VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.
General Information => Troubleshooting => Topic started by: Jettage1 on December 31, 2008, 04:09:04 pm
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(regarding my '92 Eco Diesel) Bentley is not entirely helpful here...
1. Do you have to remove the water pump pulley to get the lower cover off?
2. My car has A/C. I've removed the 4 bolts from the double pulley at the crank but can't seem to budge it off. It's either a really tight fit or the crank bolt has to come off too. (or something else...) Hints?
3. Does anyone have an extra power steering pump tensioning bolt assembly? (The threaded eye and bolt) My eyebolt decided to shear off.
4. Bonus unrequested commentary - changing the timing belt & tensioner isn't so much fun, so far.
5. Double bonus - I do get to install my new Giles-blessed IP though! :mrgreen:
Thanks in advance!
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1. Yes (as far as 1.6TD's go) it's just three Allan bolts if i recall isn't it to take it off?
2. dunno AC
3. Sorry i don't have an extra one :(
4. Not to worry after your first time it's much easier. (such as loosening bolts with the belt still on and clamped down.
5. Giles IP!? NO FAIR!!!
Cheers :P I hope i help a little
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Thanks Smokey. Regarding the water pump pulley, I was afraid of that. I realized it after I had the belt off, so now I guess I need to reinstall the belt so I'll have some way of holding the pulley from turning whilst unbolting it. I'll look at it again tomorrow.
I find it's better to stop working on a project BEFORE I start throwing wrenches around the shop. :shock: Things usually look better in the morning.
The Giles thing was an unintended side benefit of needing to re-seal the old pump. After reviewing my options (and the US - Canada exchange rate) I decided to put my money into a completely rebuilt pump with LDA so I get some extra hp too!
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#2 above: should be just a tight fit with some dirt and a little rust thrown in as well. You can gently heat the pulley with a propane torch (moving it around the pulley centrally) and it will expand a bit.
Too much heat will get you a new front crank seal...but, you would really have to get crazy with propane to do that.
Water pump pulley? There is a $32 tool made to hold those water pump shafts out there (I've never been able to afford one). I carefully use vise grips on the thin pulley sides to keep them from turning. You have to be careful. If you manage to "dent" one, you can smooth it out with a file.
When you put all those bolts back in during assembly, do go with some anti-sieze. It will help if you have to take this apart within the next two years or so.
Yes, all this work is, at times, annoying. I always try to remember what it was like to sweat car payments when I am laying under there with *** falling in my face as I round the allen headed bolts off and cut my hand on the fender edges :roll: .
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freakin US dollar :( :evil: :evil: !!!
?I somehow managed without putting the belt back on but i don't remember how....
I think i bared the pulley with a ruler and loosened them enough so i didn't need to bar it from turning.
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Hi Dakota,
Thanks for the tips. I'll get a torch & give that a go. I hope this doesn't turn into one of those projects where you end up saying that the $$ paid to a mechanic would have been money well spent :roll:
Glad for this forum, though. :wink:
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baring it with a piece of stock works very well and easily with no risk of damageing stuff. I just did it today.
torch + alluminum pump housing = weird looking puddle of shiney tin foil stuff on the garage floor.
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The torch would be for the crank pulley, not the waterpump pulley, I think.
:wink:
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I tap on the bottom of the pully (outward), turn the engine and tap the other side.
Rinse, repeat.
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For pulleys I just lightly tap one side, then the other. I tap them on, not off. Once they start wobbling you should be able to wiggle it off with your hands.
Don't take the 19mm 12pt bolt out of the crank. You don't need it. It is a stretch bolt.
I bought the germanautoparts waterpump holder tool. It's fantastic. Before I had it I would just blip the bolts with my impact gun
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I usually grab the waterpump pulley with my right hand and the hex key with the wrong hand and give her what for. I have lots of scars on my hands. My wife bought a set of mechanics gloves for Christmas in 07 which were almost as expensive as a tool but I get to use them on the rest of the car.
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The torch would be for the crank pulley.
Not exactly. The ECOdiesel uses a harmonic balancer type pulley. If you look closelier, you'll see that the outer P/S pulley and the inner AC pulley on the crank are ONE unit. If you used a torch, you'd burn the rubber out.
Do the tapping trick. I use a rubber hammer on the face if I can't reach the backside. The one-piece pulley is pretty stout, and can handle a pretty heavy hit from the rubber mallet.
Good luck.
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Don't forget, that pully is expensive to replace.
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Sorry for posting my probably worthless comments.
It must be different for eco's and with the AC in the way because on my 1.6TD MF i had NO trouble just baring the pulley with a piece of flat stock with one hand and undoing the bolts with an allen wrench with a pipe on the end of it for the first time "stuck" bolts. must be a different story or something. we are talking about water pump pulley right?
by baring i just mean shove the stock between two of the bolts and apply opposite forces (in the right directions of course), it's hard to explain i guess. If all else fails i can post a pic of me doing it. I may want to put anti-seize on those bolts anyways.
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Smokey - thanks for the "barring" idea for the water pump pulley. I'll be trying that this afternoon. (edit: that idea worked well & pulley is off! Ended up rounding a couple of the allen bolts, but that's where vice grips are handy.)
Quantum - you were right. I hadn't noticed, but my crank pulley is also harmonic (rubber insert ring). I used a rubber mallet on the face, rotated the crank and pried gently from the rear with a steel bar. It was off in about 15 minutes.
Thanks to all for the help. Hope to get to the actual belt & tensioner removal today.
Hey, assuming I get the tensioner off okay (heard horror stories) what do you guys use to "re-tension" the belt? I know there's a VW 2-prong tool, but do you have suggestions for a simple substitute?
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Sorry for posting my probably worthless comments.
It must be different for eco's and with the AC in the way because on my 1.6TD MF i had NO trouble just baring the pulley with a piece of flat stock with one hand and undoing the bolts with an allen wrench with a pipe on the end of it for the first time "stuck" bolts. must be a different story or something. we are talking about water pump pulley right?
by baring i just mean shove the stock between two of the bolts and apply opposite forces (in the right directions of course), it's hard to explain i guess. If all else fails i can post a pic of me doing it. I may want to put anti-seize on those bolts anyways.
not a worthless comment :wink: the antiseize is always a good idea! when i want to install a/c in my jetta this summer it will be a breeze to take off the pulley :)
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Hey, assuming I get the tensioner off okay (heard horror stories) what do you guys use to "re-tension" the belt? I know there's a VW 2-prong tool, but do you have suggestions for a simple substitute?
Just a bump on this question - before I drop the $30+ on the tool... :roll:
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Honestly, i just pull on the tensioner with one hand as hard as i can and tighten the nut with the other :oops:
i always check to see how tight i got it of course. If im having trouble i'll get someone else to tighten the nut while i use two hands and put a foot on the bumper. :roll:
giving it a few revelutions is also a must to make sure the tension is evenly distributed.
people are gonna say im a moron though for doing this. I expect that :roll: but i've never had an issue (yet)
never forget to double check the timing once you have the belt on!!!!!!!!!!
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I do it the same way Ed. I just pull up on the Tensioner by hand (not as hard as I can, it doesn't need to be that tight). Make sure you are rotating it clockwise. You need the 2 pronged tool on TDIs because they are tensioned tighter then the IDIs.
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Fork with two bent tines will work well, as will snap-ring pliers with right-angle tips.
I also heard of a guy who used a stick of wood with two long nails driven thru it. :wink:
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Thanks for the good ideas, guys. At least I know what to expect. I like the stick & two nails - very utilitarian. :lol:
Cheers!
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I think im going to make one of those today! :D
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Here's my home made water pump pulley removal tool. Slip it over the heads of the three bolts. Holds pulley still while you loosen all bolts. Works for tightening too.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v455/cbx4evr/100_1514a.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v455/cbx4evr/100_1515a.jpg)
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I just put my injector pump back on and I'm paranoid of tightening the t-belt too much.
Anyways, on the belt midway between the cam and pump there is 5/8 inch of slop when I grab it on each side my with thumb and pinky and pull it up and down. Does this sound acceptable?
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The general consensus on timing belt tension for the IDI engines is 45 degrees of twist checked between the cam and pump sprockets. By twist I mean grab the belt with your thumb and forefinger, and see how much you can twist it with firm, but not excessive effort. 5/8 up and down sounds ok but I'd check it with the twist method too.
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The twist method stinks. Using the proper VW tension measuring tool and setting the belt to the spec for tension it takes no effort to twist past 45°. 90° is possible, but takes effort.
The tool that fits the tensioner is not nearly as valuable as the tension measuring tool. As others have mentioned, you can get the proper tension on the belt by rotating the tension and applying hand pressure, no tool necessary. Using the tool, it's actually hard to avoid over-tightening the belt. If the belt is over-tightened, the intermediate shaft bearings and injection pump shaft bushings will be worn out very quickly.
Interesting. My t-belt is likely slightly over-tightened then. It's true that the twist method is pretty inaccurate given that your measurement will vary based on the amount of twisting force applied. Do you know of any supplier that sells the tension measuring tool for a decent price?
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We should put the whole 45 degree twist thing in the FAQ, shouldn't we. :wink:
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Yeah it sounds like I got it right, I can easily twist it 45* with thumb and pinky. I also cranked the tensioner tight using just my fingers. When first got into diesel vws I used the tool and cranked it so I could go no more than 45*, I was afraid it would slip teeth, I'm also on my 3rd set of IP bushings :roll: . This time I did it myself, pressing the bushings in and reaming them, much cheaper to do myself. I also wacked off the control lever stop since I have an LDA to put on, FWIW it makes lots of black smoke :P . Well thanks guys :D