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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: fspGTD on August 08, 2005, 07:54:07 am
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I am trying to take apart (to clean, learn about, rebuild, etc) a KKK K24 turbo off an '84 Jetta 1.6lTD.
I got past the step that seems to cause a lot of folks problems - removing the turbine housing bolts. Actually I was alarmed how loose they seemed to be, no doubt penetrating oil helped. And I managed to get the turbine housing off the center section successfully and squarely too, without damaging the turbine wheel. They were stuck together pretty tightly so that was a challenge.
Now I am trying to remove the wastegate from the turbine housing, and I am a bit stuck. I successfully removed the three 5mm allen-head bolts holding the wastegate to the turbine housing, and the wastegate is free except for the valve that protrudes out and through what looks to be a pressed-in valve guide. The head of the wastegate valve is behind the valve guide, so it won't come out. I tried slide-hammering the guide out using the wastegate, but that wasn't a good idea as I think I might have bent something inside. How do I get the valve guide out? Anyone done this successfully and if so, how?
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SOmeone may have to correct me, but the local turbo guy told me that that thing is actually threaded in. The three bolts aren't actually holding it together.
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I,ve had a couple of k14,k24 wastegates out from the housing and they are a bit of trouble to get off.there is two thin heatshield/gasket cups that are just usually stuck in the housing with rust.Basically you can only get them out by pulling on the wastegate which causes one of the shields to bend a little and then they will eventually pull outfrom the housing.The small bend in the one shield is nothing to worry about and they will be reuseable with out any issues.The slide hammer is definitely the tool of choice here Just keep doing what you were doing and it will come out without hurting anything :wink:
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Thanks Andy2!
Another question along these lines: Do you know if the wastegate can be disassembled or opened up somehow? Or is the end cap permanently swaged on? (It looks like it might be...) Would removing the nut and possibly the allen-headed stud sticking out of the end help it come apart somehow? Is that just connected internally to an adjustable spring seat? Thanks again.
Here is a pic of this turbo:
(http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid181/pcc9c7ee36e9fe5ba213e0503194f7658/f2e89dc8.jpg)
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I,ve also had the wastegate's cover off too.Using two screwdrivers I just worked my way around the cover's crimp as if it were a tin can (just be careful as you will be reusing it).I had no problems putting it back together and it was in alot worse condition than the one you have.The reason I took mine a part in the first place was that it was seized open and was otherwise useless so I had nothing to loose by taking it apart.If you test it using regulated air and it works without sticking then just leave it alone.Dr.diesel and I have played around with the screw on the cover to raise the opening pressure but it doesn't make much difference and if you screw it in far enough you can reduce the valve's opening travel as the screw also acts as a stop when the valve is fully open.This will raise boost by simply not allowing the wastegate to open all the way and will send EGT's way up.I would leave that ajustment alone Or put a bigger spring in the wastegate.So for anyone else looking to raise boost on the k14,k24 the best way is to just put a bleed in the line or use a boost controller, just leave the screw alone!
BTW just for reference the k14,k24 wastegates ar not interchangeable,as I found out also :cry:
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When I took a customers turbo for inspection the TurboDude could get mine apart, he went and got it redicularsley hot, it came apart then.
He tried levers and hammers with no avail after the screws were removed.
As it happened the actuator was completely jammed, hence problem with car.
Actuator was on back order (For and AAZ) for a good few months, he managed to find a recon unit and fitted that instead.
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Andy2: Thanks again for the info.
Mr Brick-Yard: I was able to get my turbine housing off by hammering a wedge between the turbine housing and the oil supply/return bulges of the cast iron center housing. I alternated between the oil supply and the oil return bulges to keep the turbine housing coming off squarely. I noticed that if it got cocked, the turbine wheel would rub on the turbine housing, and I imagine getting it even more cocked could have bent some turbine wheel fins. So be sure to keep it coming off squarely if you try this yourself folks!
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Pics!
Here is where I started today:
(http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid181/p83422b38cb82fb50225038058459daa1/f2df4615.jpg)
The wastegate was stuck...
(http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid181/pebebfa10afad6ac7ecfda4e77e0af1d5/f2df60b5.jpg)
So following Andy2's advice, I slide hammered those heat shields out of there! Here is what it looked like when they came out... lots of carbon built up:
(http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid181/p79f0ae9856ebc15840ba380e4ff7ec08/f2df3f80.jpg)
The wastegate passages are kind of interesting. The gasses flow in toward the wastegate. Could the wastegate really get a good seal on this valve seat???
(http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid181/p9ad515b16c22ae4f5d5621f6700ac54e/f2df5dbf.jpg)
Some wastegate measurements:
wastegate valve seat ID: 24mm
wastegate valve head diameter: 31mm
wastegate installed travel/pre-load: 2mm
pressure to reach 2mm travel: 10 psi (approximate. Note: it is very "sticky" when completely closed.)
max travel: 10mm (8mm travel from touching the valve seat)
pressure to reach max travel: approx 14 psi
These wastegate pressure measurements pretty closely match what is published in the SAE paper:
(http://www.4crawler.com/Diesel/SAE/figure_58.jpg)
Some detail of the turbine wheel. The vanes look pretty aerodynamic. I am impressed overall with the quality of this KKK turbo...
(http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid181/p5ca71734fc4a2af9b890c40b00066755/f2df33b6.jpg)
Turbine wheel specs:
OD: 59mm
exducer bore diameter: 49.5mm
thickness of fin section: 21mm
Compressor section "GW" before disassembly:
(http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid181/p008df3a8b64a218123461bb6c814b478/f2df38d9.jpg)
Here is what the inside of the compressor housing looks like:
(http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid181/p0ebc3d35edaf09b9c8e875ed3acdeb64/f2df54a7.jpg)
Diffuser style is like most modern turbos, a parallel wall diffuser. The outer wall looks like a separate piece of metal that is pressed into the main housing.
Compressor wheel is a backward curved impeller type. This allows for more efficiency although less pressure ratio capability. Detailed shot:
(http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid181/p4df898977f417f140b22d6d45091dcbe/f2df3453.jpg)
The measurements of the compressor wheel are:
inducer bore: 37.5mm
OD: 60.5mm
And here is what the cartridge looks like (AKA the "guts" of the turbo...) A large colored o-ring seals the compressor housing to the cartridge.
(http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid181/pf8ca906b6a583994d5673ad635b2ede0/f2df3714.jpg)
I also tried to get some measurements necessary to calculate the turbine housing A/R ratio...
(http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid181/pb485f867d1c80508f09da0ce8a554b9b/f2df408c.jpg)
This thickness of 8mm was measured at a 59mm diameter.
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I made some more progress with the turbo disassembly today...
To get the compressor wheel off, I first removed the nut, then I played some heat onto the compressor wheel with an oxy-acetylene torch. At about the point where the wheel got hot enough that the oil residue started smoking, I tapped it into a coffee can lined with some paper towel cushioning. The compressor wheel fell right off.
(http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid181/p687e5f3187ad4fd31f1cd762a9c04a94/f2dc0610.jpg)
Behind the compressor wheel, I found four T-30 bolts holding on the compressor backing plate:
(http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid181/p688532c9bf642c364d27c9e403988b6e/f2dc0512.jpg)
After removing those bolts, the backing plate came off without trouble. Here is what it looks like behind the backing plate:
(http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid181/p203af2fbeee9bcd7d4c51b81817c2ebe/f2dc03ac.jpg)
Anyone have a good source on a rebuild kit for one of these? I'd like to continue taking everything apart, and freshen it up with new bushings, seals, etc as I put it back together. Anyone know a good turbo rebuild shop in the greater Seattle area?
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I found a local turbo parts distributor/rebuild shop that has a rebuild kit for this turbo. Is $100 a decent price for a turbo rebuild kit?
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That seems a bit high to me, Jake. Have you searched on the web? About $65 plus s&h sounds more like it. Of course, a bird in the hand is worth 1.5 in the bush... :wink:
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Have you tried turbo_city?
http://www.turbocity.com/default.php?cPath=15_20
No affiliation... Not sure which kit would work for you, but I see that the 300-300 kit lists some VW's...
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Yeah, their 300-200 (http://www.turbocity.com/product_info.php?cPath=15_20&products_id=166&osCsid=3e9f588c12eefcaa1d50525abb59c432) kit shows as fitting (amongst others) "Volkswagen Golf, Jetta, Rabbit, Quantum '82-'85 1.6L Diesel".
Price? $52.36
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I'm working on taking one of these apart and this thread has been very helpful.
I called one guy and he said to mic the parts to make sure I get the right size bearings and stuff.
He said a generic kit doesn't always fit right. Not a one-size-fits-all kinda deal.
Majestic turbo or something like that.
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Thanks for the lead on turbo city guys. I have been looking on EBay recently for K24 rebuild kits but have not been able to find any.
Turbo city offers a rebuild kit for all K24/K26 turbos at $105:
(http://www.turbocity.com/images/300-600.jpg)
Those other turbo city kits for mid-80's VW turbo-diesel application are for Garrett turbos. I called Turbo City and found that their kit are not genuine parts, but are pieced together from various suppliers. The genuine KKK rebuild kit is looking like a better deal.
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I got the turbine wheel out yesterday...
Here is the thrust bearing exposed. It is resting on two dowel pins in the center section:
(http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid182/p9366e2b4e93e4e0d3e339913858027ab/f2caec90.jpg)
This shot shows the back of the throwout bearing and the oil supply passage in the center section. You can see the channel machined into the back of the thrust bearing, (shaped like a "C"), which routes oil from the center section supply hole to the thrust bearing surfaces through two tiny oil galleys that are drilled in the thrust bearing:
(http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid182/pbe808c03f8fbdc647f7477dfefe4ac8e/f2caebd1.jpg)
To get the turbine wheel/shaft out from here you just have to pound it out squarely on the end of the shaft, to overcome the tension from the piston-ring type oil seal which is holding it in. The seals on both turbine and compressor side are two little piston rings with their gaps offset 180 degrees. Here is how coked-up mine looked just after it came out. There are some really hard, nasty carbon deposits around the turbine seal:
(http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid182/p8c4cd9eef05b41bd68ce2aca352e59bb/f2caeb66.jpg)
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Check this out
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/KKK-K03-rebuild-kit-VW-Golf-Audi-a4-jetta-turbo-1-8_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33742QQitemZ7992189165QQrdZ1
this person has an ebay store that sells rebuild kits for K14 and K24 :)
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Thanks, I sent them an e-mail asking about rebuild kit for my turbo.
I also found this place, which looks promising...
http://www.turboparts.info/pages/634268/index.htm
They sell kits as well as individual parts for many turbos including KKKs, and their prices look pretty good.
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Hey Jake,
I'm new to TD's and it looks like I need a rebuild on my 1.9 TD turbo. It looks exactly like yours from the pics. Except I'm missing that round orange rubber gasket on the intake side. That could be why I'm consuming so much oil.
I think my turbo performance is healthy aside from the abnormal oil use and excess smoke. Is it possible to buy just the orange gasket? or should I attempt a rebuild. Do you have an FSM or turbo manual for the rebuild?
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Jake nice work again well documented..as always. I would like to redone one of my kkk's.. In fact i am in the middle of swapping a kkk 24 from a 1.6 TD into a '98 jetta tdi ..with the turbo on top of the exhaust manifold like a 1.6L TD..i had to modify the intake with a grinder but its bolted in now..just have to make up the oil drains and feed and the air hookups.. The stock Tdi turbo is SO SMALL !!! it is puny and it had a lot of in and out play on the turbo shaft..i was a little worried as up and down is okk but in and out isn't as cool.... I hope the kkk is the good swap choice as it was great in my 1.6 TD 35 psi no problem..etc of course its not gonna see that that ..now but it should last longer.. the small kkk in the tdi had no o ring at all but a shellac like paste gasket seal..i was not too impressed with that so i hope to see how it works out now.... i can post pics if you guys would like to see.. i hope it runs good..im making a custom down pipe too..it has a chip and will get a set of kerma nozzles the power plus 216's etc...gauges of course also..
thanks
Deo
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I hope the kkk is the good swap choice
You'll love it. There's a local 1998 Jetta TDI that put down 152whp on a dyno with that setup including the other mods you're getting. I went for a ride two days ago and it accelerated a lot like one of my friend's stock MK3 VR6. Exhaust smoke wasn't that bad, almost non-existent above 3,000 RPM. The peak boost was between 18 to 22 PSI.
He has an Upsolute Stage III TDI chip and wants to upgrade it to a custom chip.
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cool if it runs well like that ..i will do my wifes '96 passat up also..heck this is another thread almost ha..
Thanks
Deo
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Hey guys, I went to look at turbo rebuild kits the other day at the local turbo shop that also happens to be a borg-warner/3k parts distributor. The K24 kit he pulled out didn't fit the VW 1.6lTD KKK turbo, as the shaft size was too small. Thrust bearings and journal bushings were different. So he pulled out a K26 kit (part number K53267110001). It almost fit perfectly, every piece. The journal nushings and the thrust bearing and the piston rings all fit. The only thing that didn't match was the orange compressor o-ring. The K26 kit compressor o-ring was bigger than the one on the VW turbo. So if you guys are shopping for rebuild kits for your 1.6lTD KKK turbos, keep in mind that our turbos have K26+ bearing sizes (the ID of the journal bearings on our turbos is roughly 10mm). I don't have any manual for rebuilding this turbo, all the VW literature seems to just say "if there is a problem, replace the turbo". But I am taking notes as I disassemble and writing down things like the torque of the compressor nut, etc.
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Check it out... A blow-up parts diagram with parts numbers for the 1.6lTD Garrett TA0304B is available on-line here (http://www.turbomaster.info/despieces_garrett/465384-0002.php) and specs on the compressors are available here (http://www.turbomaster.info/eng/applications/compressor.php), and turbine wheels here (http://www.turbomaster.info/eng/applications/turbine.php). Referencing the appropriate part numbers to these tables, and using the measurements I took directly from the guts of the 1.6lTD KKK turbo, we can compare these turbos more closely...
garrett compressor:
blades: 6
wheel diameter: 60.00mm
inducer bore: 35.40mm
tip height: 3.00mm
kkk compressor:
blades: 6 major, 6 minor (12 total)
wheel diameter: 60.5mm
inducer bore: 37.5mm
tip height: 4mm
findings: nearly identical compressor wheel OD means pressure ratio capability of the two are about equal. However, ~6% larger inducer bore of the KKK means it can flow a bit more air. There is also a very significantly greater tip height with the KKK turbo (33% greater on the KKK).
garrett turbine:
blades: 11
wheel diameter: 59.00 mm
exducer bore diameter: 49.00mm
kkk turbine:
blades: 12
wheel diameter: 59mm
exducer bore diameter: 49.5mm
findings: except for one additional blade on the kkk turbine, the turbine sections have nearly identical specs.
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How do I calculate the AR and trim from these figures (tried a search in google already)
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The trim of the compressor and turbine wheels can be calculated from the major and minor wheel diameters using this formula:
trim = (minor_diameter ^2 / major_diameter^2) x 100
I'd love to measure the A/R of the K24 turbine housing, but to do so requires the accurate measurement of the cross-sectional area of the turbine housing and also of the radius to the "centroid" of the area. I don't know how to do these measurements... got any ideas?
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Here is a pic of the turbine housing where it has numbers on it:
(http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid181/pb805e23a34246feafc1b9f39d26b4c2b/f2df3b59.jpg)
Best I can make sense of these numbers is:
"NI CR 202" - the alloy of the metal in the casting. Nickel - Chromium 202, an austenitic grade stainless steel.
"/03 05 83" - looks a lot like a build date. 1983 Jibes.
"5324 101 7097 [1?]" The 5324... number sequence of 11 digits indicates a KKK part number. The 1 at the end might be a casting mistake.
"[1 ...] 39" - unidentified number. Could the "39" be the A/R ratio of the turbine housing - .39? That would be right in the ballpark of what we might expect.
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I'll check my K24 when I take it off to take a look at the leaky oilretour for my numbers (the compressorhouse is '84 but that came from another K24)
KKK is not very communicative about their specs, I've asked a turbo refurbisher about the specs but they didn't have any info about the OEM turbos
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I leakdown tested my wastegate:
(http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid189/p7b7fb759631b125abd55218e51ec7556/f20a459f.jpg)
I found a steel plate that I drilled and tapped for an air fitting and bolted it sealed to the turbine inlet.
Here's how I sealed the turine inlet area. I jammed a couple thick rubber wedge-shaped pieces deep into it and sealed the cracks with grease. The only route left for pressurized air to go was to to the wastegate valve, though the side port.
(http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid189/p64525bb84b562ec8af00efbdd4203799/f20a46e2.jpg)
Results: Sure enough, the wastegate valve was leaky. At 30psi pressure, it only held 25.5 psi (so it had a 15% leakdown.) For engine cylinder head valve standard, that would be a very poor valve seal. But I am not sure about what is expected for wastegate standards. What do you guys think? Would that much wastegate leakage cause a noticeably added lag in turbo spool-up?
To make sure all the leakage was through the wastegate valve, after the test I remove the wastegate, sealed it's valve, re-assembled, and re-tested. It had 0% leakdown (held the full 30psi.)
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I'm not surprised that the wastegate valve is leaking, Jake. They are nothing but a poppet valve, but without the good engineering that goes into a proper exhaust valve. I suggest getting some valve grinding paste and lapping the valve seat. I'll bet it seals right up! :D
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The valve itself has minimal wear on its sealing surface, and looks like a high quality grade of hardened, stainless material. But the valve seat is a different story. It's just machined right into the turbine housing, a lower quality cast material, and not as corrosion resistant. As a result there are high and low spots where rust / voids / putting has occured. This is probably what is letting the air slip past. I tried cleaning it up with scotchbrite, but obviously it didn't work. I'll probably go ahead and try the valve lapping compound.
I'm guessing this problem is common among 25 year old turbos with internal wastegates that lack hardened valve seat inserts. I'll bet an aftermarket type external wastegate with a hardened valve seat insert would hold up better.
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I have to offer to our GTD board members a very complete, high quality turbo rebuild kit for this K24 turbo, including a 360 degree thrust bearing upgrade, new turbine housing bolts, hard to find correctly fitting o-rings, oversized or standard journal bearings, etc. I can get rebuild parts for pretty much any other turbo make or model as well.
Pricing will be very reasonable. IM me if you're interested.
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Thanks for the info, and also an update: I am having good results with restoring my wastegate valve seal! ( I will be including detailed instructions with my K24 turbocharger rebuild kit. :) )
original:
(http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid190/p77c8189c2e2b5fd714a929725d2a99e9/f1e70246.jpg)
restored:
(http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid190/pe6a231ee73be6858ac0013fe20dc415f/f1e728a4.jpg)
FYI: 4corners never even replied to my e-mail (sounds like it figures!)
I promise those who go with my turbo rebuild kits will not be disappointed... with my price, service or quality!
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That looks a lot better :)
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Malone wanted to see pics of the kkk 24 on 98 tdi i did...going to be swapping this into my new setup 95 glx wagon..and gonna get to try out one of jakes turbo kits some time in the near future.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/therabbittree/kkk2498tdi3.jpg)
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/therabbittree/kkk2498tdi2.jpg)
Thanks
Deo
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Very sharp looking, Deo!
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thanks jake!
I didn't want to mess too much with your thread. Yeah with the power plus .216 nozzles and the upsolute chip it spools and hits 25 plus psi, fast but then it freaks the stock n75 valve and computer out. So I just am going to pull this setup off my sisters and put stock back on for her. But of course I'm going to use this setup on my own engine hehehe and I'll figure out how to control the boost different way. It pulls strong and sounds nice. The intake was a stock A3 tdi intake cut egr off and a lot of grinding to allow compressor to fit.
Thanks
Deo
\x/ hillfolk!
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What is the LMM still doing in the rightside corner?
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what is a LMM ??
thanks
deo
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LMM= Luft Masse Meter.. thing that measures the mass of air that is flowing thru the pipe.
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We call that a Mass Airflow Sensor or sometimes MAF... I think there are technically different names for the hot wire and the flapper door style.
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Flapperdoorstyle is old K/KE-jetronic injection...
LMM is the thing, MAF is what it reads.
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oh yeah i always called that a maf...anyhow it wason my sister ride a electronic 98 tdi ..but soon to be on a 95 passat glx electronic also so all the electronic gizmos like the mfa and cruise work etc..my mechanical stuff is on a different car.
thanks
deo
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Same here.. TDI for daily driving, mech IDI for the fun :lol:
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I think I've finally figured out the A/R ratio for this turbo, and it's .3. This comes from the KKK catalog. I also heard that the A/R for KKK turbos are sometimes cast inside the turbine inlet. Well I took a look at mine, and sure enough, was able to locate a "3" right there!
(http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid192/p7cc9715fda435d871d971e760087c958/f1b63708.jpg)
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Here is a comparison of my Dieselicious 360 degree thrust bearing upgrade versus the stock 1.6lTD K24 thrust bearing:
(http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid192/pf9b9fe99c12acafe43aeb27cdc8ced58/f1b638f2.jpg)
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is it predictable what temperature that steel can handle?
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16V-Sauger - are you talking about Nickel - Chromium 202 (http://www.vwdiesel.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=1841&start=25), the turbine housing material? It seems like someone should be able to find out the temperature limit of it, but I'd still wonder if something else in the combustion chamber or high-temperature exhaust stream might melt or fail first! :o
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the problem is, i would like to use one of my T3 on a 2L 16VT gasoline :twisted:
i'm only driving that car ~3000miles/year. so if one would work for a year i could use that 3 turbos for around 3 years :lol:
i was told that in the past the turbos all came from one factory line, diesel and gasoline. would make sense, causing less costs. so older diesel turbos should work on gassers.
can anyone confirm that?
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They might come from the same line, but unlikely the turbos are the same between petrol and diesel, far too many differences, exhaust gas flow/temps, rpm band etc. Could be wrong (newbie here!)
is it predictable what temperature that steel can handle?
Temp lints of these high-temp type steels are defined by a Creep Vs Temp plot. They don't just give up, but their working range is defined by how much creep under stress can be allowed (creep is stretch or strain under load) Typically Ni-Cr-Fe alloys used for stressed components might work in the range 650-750C, but here the component is not stressed so much as having to retain dimensional tolerances at high temps, which variations on these alloys can be designed for.
That bearing seal though, doesn't look like steel, looks like phospor-bronze to me.
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In the first page, it is said:
This will raise boost by simply not allowing the wastegate to open all the way and will send EGT's way up.I would leave that ajustment alone Or put a bigger spring in the wastegate.So for anyone else looking to raise boost on the k14,k24 the best way is to just put a bleed in the line or use a boost controller, just leave the screw alone!
I have a k14 turbo on my 1994 jetta 1.9TD, it looks like this turbo:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v319/bareil76/turbo.jpg)
I played with the rod that is in a red circle on the picture above. I screwed it farther and the got the boost to 12psi(was 9 before).
According to what have been said, it will raise the EGT!!! Could someone explain it to me because I don't really understand. Usually, when we want to raise the boost, we want the wastegate to stay close at greater psi.
What is the difference with not allowing the wastegate to open all the way(playing with the screw) and a boost bleed??????
Thank you!
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When the wastegate can't open enough to precisely regulate the boost pressure where it cracks open at, it will allow the boost pressure to "creep" upwards an additional amount after the wastegate has already cracked open, which is generally not a preferred scenario. Compared to a wastegate that precisely regulates an equivalent peak boost pressure, the boost creeping setup would have weakened horsepower and torque in the middle RPM area (especially right above where the wastegate cracks open), which is generally where you would otherwise find peak torque on a wastegated turbodiesel. On a well-regulated turbo-diesel setup, the RPM area right after the wastegate opens is also generally where you'll find peak operating efficiency, and is generally the most useful powerband area in most street driven applications.
I generally agree with Andy2's quote above, that the KKK internal wastegate adjutment screw is not a very safe or desireable way of increasing boost by anything more than a very modest adjustment. That is, unless you are trying to keep the wastegate completely shut at all times, in which case this can be easily accomplished by simply turning that screw all the way in.
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(http://x2.putfile.com/6/17401533023.jpg) (http://www.putfile.com)
Bringing this thread back from the dead.
I bought one of Jakes kits long ago (he shipped it fast!)
Finally I am getting roundtoit.
So I have it apart as shown, got the bearing out of the compressor side. Down in the hole is a circlip. Does it have to come out before I pound the shaft through? I can't really see what it does in there. A couple exploratory taps left me thinking there is still something holding it in.
BTW, does anyone have a couple of the C shaped clips that the bolts holding the compressor housing goes through? Part #2 here: http://www.turbomaster.info/mascara_dibujo2.php?modelo=TAO3&nombre=&marca=
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Never "pound" the turbine shaft. It should come out at this point. The piston ring seal is either hung up on slight groove in the bearing housing or the bearing is "coked" up and stuck to the shaft. If its the piston ring, gently wiggling the shaft in an orbit within the housing will generally get it free. If the bearing is coked up, some carb cleaner and time might help it free up.
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Hey Lee - glad to hear you are making progress with the kit install.
For where you are in the process, I would advise setting up a piece of wood onto a hard floor, and then holding the bearing housing in both hands with the shaft pointing straight down, moving the assembly straight down into the wood, tapping the end of the shaft onto the wood. The inertia will help jolt the turbine sealing ring free.
For additional protection of the shaft end, it is not a bad idea to thread the compressor nut on there flush with the end of the shaft so it spreads the load from the impact. Be sure to do the tapping with the shaft pointed straight down and moving the assembly straight down, do not tap sideways on the shaft. It should knock right out.
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Thanks for the help guys, got it out.
A 2 day soaking in carb cleaner helped break up the crud and made things considerably looser. It still needed a couple of light taps to get it out. (Did I say pound!? Must be the redneck in me - fix it with a BFH, then read the instructions!)
For this turbo the carb cleaner soaking was an important step... before that I had wacked it a couple times with a block of wood and it wasnt going anywhere, after soaking, 2 light taps and out it came.
Anyhow, here is the culprit that was holdin it in, wear groove at arrow:
(click for bigger picture)
(http://f5.putfile.com/6/17701563148-thumb.jpg) (http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=6/17701563148.jpg&s=f5)
And there was this solid buildup of carbon outboard of the bearing that was contributing to the 'zero play' feel before I soaked it, making me think that I had missed some fastener. There was enough chunks to convince me it went all the way around:
(http://f5.putfile.com/6/17702010040-thumb.jpg) (http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=6/17702010040.jpg&s=f5)
And finally, a question. Is that just carbon in the groove? (red arrow) Is there supposed to be something in there?
(http://f5.putfile.com/6/17702013954-thumb.jpg) (http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=6/17702013954.jpg&s=f5)
(white residue = non abrasive silver polish, took the carbon off axle quite nicely)
Getting this apart has been kinda fun. Like most fancy stuff, its a lot less imposing once you get the parts all spread out. We'll see how it goes back together and if it works.
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And finally, a question. Is that just carbon in the groove? (red arrow) Is there supposed to be something in there?
(http://f5.putfile.com/6/17702013954-thumb.jpg) (http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=6/17702013954.jpg&s=f5).
I'm at the same point in my rebuild, I cleaned out that groove (looked just like yours), that carbon is tough! Chuck it in a drill press (slow speed and dont tighten too much) and lightly run a scotchbright pad up and down the shaft, that does an excellent job of getting the crud off and breaking the glaze and leaves a nice cross hatch like you do for cylinder walls. Rebuilding a turbo is fun, alot easier then I thought. Now I can cross 'turbo' off the list of components I am afraid to mess with :wink:
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Do you still sell the kits? I will need one around Jan or or so.
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Yep - that is old, crusty, really hard carbon in there. It's designed with that lip (which isn't part of the sealing surface)... to try and "fling" the oil off the rotating shaft.
I would be very careful chucking the shaft into a drill, not to mar the shaft surface. But, scotch brite does do a good job of cleaning it up. You can get the big chunks off by "chipping" away with a razor blade (be very careful not to cut yourself!)
Using an old sealing ring (they snap in half) also works well as a ring groove scraping tool.
Odwyer: Yes I still sell the kits, and I currently have some of the Dieselicious 1.KKK 6lTD K24 kits in stock. IM or e-mail me when you're ready to go, and I'll send you ordering instructions.
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got the rebuild done, there was nothing to it. It was no more difficult then doing rear brakes. Took like 3 hours including cleaning and painting. I should have taken a 'before' pic, it was nasty! My turbo is as good as new for under $100 (rebuild kit + paint/carb cleaner). Thanks again fspGTD for an affordable kit. For those of you thinking of rebuilding your turbo, its pretty strait forward and can be done in an afternoon, just becareful for broken housing bolts...
(http://bbs.off-road.com/ubbthreads/download.php?Number=1529841)
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Since you completely took apart the KK K24, you may be able to have a solution for a problem I have:
I'm putting a AAZ into a VW T3 Transporter but I have some clearance problems with a enginesupport and the turbo... I need 2-3cm extra space under it, thats where the wastegate is.
In the previous car where the engine with that turbo was running I completely closed the wastegate to get max boost, so I don't really need the wastegate assembly to be on the turbo.
Now the question is, do you think it is possible to close the hole of the wastegate somehow?
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I ended up with 7, yes all 7 bolts in the turbine housing broken! Actually I cut the heads off the allen bolts for the wastegate but the housing/downpipe studs snapped. :roll:
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Since you completely took apart the KK K24, you may be able to have a solution for a problem I have:
I'm putting a AAZ into a VW T3 Transporter but I have some clearance problems with a enginesupport and the turbo... I need 2-3cm extra space under it, thats where the wastegate is.
In the previous car where the engine with that turbo was running I completely closed the wastegate to get max boost, so I don't really need the wastegate assembly to be on the turbo.
Now the question is, do you think it is possible to close the hole of the wastegate somehow?
Use the exhasut manifold from a 1.6TD "JX" engine and you won't have to.
You can also buy an exhaust from the exhaust shop rather than having to make one.
Use the pump levers from a 1.6D (CS) or 1.7D (KY) engine or at a push use the JX ones and you will only have to drill and plate the engine lid for clearance, if you leave the AAZ levers in place you will have to box the engine lid for clearance, and the throttle cable will be stretched.
I do thewse conversions quite often, if you need help just PM me.
8)