint mount (so as not to screw up the alignment)and then pull the three mounting bolts... whichever are the least rusty is probably the way to go.
Title: A Sad Sad Sad sound.... =(
Post by: Smokey Eddy on March 23, 2009, 02:02:10 am
There was a post on doing this was there not?
Title: A Sad Sad Sad sound.... =(
Post by: jtanguay on March 23, 2009, 12:20:42 pm
the best way to do this IMO is to have the wheel raised (you can drive it up on a ramp but be sure to have safety jacks just in case), remove the axle nut and then remove the triple square bolts.  you should be able to take the driveshaft out of the flange and lower it and then yank the splines out of the spindle.  no messing around!  8)

but yes it is definitely easier to take out by removing the ball joint, but it isn't necessary.
Title: A Sad Sad Sad sound.... =(
Post by: Smokey Eddy on March 23, 2009, 12:38:39 pm
Ahh, i want to avoid venturing into territory where removal and reinstall would further damage them or increase wear on already worn parts. I have ramps. I'll do that. Thanks man.
Title: A Sad Sad Sad sound.... =(
Post by: jtanguay on March 23, 2009, 08:09:52 pm
i think if you have a spring compressor you can further extend the CV joint if necessary, but i don't think you'll need to.  i almost had to use them changing the ball joint on my dads daewoo (car has about 160,000km and the ball join breaks.   :roll:)  and surprisingly it wasn't the passenger side which gets constantly slammed by pot holes and grates...
Title: A Sad Sad Sad sound.... =(
Post by: Dewey on March 24, 2009, 07:06:43 pm
Easiest way i have found to swap axles:

Break loose the big nut with the wheel still on the car and on the ground.

Jack up car.

loosen all the triple square bolts (leaving the tire on gives you or a friend something to hold while loosening the small bolts)

Remove tire. (gives you more room to work)  

remove front lower control arm bolt.

Have a friend pull on the knuckle and slide the axle from the hub.

Remove from the car.

Reinstall is just the opposite.
Title: A Sad Sad Sad sound.... =(
Post by: Smokey Eddy on March 25, 2009, 12:20:14 am
Thanks! I'll review all of these when i get my parts.
are any of the bolts torque to yield? :( I don't think they are ... no "1/4" turns... just straight torque values yes?

just a quick note, do you all agree that i should do both at the same time? or if only 1 side is making noise and the other side (the short side) doesn't have a torn boot it's likely fine?

100$ is decent change in the pockets of a student. I don't want to spend 100$ just for the sake of having new parts.

Edit: aw what ever i'll just do both. It's probably both making the noise anyways.
Title: A Sad Sad Sad sound.... =(
Post by: jtanguay on March 25, 2009, 10:11:19 am
Quote from: "Smokey Eddy"
Thanks! I'll review all of these when i get my parts.
are any of the bolts torque to yield? :( I don't think they are ... no "1/4" turns... just straight torque values yes?

just a quick note, do you all agree that i should do both at the same time? or if only 1 side is making noise and the other side (the short side) doesn't have a torn boot it's likely fine?

100$ is decent change in the pockets of a student. I don't want to spend 100$ just for the sake of having new parts.

Edit: aw what ever i'll just do both. It's probably both making the noise anyways.


you don't need to do both sides.  just the ripped one.  it wouldn't be a bad idea to repack the side with the untorn boots though.  getting the clamps off can be a pain though.
Title: A Sad Sad Sad sound.... =(
Post by: Smokey Eddy on March 25, 2009, 01:50:08 pm
Okay. Thanks  :D
I'll need some axle grease then and lots of it.
Title: A Sad Sad Sad sound.... =(
Post by: jtanguay on March 25, 2009, 02:54:28 pm
Quote from: "Smokey Eddy"
Okay. Thanks  :D
I'll need some axle grease then and lots of it.


you can buy axle grease that has moly lube in it.  highly recommended  :wink:
Title: A Sad Sad Sad sound.... =(
Post by: Smokey Eddy on March 25, 2009, 07:41:59 pm
what is "moly" anyways
i have some left over from the head studs.
Title: A Sad Sad Sad sound.... =(
Post by: jtanguay on March 25, 2009, 08:52:59 pm
Quote from: "Smokey Eddy"
what is "moly" anyways
i have some left over from the head studs.


Molybdenum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molybdenum) - its used in oils such as lubro moly, etc.  to reduce wear.  it would be perfect to use it in a high stress area such as the CV joints.

Quote from: "Wikipedia"
Molybdenum disulfide (MoS2) is used as a solid lubricant and an extreme pressure (EP) antiwear agent. It forms strong films on metallic surfaces, and is highly resistant to both extreme temperatures and high pressure, and for this reason, it is a common additive to extreme pressure application greases; in case of a catastrophic failure, the thin layer of molybdenum prevents metal-on-metal contact
Title: A Sad Sad Sad sound.... =(
Post by: Smokey Eddy on March 25, 2009, 09:18:04 pm
Oooooooo
so what if you added some to your motor oil?  :D :O
or is that what synthetic oil is? :P
Title: A Sad Sad Sad sound.... =(
Post by: jtanguay on March 25, 2009, 09:52:32 pm
not all synthetic oils have moly.  check this out (http://www.liqui-moly.at/liquimoly/produktdb.nsf/id/e_car_nt000053d2.html).  most people swear by their additives  :wink:

my local c-tire sells a wheel bearing grease with moly in it.  it has an orange container (or maybe just orange top? its been a while...) that stuff should be good for CV joints right?

if you could find this stuff (http://www.liqui-moly.at/liquimoly/produktdb.nsf/id/e_3510.html), thats what you should use.
Title: A Sad Sad Sad sound.... =(
Post by: Smokey Eddy on March 25, 2009, 09:58:06 pm
Sweet SAUCE! I'll spend my $40 cad tire money i've saved on it!
Title: A Sad Sad Sad sound.... =(
Post by: truckinwagen on March 25, 2009, 10:21:39 pm
I have had great results rebuilding CV Joints for aircooled vw's(exactly the same as the 90mm watercooled ones)

I just pull it apart and clean everything with carb cleaner, then inspect.

it will be obvious if the joint is shot, lots of pitting where the balls meet the races.

then rebuild, grease like a wheel bearing(grease in palm of hand, work it in until it comes out other side) and install backwards of original(so that the driving forces are on fresher surfaces normally used only when backing up or engine breaking)

you can get lots of life out of CV's that many think are shot!
Title: A Sad Sad Sad sound.... =(
Post by: Smokey Eddy on March 25, 2009, 11:59:16 pm
Hmmm. Interesting...

But is getting it apart the hard part?
Someone suggested (on this thread) that it's more worth the bother just to buy a new drive shaft with the CV's already on them....
Title: A Sad Sad Sad sound.... =(
Post by: jtanguay on March 26, 2009, 07:56:44 am
Quote from: "Smokey Eddy"
Hmmm. Interesting...

But is getting it apart the hard part?
Someone suggested (on this thread) that it's more worth the bother just to buy a new drive shaft with the CV's already on them....


the hardest part getting them apart is the stupid steel clamp, and sometimes they're not all the same (depending on if they've been rebuilt or not).  removing the clamps to be re-useable is probably very difficult, but doable. i have not found out how, but would like to know.
Title: A Sad Sad Sad sound.... =(
Post by: truckinwagen on March 26, 2009, 08:18:07 am
I always replace the clamp with a circlip, they stock ones always bend and wont properly hold the joint on the shaft, circlips are easier to install and remove, are re-usable and cheap.
Title: A Sad Sad Sad sound.... =(
Post by: westcoaster on April 01, 2009, 08:29:01 pm
Smokey,

I'm parting an '87 jetta that had a 1.6TD in it. still have the shafts.
To the best of my recolection, Passenger side at the tranny didn't have any tears, drivers side did.
Wasn't rattling when parked. Make a reasonable offer.
I'll have to pull the shafts.
If nothing else, you have a set of shafts to make your mistakes on before you get to the good ones.

Car is in Maple Ridge, I'm in Surrey.


westcoasterz (at) gmail (dot) com