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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: Smokey Eddy on February 01, 2009, 11:17:33 pm
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I looked on the air care site and this is all it said
http://www.aircare.ca/inspinfo-stds-d147.php?MY=1990&V=P&F=D
Does that mean i don't need a cat or muffler ... OR is our "catalytic converter" not actually a cat and it's just a resonator. Because i didn't know that you could have cats on diesels....?
This is an obscure question for the forum i know and i apologize but it will determine what i have to do with my exhaust.
stupid emission control. I burn 1/2 as much fuel as a gasser. that should be emission control damn well enough!
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in bc it is great because if you have to get "air care" testing it don't matter if you have a cat or resonator just as long as it passes the test....here in ontario you need it all...me i just gutted my cat converter so its just for show...because if the MTO seen i dident have a cat....the plates would be pulled...dam ontario..most strict place for Saftey and emmision inspections....
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in bc it is great because if you have to get "air care" testing it don't matter if you have a cat or resonator just as long as it passes the test....here in ontario you need it all...me i just gutted my cat converter so its just for show...because if the MTO seen i dident have a cat....the plates would be pulled...dam ontario..most strict place for Saftey and emmision inspections....
Unless your cars over 20. Boo yah lol pass the safety and its free game from there! LOL but yeah for cars under 20 Bc seems ideal :P
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Depends where in Ontario you live. Up in Thunder Bay (NW Ontario), we have no emissions testing at all. Get your car safetied and drive it till the wheels fall off! :P
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I think it really depends on the year of the car. According to the AirCare web site it looks like any car newer than 1988 needs to have a cat no matter what. However everything else mentioned in the same documentation is all talking about gas cars, not diesel.
Looks kind of ambiguous to me. I want to do my exhaust but I'm worried about getting through AirCare without a cat... But if some A3 people out there have been through without one I'd like to hear about it!
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dang it! conflicting posts!
Do you or do you not need a cat?
I think im just going to try without ANYTHING just a straight pipe. Turn the fuel screw ALL the way out. put the boost pin where it gives the least fueling under boost and see how that goes.
If they drove it "hard" the way it is right now i THINK the boostlines would blow off again... but they never floor it right?
I wonder how often they break peoples cars driving them.
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I HAVE taken cars without a cat through AirCare before, and had it noted on my test, but those were all pre-1988.
From the AirCare web site:
Is my vehicle required to have a catalytic converter?
If your vehicle was manufactured with a catalytic converter, it means it was a necessary component for the vehicle to comply with the new vehicle standards for that model year. Catalytic converters have been used on some vehicles since the mid-1970s. By 1988, all light-duty vehicles manufactured for sale in Canada were equipped with three-way catalytic converters (TWC).
To find out whether your vehicle was originally equipped with a catalytic converter you should check with the vehicle manufacturer.
You may be able to determine whether your vehicle was originally equipped with a catalytic converter by referring to the underhood emissions label. On the underhood emissions label, the acronyms OC, ORC, and TWC all refer to types of catalytic converters. Some labels may say "CATALYST" in large type.
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A catalytic converter is necessary for all 1988 and newer vehicles to pass an AirCare inspection. Older vehicles may be able to pass inspection without a catalytic converter.
A good question would be "Did Diesel VW's in 1988 and newer all come stock with catalytic converters in Canada?" Anyone out there with a Canadian original '88 - '92 want to chime in on that?
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Depends where in Ontario you live. Up in Thunder Bay (NW Ontario), we have no emissions testing at all. Get your car safetied and drive it till the wheels fall off! :P
i wouldent say that......mto spot checks all last summer were testing emissions..
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I was under the impression that it was a resonator and had nothing to do with emission control...
I have the "cat" sitting in my garage right now but it doesn't look like a gasser cat and where in diesel's combustion equation does the presence of a cat continue combustion?
It works with a gasser because the exhaust can still sometimes be on fire but with our diesels i don't believe that EVER happens...
im sure im wrong, someone please educate me.
Catalytic converters continue the combustion of the fuel to remove certain hydrocarbons from the exhaust. I'm pretty sure that in the combustion of diesel said hydrocarbons aren't even present...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalytic_converter#Diesel_engines
I guess that's my answer :? but that thing in my garage just looks like a muffler on the inside...
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in bc it is great because if you have to get "air care" testing it don't matter if you have a cat or resonator just as long as it passes the test.
Wrongo. They do a visual inspection underneath the car with a mirror to check for a cat. If it's not there, even if you still pass the opacity test you fail automatically, assuming it came with a stock cat. Check the sticker under the hood, it'll say if it was stock.
I've even had them fail it on a VW Fox because they assumed the smallish round cat on it looks like a resonator. Took three visits, some ETKA printouts and a letter for a VW dealer to get it to pass.
They'll also fail you for a leaking gas cap seal, and as well if you turn the fuel screw down too much so that it can't accelerate fast enough on the rollers to meet their program.
That's why I put a swappable cat/test pipe setup on my Passat, 10 minutes under the car and I've got a cat, 10 minutes after and I don't.
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Can someone please answer me this "WHY DO YOU GO TO AIRCARE" I think the last time I went was the second year the aircare stations opened , That was the last time they saw any of my $ . Here is a little hint for ya. There are no aircare police that will come knockin on your door and force you to go........
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Can someone please answer me this "WHY DO YOU GO TO AIRCARE" I think the last time I went was the second year the aircare stations opened , That was the last time they saw any of my $ . Here is a little hint for ya. There are no aircare police that will come knockin on your door and force you to go........
Uh....
To maybe get insurance... license plates... you know that kind wish wash stuff that, i know, isn't REALLY nessisary. But i'd rather not drive with cardboard fake plates.
in BC the gov't has a monopoly on the auto insurance. It's called ICBC and it IS the anti-christ. And in the "Greater Vancouver Area" which streches all the way out to Abbotsford (for some reason?) it's required to pass air care before they will let you insure the car.
It's a total load of sh!t because you can just have 1 engine for all your cars that passes air car and then when you're through the booth swap your racing engine in it. It's a really stupid system that they additted was pointless, it's supposed to be removed in the next couple years.
In California, i heard a story of cops having some sort of scoops on their cruisers that would roughly read the emissions of the car in front of them and they could pull them over for emission suspicion and require them to go get tested again.
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Can someone please answer me this "WHY DO YOU GO TO AIRCARE"
Alright, I'm curious, how do you get around it if you live in the GVRD, aside from registering your vehicle out in Hope or somesuch?
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well the limit is 30% opacity and i passed air care a year ago with a 12.0% on a dismal engine.
in order to fail you would need to have like max fueling and a very small tail pipe. A big pipe really eff's their system because its an opacity check so the larger the area it's flowing through the less opaque it is.
I'm just going to make half of my exhaust, ram the old cat in there, add a tail pipe sloppily. Get the stupid piece of paper. Rip it out again and replace it with just straight pipe or my dual idea and get insurance.
THAT is how you pass air care. But if ICBC asks, you didn't hear it from me!
Edit: wait, does handedyourhat live in the GVRD?
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No that is not how you do it, and yes I live about 7 minutes from you Ed...so that would place me into the catagory that I must take my car to a Airscare station to have it tested to see if it meets their requirement so I am allowed to purchase insurance for my $300 VW "Ya right". You are very close to the answer when you stated about using a Hope address....keep guessin :lol: :lol: :lol:
D
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you insure it as a collector car?
I dunno man... you've stumped me... if you could please enlighten me it would be nice because then i could actually be driving it like by saturday... instead of f***ing around with stupid exhaust issues
I'm really pissed off right now with it because the DP bolts wont thread into the turbo because my buddy got weld in the flange holes
Edit: more ideas on how you get around it...
- you only insure 1 car and have all yours VW's the same colour and just transfer the documents to each car that you drive because you can only drive 1 of them at a time?
- drive a car older than a certain year
- uhhh get someone else who isn't in the GVRD to insure it and pay them?
- go to your insurance place and tell em "oh yeah i'll go get air care, it'll pass don't worry about it. Thanks for the insurance. im off to air care right now" (as if that would work...)
I am really really stumped. Do tell me, how do you get around it. And if you live so close we should meet up some time!!! Do you have a timing gauge&adapter :oops:
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Just try it without the cat It is worth the 23$ if you pass it's all good. The other trick is to show up with studded snows in season then they can't do the dyno because of WCB regs , studs might fly off & injure someone. so they will do a 1500 RPM static test & give you a pass. Just did it 2 weeks ago in my 92 Jetta. Good luck Dan
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yeah but the studded tires would cost me more than a new exhaust system anyways :P
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yeah but the studded tires would cost me more than a new exhaust system anyways :P
For a case of beer someone might loan you the studded tires for a few hours......
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Haha!
I know that if my engine was driven normally, like they do in the test, it won't smoke too much. With the turbo not bleeding ANY boost off it burns really clearly as soon as the turbo is spooled up. The only black smoke i've seen yet just zipping up and down my street was when i had the turbo disconnected. I'm still coming to see you Dave as soon as i get insurance!
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It's a shame you guys have to go through all that mess to get your cars to pass as down here we don't have any emision testing on deisels yet but if they do come up with it in Md. you can put historic tags on anything 20 or more years old and get around it that way if the time comes. But for the life of me I've ever even heard of a catalytic converter on a diesel period, the only thing emissionwise on diesels I ever heard of is these new particulate traps which are on the newer diesels down here. I've always been told and read that diesel will ruin a catalytic converter in no time at all. Did they actualy put something like that on your cars like that back then other than just the resonator :shock:
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I dunno man. Wiki mentions cats for diesels but i really doubt VW made theirs with them. I think diesel cats are, like you said, a new thing. Soot traps and what not.
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i think only the eco diesels had cats. i took my car to air care about 8 months a go i dont have a cat but i had a res and a muffler and i passed with a 9% on my n/a on my air care sheet there's a section that says cat and under mine it says n/a so i think you just need a muffler i need to take mine again soon and all i have is a 4inch cannon and no res its real loud but all see if i pass!
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I dunno man. Wiki mentions cats for diesels but i really doubt VW made theirs with them. I think diesel cats are, like you said, a new thing. Soot traps and what not.
The emission testing people couldn't make you put something on the car that wasn't on it from the factory could they as it was accepted into the country when it was new and met the standards then. It sounds to me like the people with the mirror are getting the resonator mixed up with a catalytic converter or something on those lines.
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I dunno man. Wiki mentions cats for diesels but i really doubt VW made theirs with them. I think diesel cats are, like you said, a new thing. Soot traps and what not.
MK3's have them for sure. They trap different things, and they clog up horribly over time restricting power. The new particulate filters are pre-cat as I understand it, but there's still a cat after them.
Some of the Aircare dodges like registering out of the GVRD and using collector plates work, but when you get in an accident your insurance is invalid. Collector plates don't allow you to go to and from work or put on an excessive amount of mileage, and there's some other restrictions as well. If you're in an accident you have to PROVE where you were going to ICBC before they pay out.
If you register under a false address or mis-declare where the vehicle spends most of it's time, it's fraud, and again ICBC will disallow your coverage.
I wind up with a lot of people in my office thinking that filing bankruptcy will get them out of their ICBC debt, but if it's fraud related or there's criminal charges involved, as there usually always is in an accident, then the debt won't even go away in bankruptcy. That messes you up for the rest of your life because it never, ever goes away until you pay it, and the interest keeps racking up on it.
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Jesus.
Yeah, insurance fraud is up there with like murder and stuff. I'd never do it ...
my ex-best-buddy had some sh!t 1989 civic dx that he and his parents loved (for some reason) and they claimed that his dad drove it 51% of the time (go figure). So they didn't have to pay the "n" driver rates. I later chipped his door with a bb gun from like 500 yard away (don't ask how it's a long story and it was an accident) and his parents made me fork out $300 FOR HIS car to have some cracked out "body shop" who was a friend of theirs (go figure again) to spray it with a can of spray paint. I was 17 at the time. I was choked that my budd wouldn't stand up for him self because he didn't care about the chip and it was after all his car. his parents were just douche bags to me about it for some reason. They're the type that think auto mechanics is such a fangled complicated industry that trying to understand what a dip stick is takes months of training and apprenticeship.
He later crashed it and ICBC gave him $1,000 for the new-er engine he had swapped in it and $0 for the body which i paid $300 for.
HOW icbc did NOT catch onto the "51%" thing beats me and just makes me so MAD that people get away with *** like that. THAT is why i really don't like ICBC.
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Jesus.
Yeah, insurance fraud is up there with like murder and stuff. I'd never do it ...
my ex-best-buddy had some sh!t 1989 civic dx that he and his parents loved (for some reason) and they claimed that his dad drove it 51% of the time (go figure). So they didn't have to pay the "n" driver rates. I later chipped his door with a bb gun from like 500 yard away (don't ask how it's a long story and it was an accident) and his parents made me fork out $300 FOR HIS car to have some cracked out "body shop" who was a friend of theirs (go figure again) to spray it with a can of spray paint. I was 17 at the time. I was choked that my budd wouldn't stand up for him self because he didn't care about the chip and it was after all his car. his parents were just douche bags to me about it for some reason. They're the type that think auto mechanics is such a fangled complicated industry that trying to understand what a dip stick is takes months of training and apprenticeship.
He later crashed it and ICBC gave him $1,000 for the new-er engine he had swapped in it and $0 for the body which i paid $300 for.
HOW icbc did NOT catch onto the "51%" thing beats me and just makes me so MAD that people get away with *** like that. THAT is why i really don't like ICBC.
Damn, that must have been one of those Daisy Red Ryder {MAGNUMS} at that range :lol: It sounds like they are pretty serious up there about insurance issues and such.
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It's a pellet/bb. And i love it. It's basically a .22 but ... you know :lol:
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Well i got air care today and passed but with a way higher (worse) reading than last time... even though it runs so much better, higher compression and what not. Air care is a joke.
ANYWAYS I found out some good info for those whom this applies to.
Under "catalytic converter presence" I got an "N/A" so .. it didn't have to be there after all. niether does the muffler.
damn. Anyways, just some warning for those about to undertake this hardship that IS air care :roll:
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oh yeah, i got an 18.6 for the "reading" and last time i got a 12.0.
and according to their thing it uses 7.1L/100km ... which is like ... what's that... just doing the math in my head here 33.1288144 MPG. That's not very good :( ... she needs breaking in! and boost pressure. That stupid fitting for the hose to my LDA and gauge wont stay in the hose. Gotta throw that intercooler on there and solve that...
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Yo, Ed-Mon.
Wicked news that you passed air-"B.S"-care.. lol Oh yeah we all can do l/100km conversions in our heads and get 7 decimal answers as well :P
ANYWAYS I found out some good info for those whom this applies to.
Under "catalytic converter presence" I got an "N/A" so .. it didn't have to be there after all. niether does the muffler.
You tellin me after all that you didn't even need any of it!? omfg.. lol kill them, thats all there is left to do. Hey i just thought of something... when i put the 91 n/a i have in to my 84... does the engine still have to be tested? :shock: I'm not even gonna notify them im changin it to diesel.. they'll probably kill me with some sort of "government payment" lol
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well i'd love to see what happens on their equipment when they try and run an emmisions diagnostic and get none of the gasses they were expecting except CO2 and lots of it.
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well i'd love to see what happens on their equipment when they try and run an emmisions diagnostic and get none of the gasses they were expecting except CO2 and lots of it.
Well if i don't tell them i have switched it over to diesel, then they will never know right? Being over 20 once you certify it in your name it never has to be certified or tested again until it changes ownership. :D So hopefully, i just won't notify them of my engine swap.... lmao
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that sounds like a plan to me!
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Well i got air care today and passed but with a way higher (worse) reading than last time... even though it runs so much better, higher compression and what not. Air care is a joke.
ANYWAYS I found out some good info for those whom this applies to.
Under "catalytic converter presence" I got an "N/A" so .. it didn't have to be there after all. niether does the muffler.
damn. Anyways, just some warning for those about to undertake this hardship that IS air care :roll:
Hey, what year is your car?