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General Information => General => Topic started by: Rat407 on August 12, 2005, 10:22:29 am
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I wasn't sure where to put this.
I had a down pipe made for my 91 1.6L Jetta with the KKK K14 turbo. I brought up the question to the guy that made it to see if he was interested in making more to sell and he seemed interested.
So how many would be interested in purchasing a 2.5 inch down pipe? I'm only familiar with my style of down pipe and not with an A1. Any help I can get on the differences between the A1 and A2 would be great. Then making one for the A1 shouldn't be a problem.
Also, what is the difference between the KKK and the Garret turbo set up besides the mounting flange?
Just wanted to get some feelers out there to see if anyone was interested. If so then we will sit down and get something together as to what a total cost would be for the downpipe.
Once mine is complete I will have pictures available.
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Definately interested in one for my 85 TD Jetta.
Is this the toilet bowl type?
Thanks.
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Not the toilet bowl type. At least not for now. This would be just like the A3 downpipe. One piece that runs all the way down and points back about 4 inches past the rack steering.
Didn't really think of just making a bigger downpipe to fit to the toilet bowl. That can be done as well if that is what you want. But you still loose pipe size at the bottom part of the toilet bowl, unless you change that as well.
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Here are some rough pictures matching it to the 1.9 A3 downpipe. There is no flex pipe in the one we made. This is just to get it out for some to see what I'm talking about.
(http://[URL=http://img185.imageshack.us/my.php?image=downpipe14rp.jpg][img]http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/558/downpipe14rp.th.jpg)[/URL][/img]
(http://[URL=http://img185.imageshack.us/my.php?image=downpipe20mv.jpg][img]http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/2874/downpipe20mv.th.jpg)[/URL][/img]
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Hey, that stock downpipe looks familiar! :)
I have a few questions about the downpipe you made. Can you not use a full 90 degree elbow at the flange bolted to the turbo, or do you not have enough room with the A2's. I'm sure that having to cut all those small sections and welding them together is a bit@#. I used one full 90 degree elbow and a 45 degree elbow in roughly the shape of an S (not a full S though more like a 3/4 S) to go from the turbo flange to the same point where you have that ~ 4" straight piece of tube. Doing so could eliminate 8 sections going from 10 to 2.
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I would say it would fit like you said. The guy that did this for me wanted to do it this way. I just let it up to him since he was doing all the work. I guess if we get enough interest then it will be up to him on how he wants to make them. The 1.9 down pipe was a big help. :D
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Yeah, I would almost definitely be interested. But it would depends on price, obviously. If he wants $500 for one then I'd have to pass :-)
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I'm concerned that you removed the flex joint and I didn't see any support bracket for it.
The stock turbo outpipe is supported just before the toilet bowl, not far from the turbo outlet.
Isn't this like putting a big lever on the turbo and putting pressure on it every time the engine moves.
Almost all the modded turbo "downpipes" I've seen on here lately are doing this. Putting the stress relieving toilet bowl or flex section far from the turbo, changing the dynamics of how the engine moves in relation to the exhaust pipe.
These things are art and I hate mentioning what I see as flaws but in my mind I see these things trying to move the exhaust several inches, on the end of a big lever ... and the turbo is supporting it all.
Trying to imagine them, even at idle, makes me wonder where they will crack and how long it will take.
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My stock A2 downpipe isn't supported. It's cast iron so it will never break though. A flex joint will help a dp, but unless you make it out of cast iron there's always the chance it will crack. If it does crack, guess what? Pay $10 at your local exhaust shop and have it rewelded. Bolt it back on and you're done.
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You took your support off or it was never there?
Important to mention yours isn't as long as the one shown so there isn't as much torque on it.
If it does crack, guess what? Pay $10 at your local exhaust shop and have it rewelded. Bolt it back on and you're done.
Makes it less reliable for long trips from home.
Good point though; if you only drive local and have time (at a moments notice) to pull your exhaust, drop it at the shop and wait for them to fix it, it won't be a problem.
Not sure about it's strength but I have seen cracks in cast iron. The old dual down, downpipes on the NA, A1 diesels ... so the cracks were even on something somewhat related to the turbo diesel downpipes we are talking about.
These old NA diesel downpipes were quite long and were supported down low, just before the accordian style expansion pipe. Supported by brackets bolted to the trany and one bolted to the block.
I'm not sure but it seems like the A1 engine would move more than the those with the A2 motor mount setup.
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I'm concerned that you removed the flex joint and I didn't see any support bracket for it.
The stock turbo outpipe is supported just before the toilet bowl, not far from the turbo outlet.
Isn't this like putting a big lever on the turbo and putting pressure on it every time the engine moves.
Almost all the modded turbo "downpipes" I've seen on here lately are doing this. Putting the stress relieving toilet bowl or flex section far from the turbo, changing the dynamics of how the engine moves in relation to the exhaust pipe.
These things are art and I hate mentioning what I see as flaws but in my mind I see these things trying to move the exhaust several inches, on the end of a big lever ... and the turbo is supporting it all.
Trying to imagine them, even at idle, makes me wonder where they will crack and how long it will take.
Cool, This is what I'm looking for. Information so we can incorporate it to the down pipe so it will hold up. We are going to put a brace on the down pipe where the factory brace was at. This picture was just to show everyone what I was talking about. There will be a brace just have not put it on yet. Also do you think the ball flange with spring bolts will be good enough of a flex joint? That is what I was looking at doing. If not we can put a flex joint in just below that brace to the exhaust manifold. Problem with that is the cost but then it would help in the movement of the system.
Keep the information coming. We want to get this right the first time.
Thanks.
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How much would that flex section add to the cost? If you make them to order you could always just make it an optional component.
I have the A2 turbo downpipe, cast iron, and as far as I know there was never any support. It's not very long either, maybe 24"?
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There are seveal factors effecting the price. I guess it will all depend on what the downpipe is made too what specific spec's. A flex tube right now would add an extra $30. That is the cost of a 2.5" x 6" long flex. If anyone knows of a cheaper source that would really help.
The downpipes we are looking at making will be all TIG welded and the turbo flange is made on a CNC machine. So all the welds will have good penetration which is important. Because I have a 91 Jetta TD this downpipe will have the bracket that mounts to the exhaust manifold since I know exactly where to put it.
We are still working on a price.
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rackley - your eco-diesel should have the same support bracket, part number 191 253 197, as is found on A2 Jetta turbo-diesels engine code "MF". I believe that all transverse mounted IDI VW turbo-diesels came from the factory with downpipe support brackets.
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Hey Rat407, Glad you can handle a little criticism and understand it's all toward the goal of making the most functional, reliable and affordable downpipe design we can come up with. Long overdue.
I kinda wish someone had said something bad about the one I made so I would have some fresh ideas for improving the next one.
A friend came over and took the Golf for a spin, to see how much better it sounds and runs since the 2.5" downpipe and exhaust were installed. It's getting better but after he took off I noticed that there was almost no smoke under heavy load ... there was always plenty of smoke before the upgrade. Guess it needs more fuel. :D
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i'd take one for a mkI 1.6TD if you made one and the price was reasonable. i have a 1.9TD pipe from a mkIII for a core too if that helps. been meaning to do this but still haven't gotten around to it... the sound is nice, but at some point, the car should maybe have an exhaust system. :lol: lemme know!
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Just an update, but due to a family issue I will be out of town starting today till next Saturday. Keep the ideas and suggestions coming, I would like to be able to make something that will work well and hold up even better. Once all the information is collected then I can get a price together.
Thanks.
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I'm back home. Now to finish up my down pipe. Does anyone know what it would cost to have a downpipe JetHot Coated?
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I don't think it would provide much benefit really. No measurable one anyway, especially not on our cars.
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Down pipe cost. We are running into a little problem coming up with a cost to produce the down pipe. Right now the cheapest I can get the materials for is $40 so with that in mind what does everyone think a good price would be for a 2.5 inch down pipe that fits a 1991,A2 Jetta TD which is what I have and my friend knows how to make. I would imagine this would fit any A2 body. Correct me if I'm wrong. In the last picture you can see how it is supported to the manifold by the original bracket and a 2.5" muffler clamp welded to a bracket and then bolted to the original bracket. Also I installed a flex pipe to help with movement. Hope it works.
(http://img375.imageshack.us/img375/2484/downpipe36dc.th.jpg) (http://img375.imageshack.us/my.php?image=downpipe36dc.jpg)
(http://img398.imageshack.us/img398/6051/installed24vb.th.jpg) (http://img398.imageshack.us/my.php?image=installed24vb.jpg)
(http://img400.imageshack.us/img400/3752/installed51mc.th.jpg) (http://img400.imageshack.us/my.php?image=installed51mc.jpg)
(http://img400.imageshack.us/img400/6488/clampinstalled2dk.th.jpg) (http://img400.imageshack.us/my.php?image=clampinstalled2dk.jpg)
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(http://img400.imageshack.us/img400/6488/clampinstalled2dk.jpg)
muffler clamp support bracket... ingenious! :)
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Well $50 sounds good to me 8)
Just set a price that's not too unreasonable and that your buddy would be willing to actually make some for. Obviously if he's only getting paid $10 a DP to make them he's not going to be real enthusiastic about it :D
So if your buddy will be willing to go through the hassle of making them for $xx cash in his pocket each then that's really what it boils down to.
Ray
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if you can get one made for mkI chassis... name your price!
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I think this would go well with my 91 ECO since that's what you used to prototype it. Count me in once a price is settled.
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Any updates? I ship out in a week and will be cut off from civilization, so if it's later than that I won't be able to place an order until December-ish.
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I too would be very interested in purchasing one of these down pipes, if you have figured out a price, pm me or email me at [email protected]. I am going to be home in 3 weeks to finish my TD and would definately purchase one.
-Nick
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me too
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I would be interested as well... especially a stainless steel version.
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Also interested.... let me know the cost