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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: veeman on July 29, 2005, 12:35:21 pm
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I finally got some pictures downloaded from the camera, so I figured I'd post a couple of the progress on the TD swap into my 81 Caddy.
History: I traded for the Caddy back in March and got it practically for free since it had a damaged 1.6 NA in it. To get the thing mobile, I promptly stuck a working 1.5 NA in it that a friend supplied to me. The 1.5 was ok once the runaway problem got solved, although it was more than a little underpowered.
Along with the Caddy deal, I received an A1 TD motor in pieces. The head was missing its cam saddle caps and it was basically in "unknown" condition. I investigated rebuilding that TD (and saw the prices) but then found a complete swap from someone who was pulling it from his rabbit in favor of a gas swap.
A deal was struck and I had the motor shipped to me. The motor was rebuilt by the PO and had come from a Quantum. The swap came with a five speed FF transmission, the TD radiator and all the hoses, accessories.
(http://www.hostdub.com/albums/veeman_album07/TD_arrival_3.jpg) (http://www.hostdub.com/veeman_album07:TD_arrival_3)
After reading fellow posters' threads on tuning their TD's for performance, I began thinking that I'd add some tricks to mine before doing the swap.
The first thing I did was pull the exhaust manifold off to drill /tap for an EGT gauge. I used the VDO kit that others recommended here with the short silver probe. I also wanted to ditch the stock cast iron downpipe and make a custom downpipe, but more on that later...
I drilled the manifold in the same location shown in past posts and then tapped it for the probe insert.
(http://www.hostdub.com/albums/veeman_album07/em_probe2.jpg) (http://www.hostdub.com/veeman_album07:em_probe2)
Here's approximately how the probe sits in the manifold...
(http://www.hostdub.com/albums/veeman_album07/em_probe1.jpg) (http://www.hostdub.com/veeman_album07:em_probe1)
Since I had the manifold off anyway, I inspected the stock Garrett turbo and unfortunately found some damage to the shaft and bearings. I took my spare turbo and the damaged one into a local diesel shop and they made one good one for me. It came back to me much spiffier than before..
(http://www.hostdub.com/albums/veeman_album07/td_turbo_1.jpg) (http://www.hostdub.com/veeman_album07:td_turbo_1)
I asked about doing a hybrid turbo with all my parts, but that shop didn't have the parts and didn't seem too keen on doing it.
(http://www.hostdub.com/albums/veeman_album07/td_turbo_2.jpg) (http://www.hostdub.com/veeman_album07:td_turbo_2)
So... the next step was pulling the 1.5 and swapping the TD in.
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Next step: pulling the old engine, swapping in the new one...
The 1.5 and the four speed transmission had to come out to make way for the TD, so one night last week, a few friends came over with a cooler and we got things started...
(http://www.hostdub.com/albums/veeman_album07/td_swap5.jpg) (http://www.hostdub.com/veeman_album07:td_swap5)
Yanking off the old dinky exhaust. We had to chop off the tailpipe to get the whole exhaust to pop out from under the truck...
(http://www.hostdub.com/albums/veeman_album07/td_swap6.jpg) (http://www.hostdub.com/veeman_album07:td_swap6)
The whole motor / trans dropped out in no time. I love the fact that there were a total of about 7-8 wires that make the whole engine run.
Here's a pic of my buddies after the engine came out. As a friend says "It aint yours until you stand in the engine bay with a beer". I've got similar pictures of other cars I've swapped as well, including my buddy's 911 (trans swap). I think I'm going to make a mural in my garage.
(http://www.hostdub.com/albums/veeman_album07/td_swap4.jpg) (http://www.hostdub.com/veeman_album07:td_swap4)
After that, I took a little time to clean up the bay a bit. The caddy's not perfect (some rust / bent sheet metal), but it cleaned up pretty well.
(http://www.hostdub.com/albums/veeman_album07/td_swap2.jpg) (http://www.hostdub.com/veeman_album07:td_swap2)
Time for the new engine... I did that a few days later. Here's the TD, waiting to go in to its new home.
(http://www.hostdub.com/albums/veeman_album07/td_swap1.jpg) (http://www.hostdub.com/veeman_album07:td_swap1)
After putting the caddy way up in the air, I pushed the TD under the front of the car and used the hoist to pull it up from the bottom. Everything went in without a hitch. I began working on connecting all the accessories and planning the relocation of the fuel filter stand.
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Downpipe time
I decided I really wanted to ditch the restrictive cast iron downpipe and after looking at other TD downpipes in similar posts, I decided to take a crack at making a custom 2.5" pipe myself.
I ordered some mandrel bends from Summit Racing and a flange for the turbo outlet from ATP. Summit had two different radius bends available and I got a variety to be sure. As it turned out, the different bends came in very handy and quite cheap at around $16 each.
My friend Greg (TDI driver) came over and masterminded the project. He's a better welder than me and proved to have the "eyeball" to use the chop saw and get the bends we wanted.
Here's a test fit of the first bend off of the turbo...
(http://www.hostdub.com/albums/veeman_album07/dp_2.jpg) (http://www.hostdub.com/veeman_album07:dp_2)
Greg acting like a diesel Ricola salesman...
(http://www.hostdub.com/albums/veeman_album07/bugler.jpg) (http://www.hostdub.com/veeman_album07:bugler)
The biggest obstacle was the shift linkage in fourth gear, so we test fit that a few times. By leaving the top of the pipe loose at the flange, we were able to "clock" the downpipe and provide more room down at the linkage. The pic makes it look tight, but there's plenty of room there...
(http://www.hostdub.com/albums/veeman_album07/dp_1.jpg) (http://www.hostdub.com/veeman_album07:dp_1)
Using the mig to zap it all together... We bolted it to the spare turbo exhaust housing to keep the flange from warping. Nevermind the messy shop.
(http://www.hostdub.com/albums/veeman_album07/dp_5.jpg) (http://www.hostdub.com/veeman_album07:dp_5)
Here's the finished product. I thought it turned out pretty well. Gotta thank Greg for great work there... It seems to be a bit different in design than other custom TD pipes I've seen but when it's mounted it seems like it all fits fine. I've still got plenty of room to add a flex joint in the tunnel and a bracket up top to attach it to the manifold.
(http://www.hostdub.com/albums/veeman_album07/dp_6_finished.jpg) (http://www.hostdub.com/veeman_album07:dp_6_finished)
The plan is to paint the downpipe as well. I'm thinking BBQ paint or other high-temp paint. Not sure if that'll hold up, but if it looks better than rust, I'll be happy.
I ran into a problem with using the PO's Quantum alternator mounting setup, but swapped an NA bracket in last night. I'll use my NA alternator so the radiator won't interfere and so I won't have to cut off my stock alt plug.
The A/C on the car was in good condition and actually held pressure when I disconnected the lines, so for right now I'm going to try and make it all work. If the A/C won't work after some effort, I'll ditch all that stuff and go with a non A/C setup.
I haven't started the motor yet, but that should be soon... I've still got to relocate the fuel filter, finish the exhaust (side dump? stacks?), figure out how to wire the TD fan, EGT gauge and install a boost gauge.
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Dude - SWEET!!! :) Great looking work... Thanks for sharing pics, and good luck finishing it off! :P
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keep up the good work 8)
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Just found this place, maybe some use?
http://vwcaddyforum.com/
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Ah, better link
http://www.vwcaddy.com/
Easier to remember!
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I just thought I'd add a little update to this thread. The project continues.
Here's another shot of the finished downpipe. The flex section seemed WAY too stiff when I put it on, but once we hooked up the exhaust, it proved to flex quite a lot where needed.
(http://www.hostdub.com/albums/veeman_album07/TD_downpipe_flex.jpg) (http://www.hostdub.com/veeman_album07:TD_downpipe_flex)
After the downpipe, we started on the exhaust. I decided to do a full 2.5" system for the caddy with one resonator. Here's the pile of parts. Stock exhaust is on the left.
(http://www.hostdub.com/albums/veeman_album07/rear_exhaust_parts.jpg) (http://www.hostdub.com/veeman_album07:rear_exhaust_parts)
A quick shot to show the stock exhaust diameter compared to the 2.5" pipe...
(http://www.hostdub.com/albums/veeman_album07/stock_vs_25.jpg) (http://www.hostdub.com/veeman_album07:stock_vs_25)
Overall, the exhaust really didn't take that long to make although we did end up using the chop-saw quite a bit to make sections that would all weld together properly. Big thanks to my buddy Greg who's an ace at eyeballing those U-bends to make them slink around the tunnel in the caddy.
Greg contemplating the task...
(http://www.hostdub.com/albums/veeman_album07/rear_exhaust_almostdone.jpg) (http://www.hostdub.com/veeman_album07:rear_exhaust_almostdone)
On the truck. Not the best picture, but hopefully you can make out where the exhaust kicks out slightly to clear the shifter box...
(http://www.hostdub.com/albums/veeman_album07/rear_exhaust2_TD_001.jpg) (http://www.hostdub.com/veeman_album07:rear_exhaust2_TD_001)
Another shot of the near-finished exhaust (still missing a tailpipe). Since that pic was taken, I've come up with a more permanent exhaust hanger using some scraps of the stock hangers.
(http://www.hostdub.com/albums/veeman_album07/rear_exhaust_TD.jpg) (http://www.hostdub.com/veeman_album07:rear_exhaust_TD)
I was somewhat surprised at how much heavier the 2.5" exhaust is compared to the stock system even though it has one less muffler. The 2.5" pipe is pretty thick...
There's only one resonator / muffler on the system so far and it sounds great! Not really loud or obnoxious. You can definitely hear that turbo whine. I'll know more once I drive it.
I've also spent some time installing the GTI console and gauges in the caddy. I've got EGT, a voltmeter and oil pressure down below by the shifter...
(http://www.hostdub.com/albums/veeman_album07/guage_pod_gti.jpg) (http://www.hostdub.com/veeman_album07:guage_pod_gti)
I wired in all the gauges, but I'm still waiting on the adapter to mount the oil pressure sender along with the stock sender in the head. With all taht done, that still left the boost gauge to mount. I considered a dash mounted "cup" made by VDO, but I also thought it would be neat to mount it in a pillar-mounted gauge pod.
Simple, right? Well, not really... no one really makes one for the A1. I did some research and found that some people had been successful in using a Autometer pillar pod meant for Mk3 cars in an A1. I ordered one up and as it turns out it's pretty far from fitting right out of the box.
I ended up experimenting with some cardboard templates, a grinder and a heat gun and got it to fit pretty well. Essentially, I had to cut some material from the rear of the pod, then heat / form the top of the pod to conform around the A1 A-pillar.
(http://www.hostdub.com/albums/veeman_album07/A1_pillar_pod2.jpg) (http://www.hostdub.com/veeman_album07:A1_pillar_pod2)
(http://www.hostdub.com/albums/veeman_album07/A1_pillar_pod3.jpg) (http://www.hostdub.com/veeman_album07:A1_pillar_pod3)
Right now I've got it secured with one screw. Not sure how I like that idea. I might go for some velcro / adhesive tape for the bottom of the pod for reinforcement.
The only part that didn't really work out about the pod was the portion of the piece that goes against the door frame. The way the pod is made, there's simply not enough material to wrap all the way around. I tried heating and pulling on the plastic, but it only worked to a degree.
This is a pic of that side of the pod with the door open. when the door is closed, you can't even see that section since it is blocked by the door frame.
(http://www.hostdub.com/albums/veeman_album07/A1_pillar_pod_door.jpg) (http://www.hostdub.com/veeman_album07:A1_pillar_pod_door)
All in all, I'm pretty satisfied with how it works out. It'll be nice to keep an eye on the boost while I'm driving without looking down.
One important thing to remember about the modification of that pod is that my caddy is a base model truck. That means it doesn't have the A-pillar trim that a rabbit GTI or deluxe might have. In my case, since I don't have that trim, it was easier for the pod to be fitted inbetween the dash and the pillar. I still think you can use the Mk3 pod on A1's with trim, but it might look slightly different, especially on the back side.
Next, I've got to run the boost line and wiring to the pod. I found an "updated" boost tee (sold by ECS_tuning) that supposedly solves the VDO gauge's tendancy to "buzz" or flutter. I'll try it out and see what happens.
I should be driving this thing soon after I finish mounting the fuel filter in the passenger wheel well, figure out a solution for my clear fuel line and I attach the cabriolet fender liners.
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I just thought I'd add a little update to this thread. The project continues.
Next, I've got to run the boost line and wiring to the pod. I found an "updated" boost tee (sold by ECS_tuning) that supposedly solves the VDO gauge's tendancy to "buzz" or flutter. I'll try it out and see what happens.
Always nice to see a project advancing :)
I think I need the same T cause my VDO gauge is buzzing when the pressure goes up :? can you provide a link?
nightshot of my gauge in a pod:
http://morninglight.demon.nl/a3/turbodrukm.jpg
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Sure.... I got mine from ECS tuning (www.ecstuning.com), but I think NewSouth Performance actually makes them. Should be about $6 or so.
http://www.newsouthperformance.com/fitting.htm
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The boost gauge in my Jetta buzzes too.....but not the one in my rabbit for some reason. How does the restrictor help?
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The restrictor dampens the shockwaves produced by the turbo... :)
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Looking great, veeman... 8)
FYI: the a-piller plastic coverings are found in all '84 (or 83) and up Rabbits, which had the glue-in windshields. The earlier cars with the rubber windshield gaskets got the vinyl trim. I would think that the Rabbit pickups would be equipped the same.
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>>a-piller plastic coverings are found in all '84 (or 83) and up Rabbits, which had the glue-in windshields. The earlier cars with the rubber windshield gaskets got the vinyl trim. I would think that the Rabbit pickups would be equipped the same.
You're right... My rabbit truck has the rubber windshield seal and the vinyl trim, but my 83 GTI has the plastic trim. After I got done modifying the gauge pod to fit the caddy, I tried to fit it in the GTI and saw that the trim was different. It didn't want to fit. I'd probably have to cut more off the bottom of the pod and change the shape around the top to make that work.
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Update: First test drive!
I got things all buckled up last night in anticipation of a test drive today. I changed the fuel filter to elimnate all those nasty bubbles in the fuel line and ran the tubing for the boost gauge. I ended up running it along the rain tray and in through a grommet in the firewall so I could hook it up to the boost gauge on the pillar.
The green "light diffusers" for the VDO gauges showed up on Friday, so now all the gauges in the GTI cluster and the boost gauge are backlit green just like the stock dash. It looks pretty neat.
This morning, I was able to take the caddy out for a test drive. It smoked quite a bit when I first started it up (diesel in the cylinders from sitting?), but it smoothed out after running for a while.
The engine seems to run pretty well. I saw boost up to around 10 psi (stock turbo / wastegate setup) in third gear and I can say that the additional power over my 1.5L engine is very welcome. The boost tee that I installed along with my gauge seems to be doing its job at eliminating needle "flutter" or buzz. I'm very satisfied with that... you can read the boost level accurately even in full boost.
After everything was warmed up, I kept my eye on my EGT gauge to see how high it got. I picked a long hill and tried to keep in the throttle all the way up.
The highest I saw on my gauge (also VDO with the short silver probe) was slightly higher than 850. Does that procedure and those temperatures sound about right for a stock engine? I'm hoping to have some room to play with the fueling / boost...
The 2.5" exhaust is great...no rattles and it's suprisingly quiet. Possibly even quieter than the stock caddy exhaust in NA form. Maybe that's my imagination though.
The five speed transmission is also a welcomed change as well. I got on the highway and 65mph seemed WAY more comfortable than it ever did with the previous engine and the four speed. That's good news considering I plan to commute with this thing...
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850C is a bit on the highside for a stock engine, did you adjust the pumptiming? High exhausttemps are caused by over retarded-timing.
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>>850C is a bit on the highside for a stock engine, did you adjust the pumptiming?
Sorry... I meant 850 F. I haven't adjusted timing just yet. The probe the exhaust manifold is pre-turbo. Just found this thread that's saying the upper limit on a stock engine is 1500 F...
http://www.vwdiesel.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=1578
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Stock fueling and no intercooler right? I'd expect your exhaust gas temps to be cooler than a stock 1.6lTD due to the 2.5" exhaust (perhaps by 150 deg. F), but 850 deg. F is still pretty cool. To test the true maximum, you need to floor it all the way until the EGT gauge stops rising.
What temps are you seeing cruising at 65mph on the freeway? I'd guess you will see around 600 deg. F if the pyrometer is working right.
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Jake... the engine is indeed stock, running stock boost and no intercooler for the moment...
>>What temps are you seeing cruising at 65mph on the freeway? I'd guess you will see around 600 deg. F if the pyrometer is working right.
I had the chance to drive the caddy last night and this morning to work. Cruising at 60-65 mph, I'm seeing around 700-750 on the EGT's and right around 3-4 psi of boost.
There's a long hill (expressway) on the 30 minute commute to work and I tried to floor it all the way up the hill in fifth gear (that would have been laughable with the 1.5).
It held 10-11 psi all the way up the hill and pulled fine. At the top of the hill, I saw around 1200 degrees or so on the gauge. I could smell stuff burning off the new exhaust, so I can tell it had heated up quite a bit. Assuming that's fine, I'm going to start investigating some performance tweaking to the pump / wastegate.
The only problems thus far are on startup. Even if I glow the plugs and pull the cold start lever, the engine starts up very rough (like it's missing) and puts out prodigious amounts of white smoke. Mosquito's in three counties pay the price everytime I crank it up.
If I let it idle and slowly easy on the accelerator, it seems to clear up and as it gets warmer, the smoke disappears rapidly. I need to do some more reading in the archives, but a friend has suggested that the pump timing might be a bit retarded... Any ideas?
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Correct, the temp limits of a bone-stock 1.6lTD (when tested to the absolute MAX) are 1500 deg. F pre-turbine, and 1300 deg. F post-turbine.
700-750 deg. F 65mph cruise seems excessive, and indicates something isn't working right... probably in your fuel injection system. Overly retarded timing could explain that as well as missing and hard starting when cold.
You should probably check/set your cam timing and fuel injection timing and then report back whether that helps. Set the fuel injection timing right to 1.00mm. Cam timing needs to be set before injection timing. Good luck and have fun!
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Well..the first two tanks of fuel came back with approximately 39-40 mpg. Not what I expected. I would have though I'd get closer to 44 if I keep it under 65 and don't hotfoot it around too much.
I checked the timing per Jake's suggestion and found it to be set nearer to .8 mm rather than 1mm. Strange. I imagine it could have been "bumped" a little during shipping / handling.
I reset it to 1mm and found that the exhaust temps have gone down a bit and the engine in general seems to run better with more power. The engine starts up very quickly and doesn't seem to be missing / smoking so much any more when cold.
I also found that the clip on the cold-start cable had fallen off on the pump bracket. That means that the cable could indeed actuate the arm to cold start position, but couldn't return all the way back to the "normal" position. I'm assuming that caused some problems recently as well. It's my understanding that the cold start lever only advances the timing at idle and relatively low rpm's, right?
I put the clip back on the cable (at the pump) and adjusted the cable per the Bentley.
Other news... Some buddies and I are collecting supplies to start brewing Biodiesel. We've got some sources of good used Soybean oil and we've already brewed a few test batches.
We're planning on going with the open source "appleseed" processing model and I'll start out by running around 30-50% BD once it's all done.
I'll probably need to replace a few of the rubber lines on the caddy to run BD over extended periods of time...
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Veeman, my '80 n/a diesel rabbit would only get 44 mpg or better when I kept the speed at 55 on the freeway, so your 39-40 at 60 sounds like it's in the ball park to me. My rabbit also got about 40 combined city/freeway, but dropped to 37-38 in 65-70 freeway romps.
In any case, now that you've bumped up the timing I'll bet the fuel economy improves.
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Update...
I've been daily driving the caddy to and from work (~60 miles each day, 7k miles overall) and so far, things have been great.
The only real problem I've had is that alternator belt was coming loose about every 500 miles or so.
As a result, I had to replace the old alternator from my 1.6 NA with a new unit not because the alternator wasn't working, but actually because the mounting holes were distorted and broken.
I found the bracket on the engine was in equally bad shape, so I had to change that out in order for the belt to tension (and stay tensioned). I really dislike messing with that bracket. My friends and I joke about "three hour cussing sessions" with our cars, but that bracket is not so easy to change out.
Next... I had installed the 2.5" exhaust back in August, but never put an exhaust tip or tail pipe on it. This was sort of a problem because the exhaust resonated under the bed and covered the driver's side rear with soot.
Anyway, I had a fabricator friend of mine (Kevin at DTR Performance in Florence, KY) take a look and we talked about some ideas. I thought of going with a single turn-down out the back, but eventually went back to the stock exit location.
Here's how it turned out...
(http://www.hostdub.com/albums/veeman_album07/tip_TD1.jpg) (http://www.hostdub.com/veeman_album07:tip_TD1)
I really like the slash cut tip and the angled exit makes me think of the OEM scirocco 16V exhaust. The tips are actually made from stainless (schedule 5?) pipe that Kevin hand-polished himself. Great work...
I provided some mandrel bends and Kevin did a smooth over the axle bend...top notch work. Not easy to do. Here's a crappy pic of the over the axle bit...
(http://www.hostdub.com/albums/veeman_album07/tip_TD2.jpg) (http://www.hostdub.com/veeman_album07:tip_TD2)
I've started producing large batches of biodiesel, so for the future, I'm tring to source viton hoses so I can run B80 or B100 in the caddy. Eventually, I'll have to have the seals in the pump replaced as well. MIght be time for a Gilles pump treatment at that time.
I've also got to decide whether I'm going to ditch the A/C as it appears there's no easy way to add an intercooler with it installed.
I'd like to do the governor mod and up the boost, but that will probably wait until it's warmer.
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Terrific post. Nice work.
I'm working a Caddy/1.6TD project in Texas. Will post photos once I get to the point where I wouldn't be embarrassed. I'm planning to put the intercooler where the battery normally sits. Moved my battery to the bed and ran cables through the passenger compartment (after trying to route them under the car with unsatisfactory results). Also keeping the AC (As I said before, I live in Texas!)
Here's a place that does gauge pods for A1s (haven't bought one yet):
http://www.gaugepods.com/vw.html
How much was your turbo rebuild, by the way? :D
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Very sweet caddy.... nicely done! love the exhaust!
I wonder if that place for the pods actually sells to fit MK1...i see they say so but their pic looks like its one in an MK2... Would be cool though.
fastgerman on the vwvortex is working on having custom pillar pods built specifically for the MK1... has already gone through one test and run...going back to have it remolded.... there was a group buy "pre" list on there too...
believe his handle is fstgrmn on the 'tex
Joe