VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.
Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: MouseGTD on January 21, 2009, 01:55:44 pm
-
pro's? cons? problems with doing it?
i've seen a 1.4d seat engine with a G40 charger on it in a mk3 polo on the net before but the post was in German so i had no way of finding out any thing about it. i know there was a mazda diesel with a super charger on from the factory, but thats all i've heard of. is there a reason no one puts chargers on diesels? surely it would make a diesel more drivable with instant power through out the rev range?
-
Biggest down side, you burn about 20% more fuel to creat the HP required to pump the air...
With turbocharging, you get this HP for almost free from the wasted energy in the exhaust, so that 20% is an increase in HP w/o paying much for it.
-
a supercharger will give you boost right off the line without lag like a turbo, but as said before, the supercharger takes power to spin, which makes your MPG go down.
I am currently working on a twincharged setup with a K24 blowing into a G60 supercharger.
-
a supercharger will give you boost right off the line without lag like a turbo, but as said before, the supercharger takes power to spin, which makes your MPG go down.
I am currently working on a twincharged setup with a K24 blowing into a G60 supercharger.
thats gonna be nuts :twisted: how much boost is expected out of that setup
-
well 12 or so PSI from the G60, but when the turbo kicks in the supercharger will compress the compressed air further(like a compound turbo setup) and the turbo will probably be pushing 20-25PSI before the supercharger, so with both together who knows?
lets just say lots!
-
Please don't use a G-Lader. :(
That would be taking the most reliable VW engine ever built and putting the most unreliable supercharger in the world on it.
-
the G60 is reliable enough, as long as you keep in good repair.
the scroll charger(G-Lader) is very efficient and is capable of lots of boost for its power draw.
that and I found one for $100 that should be repairable, and will know as soon as it arrives in the mail.
I have every intention of keeping the charger in good repair and will have a very large intercooler between the turbo and the supercharger to keep it from being damaged by the heat generated by the turbo.
-
my old projekt , vento´s aaz motor with eaton M45 and holset/switzer hyprid turbo
http://www.ffp.fi/bb/viewtopic.php?t=87801
max boost road use is 2.2 bar and that boost wheelpower is 220 hp,2.6bar boost give 200KW wheel power ( max boost what i try is 2.8bar) :twisted:
-
Translation not complete, but at least you can get an idea:
http://translate.google.com/translate?prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ffp.fi%2Fbb%2Fviewtopic.php%3Ft%3D87801&sl=fi&tl=en&history_state0=&swap=1
-
This is the most insane car that I've ever been in. Rolling start from 80km/h to 200km/h was insane. That was with about 2.6 bar boost. And the sounds of that thing, first the whine of the eaton and when the huge turbo kicked in at about 3500-4000 rpm (redline ~6500rpm) the whistle was so loud. :D I'll newer forget that ride.
-
the G60 is reliable enough, as long as you keep in good repair.
the scroll charger(G-Lader) is very efficient and is capable of lots of boost for its power draw.
that and I found one for $100 that should be repairable, and will know as soon as it arrives in the mail.
I have every intention of keeping the charger in good repair and will have a very large intercooler between the turbo and the supercharger to keep it from being damaged by the heat generated by the turbo.
I have a friend who autocrossed a G60 Scirocco. Had them profesionaly rebuilt, and he went thru them faster than brake pads. he had zero problems after switching to a Lysholm. Please reconcider, your bank account and sanity will thank you.
-
it seems that the hatred of the g60 i sonly here in the states, there are lots of guys in europe running them and loving it!
just because a shop does your work in no way means that it is done right(not to bash any shops here ) the only way to know it is right for sure is to do it yourself, and that way you have a real understanding of how everything works which is a big help in tuning.
I will rebuild the charger myself and make my own decisions about reliability.
-
Now THAT was cool!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-
zukgod 1 : did you mean that my car ( vento ) ..
Now i build same car whit two turbos.I hope break 300hp limits this motor.
http://s434.photobucket.com/albums/qq68/Aki-76/pakosarjan%20sovittelua/
-
Aki, your car is definitely very cool, it is actually the reason I decided to try this.
I saw reference to your motor in the Jetta 200 project thread and decided to try it myself, but with some tips from the big detroit two stroke diesels I work with in the summer(compounding setup-turbo into supercharger with no bypass)
good luck on 300HP!
-
Sure would be interesting to rework a VW diesel to be 2 stroke !! The guys putting a mazda rotary in aircraft punch 2" holes in the rotor housing and TIG weld a S.S. tube for what they call "P port". They easily get 300 hp out of an 2.6L twin rotor without turbo or blowers.
http://rotaryeng.net/
-
rotary motors are sweet, I almost got a 13B to put into my beetle based buggy, but a buddy ended up with it and put it into a triumph spitfire, crazy fast!
the two stroke diesels have a intake port in the cylinder wall and exhaust valves in the head, I suppose one could retrofit a four stroke to be two stroke, lots of work, but could be fun.
-
rotary motors are sweet, I almost got a 13B to put into my beetle based buggy, but a buddy ended up with it and put it into a triumph spitfire, crazy fast!
the two stroke diesels have a intake port in the cylinder wall and exhaust valves in the head, I suppose one could retrofit a four stroke to be two stroke, lots of work, but could be fun.
Yeah, Mazda calls them a 1.3L engine...
The side ports in the diesel would be the same engineering challenge as the side ports they are putting in the rotary. They have not had one fail yet and aircraft engines run at 100% hp for 5 minutes and them 75% - 100% the rest of the time. Unless you are in Germany, or don't care about speed limits, we never abuse our engines like that.
Yes, a custom cam shaft would be needed with double lobes for all valves unless you wanted to change the cam belt to gear set - the cam puts quite a load on the belt at 2:1, I would not trust 1:1 for the cam on a belt.
(http://www.rotaryeng.net/in-mill-boring-head.jpg)
(http://www.rotaryeng.net/inside-view2.jpg)
(http://rotaryeng.net/dug-out-txt.JPG)
-
honestly I think the biggest challenge of the two stroke design(damn you, now I want to build one!) would be the injection, it would need to inject into two cylinders at a time every 180* of crank rotation.
maybe a injection pump from a large two cylinder industrial motor could be used and just tee the injection lines?
the hardest part of the intake ports would be finding a location on the block that you could cut through and not interfere with the water jacket or oiling system, what does the back of the block look like, there are no accessories there.
-
honestly I think the biggest challenge of the two stroke design(damn you, now I want to build one!) would be the injection, it would need to inject into two cylinders at a time every 180* of crank rotation.
maybe a injection pump from a large two cylinder industrial motor could be used and just tee the injection lines?
the hardest part of the intake ports would be finding a location on the block that you could cut through and not interfere with the water jacket or oiling system, what does the back of the block look like, there are no accessories there.
_big grim_ - ME TOO !!!
Injection would be real easy with our pump, but with a 1:1 drive not 2:1. Some of the small diesels out there use gear drive... no worries about breaking a belt then. ;-)
Another approach would be to slap the common rail setup all the new diesels are using. You'd probably want to use the TDI block and head, though.
On the ports, that is the easiest - like the rotary P-port, punch through the side including the water jacket. Tig weld inside the bore, and seal the outside with either TIG welding or JB-weld like many have done. Yes, I think the back of the block is ideal for this.
-
rotary motors are sweet, I almost got a 13B to put into my beetle based buggy, but a buddy ended up with it and put it into a triumph spitfire, crazy fast!
the two stroke diesels have a intake port in the cylinder wall and exhaust valves in the head, I suppose one could retrofit a four stroke to be two stroke, lots of work, but could be fun.
Need to do some flow dynamics too, to get proper scavenging. TDI head on an AAZ block would be a better candidate for this than an IDI head, since your volumetric efficiency is likely to go down you would need the decreased surface area of the DI design.
But you would definitely have a better breathing exhaust!
-
there is another issue, two stroke diesels cover the intake port with the piston skirt when at TDC to keep boost out of the block, with our fairly long stroke and short piston, I'm not sure if it would.
I think a chain drive would be easier than making a gear drive for the cam and the pump.
-
there is another issue, two stroke diesels cover the intake port with the piston skirt when at TDC to keep boost out of the block, with our fairly long stroke and short piston, I'm not sure if it would.
I think a chain drive would be easier than making a gear drive for the cam and the pump.
2 stroke gassers charge the crank case. Maybe this would not be a problem for us if we are not looking for big boost.
-
yes, but two stroke gassers don't have a separate oiling system, and their seals are built for it, if we pressurized our crankcase we would loose lots of oil past all of the shaft seals.
-
rotary engines are 4 stroke. its just that a rotary goes through a 4 phases in one revolution.
its efficient design of only 3 rotating parts, and 4 phases per one revolution is also what makes the rotarys need lot of fuel......
i miss my RX7........ :(
the purpose of the peripheral port is oviously to get even more air in, but it replaces the side ports.....
its like taking your stock haed and doing a complete race job...port/polish and big ass cam.....