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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: hamradio on February 18, 2009, 05:56:14 pm

Title: Which of these t3's would be ideal?
Post by: hamradio on February 18, 2009, 05:56:14 pm: So, I have two t3's. Or what I believe to be two t3's.

The one on the left has an exhaust side of .48, compressor side of .60, and I believe 60 trim. The one on the right has an exhaust side of .48, compressor side of .42, and 50 trim.

If I'm shooting for 25 psi (which neither of these will be efficient at), would the larger one be better? Also, why does the smaller one have a different flange? And lastly, would water cooling be of any help on a diesel?

Thanks.

(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb280/kc0kbh/P1050912.jpg)
Title: Which of these t3's would be ideal?
Post by: hamradio on February 18, 2009, 06:41:57 pm: Neither of these are stock diesel turbos. The right one is a volvo unit, I'm speculating that the left one is from a turbo ford...too large of a comp housing for a saab of the era, I think.
Title: Which of these t3's would be ideal?
Post by: hamradio on February 18, 2009, 07:12:09 pm: Yes.
Title: Which of these t3's would be ideal?
Post by: Smokey Eddy on February 18, 2009, 08:02:30 pm: I vote left. Big turbo AND water cooled. You'd need to plum it though (plumb? plummer... yeah plum)
I was plum surprised.
Title: Which of these t3's would be ideal?
Post by: jtanguay on February 18, 2009, 10:05:32 pm: the water cooling adds another component to the setup... unless you want to install a turbo timer. (the coolant will boil and possibly 'burn' inside a super hot turbo)

the higher a/r turbo will take longer to spool, and the lower trim will give you more low end boost, which with a diesel is what you want. the higher trim turbo will probably allow you to produce lots of HP in the top end though... but then you need to do other things like modify the pump to allow for high rpm, and then you get into balancing everything...

just my $0.02
Title: Which of these t3's would be ideal?
Post by: hamradio on February 19, 2009, 05:27:19 am: fwiw, I'm shooting for 140whp. Could the 50 trim (smaller one) actually flow that?
Title: Which of these t3's would be ideal?
Post by: arb on February 19, 2009, 06:45:53 am: Quote from: "Smokey Eddy"
I vote left. Big turbo AND water cooled. You'd need to plum it though (plumb? plummer... yeah plum)
I was plum surprised.

Yeah, water cooled has my vote too. If you idle for a short time, you don't need a coolant timer or anything - it will cool off much quicker with the water cooling.
Title: Which of these t3's would be ideal?
Post by: hamradio on February 19, 2009, 09:49:33 am: I'm not really concerned about water vs oil cooled. I have no problem giving the car a little cool-off period...I already do that to begin with.

So, back to the original question, will the 50 or 60 trim be more desirable for 25 psi and a target of 140 whp? One thing that bugs me is the flanges are different...if I put the 60 on and it is too big, I'd need to make a flange adapter for the 50.
Title: Which of these t3's would be ideal?
Post by: zukgod1 on February 19, 2009, 09:52:04 am: I think you will be happier with the smaller turbo personally.
Title: Which of these t3's would be ideal?
Post by: hamradio on February 19, 2009, 05:21:20 pm: At this point, I'm willing to give up instant boost and no lag (as experienced with the vnt) for more power.

I'll be using a gasser intake mani, and custom building a log manifold for the exhaust. I've never been thrilled with how tiny the stock manifold was.

Can I run the watercooled one without coolant? I'm thinking of trying out the larger one, if it is way too laggy, swap to the smaller one (just use the exhaust housing off of the larger one...both have same a/r's, but the large one uses a 'normal' t3 flange).

I'm also thinking of scouring the local junkyard (has a huge heavy equipment section) for a holset hx25.
Title: Which of these t3's would be ideal?
Post by: foxracer1 on February 19, 2009, 05:35:33 pm: What engines, equipmtent, vehicles came with the Holset 25?
Title: Which of these t3's would be ideal?
Post by: hamradio on February 19, 2009, 05:48:24 pm: Not sure! I was thinking maybe cummins 4bt or something, but I can't find anything showing that the hx25 was an application on them. There is a ridiculous amount of industrial equipment, diesel trucks, etc at the local JY. That's what is making me think I might be able to scrounge something up from there.
Title: Which of these t3's would be ideal?
Post by: jtanguay on February 19, 2009, 06:38:11 pm: the T3 that came standard with vw 1.6TD's was also used on the 3.0TD 5 cyl mercedes diesel engine. that motor produced about 120hp at 10 psi (or so) boost. so i'd imagine that with some better airflow, and more fuel, 140hp should be easy.
Title: Which of these t3's would be ideal?
Post by: AdAm84 on February 19, 2009, 07:53:19 pm: FYI 4BT's came with HY30W's A friend is planning 300HP with one of these on his Turbo Dodge.
Title: Which of these t3's would be ideal?
Post by: hamradio on February 20, 2009, 08:17:00 am: I thought the different variations of 4b, 4bt, etc came with a myriad of different turbos.

Anyway, what I'm going to do is build a log manifold from mild steel weld els with a t3 flange. I'd start with the large one, tap into the heater core lines just for testing, and if it is painfully laggy (or leaks oil everywhere), swap to the 50 trim.
Title: Which of these t3's would be ideal?
Post by: andy2 on February 21, 2009, 06:52:10 pm: The smaller turbo will be overkill but will work.What you really need is the mercdes diesel Turbocharger its 45 trim I think and will support 140 whp.
Title: Which of these t3's would be ideal?
Post by: dillenger1 on February 21, 2009, 06:55:23 pm: mercedes comp wheel is much bigger im building a hybrid right now with the vw unit.
Title: Which of these t3's would be ideal?
Post by: foxracer1 on February 21, 2009, 07:20:19 pm: rabbitgtd i think ran a merc turbo on his mTDI and had good things to say about it. I'm really thinking of finding one to run.

dillenger1 what parts are you mixing and matching?
Title: Which of these t3's would be ideal?
Post by: hamradio on February 21, 2009, 07:59:30 pm: The fun is soon to begin. I'll be picking up a 1.7 gasser head to do mockup work on (don't want to have to do the mockup work on the engine in the car). I already have 2 1.5" mild steel weld elbows around...I just need a foot or two of sched. 40 1.5" steel pipe, and some flanges for the exhaust manifold. I'm going to make an intake manifold by cutting off the bottom runner parts of some intake manifold (whatever I have around...probably an old NA manifold or something) and weld on a plenum made out of a portion of scrap aluminum irrigation pipe.

This is a budget build, after all. :) I'd rather put money towards getting my bilsteins rebuilt, or intercooler stuff.
Title: Which of these t3's would be ideal?
Post by: hamradio on February 22, 2009, 08:17:20 pm: OK,

I'm wondering, if I'm shooting for 140whp, should I get some giles rebuilt injectors,

or,

should I take my chances with some prothe benz nozzles in 1.6td body injectors?

I seem to recall people saying rebuilt injectors flow just fine, and that benz nozzles cause prechambers to fall out and other stuff.

Thoughts?

I am going to go with the 50 trim. I cleaned it up today and will be swapping turbine housings to a more useful one (one with a real t3 flange vs volvo flange). If it is too small, I'll swap the 60 trim wheel and comp housing onto it. The turbo has normal side-side play and very minimal end play.
Title: Which of these t3's would be ideal?
Post by: foxracer1 on February 22, 2009, 08:24:55 pm: I'd say run it. Whats the worse that could happen it would laggy or surge? As long you don't continue to surge it. Try it and report to us your findings.

I have some large T4 turbos but they are far to large to even try on a small diesel :x