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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: 96jetta on December 30, 2008, 09:07:07 am

Title: fueling
Post by: 96jetta on December 30, 2008, 09:07:07 am

ive got the cam and the crank all in perfect timing but there is no bit in the fuel. ive lined up the hole and the slot in the injection pump. however it doesnt seem to be going for me. is there some thing im missing here?

Title: fueling
Post by: theman53 on December 30, 2008, 09:14:37 am

If by bit you mean the tool to align the pump then it doesn't go in far. I usually wiggle my IP sprocket back and forth before timing to make sure that the tool is in place.
Other than that I am not sure what you could be talking about?

Title: fueling
Post by: 96jetta on December 30, 2008, 09:51:06 am

lol na sorry typo. i ment to say bite in the fuel. the starter keeps turning the motor over but the fuel doesnt bite, explode, catch sorta deal

Title: fueling
Post by: zukgod1 on December 30, 2008, 10:07:35 am

Power to the fuel cut off solenoid?

Title: fueling
Post by: 96jetta on December 30, 2008, 10:14:57 am

the key is turned to the on/ignition position

Title: fueling
Post by: 96jetta on December 30, 2008, 10:25:43 am

i wemt out to the garage and checked the voltage on the solenoid behind the pump on the top. it has power it floats between 0.38DC volts-12.75DC volts

Title: fueling
Post by: zukgod1 on December 30, 2008, 10:27:46 am

Shouldn't float. 12v consistent.

Crack a line at one of the injectors and turn it over to see if there is fuel at the injector.

Title: fueling
Post by: 96jetta on December 30, 2008, 10:30:18 am

i did that yesterday to see if the pump was actually pushing out fuel. i had to hold the throttle wide open to get a decent amount out though.

Title: fueling
Post by: zukgod1 on December 30, 2008, 10:39:43 am

what do you have the timing set at?

Title: fueling
Post by: 96jetta on December 30, 2008, 10:41:20 am

what do u mean set at??

Title: fueling
Post by: Vincent Waldon on December 30, 2008, 10:47:13 am

He means:  when you used a dial indicator to accurately set the injection pump timing, what value did you use?

My suggestion:  start back at the beginning... what are you doing, why are you doing it, what have you done so far?  Your first post kinda leaps into the middle of the story and we're gonna play 20 questions for a while if we don't start back at the beginning. :lol:

Title: fueling
Post by: 96jetta on December 30, 2008, 10:50:49 am

i destroyed the lifters a while back ao i pulled the head to c the damage. installed a new head guasket, liters, cam, timing belt and timing bel tentioner. ive put the timing marks dead on several times. but as much as i try i cant get the pump timing right. ell thats what i think the problem is  :(

Title: fueling
Post by: 96jetta on December 30, 2008, 10:51:35 am

and no i didnt use a dial indicator

Title: fueling
Post by: Vincent Waldon on December 30, 2008, 10:58:23 am

OK, a couple of thoughts:

- assuming the lifters got destroyed due to valves colliding with pistons, was the head completely disassembled and all components checked ?  Enough force to destroy lifters usually means as least some of the valves will have deformed shafts that won't move freely and can jam open.

- did you prime the injection pump by applying suction to the "Out" fitting until no air came out ?  If not, it can take a lot of cranking for the system to prime itself

- if you are primed, are you getting any fuel at all when you crack an injector line ?  Even with the timing out of whack you should get a bit of fuel at the injector line, with the key in the on position

- does your injection pump pulley have one central bolt and three smaller bolts, or just the one central bolt.  If it just has the one central bolt you need a dial indicator to accurately set the timing... aligning the marks gets the belt in the right spot but the precise timing can still be way off:

http://vincewaldon.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=24&Itemid=28

Title: fueling
Post by: 96jetta on December 30, 2008, 11:01:52 am

the head was not completely disassembled i just pushed down on the valves and they cam out straight so i figured that was ok. is it? the pump has fuel coming from the cracked lines to the injectors. the pump is the 3 bolt on a center bolt pattern

Title: fueling
Post by: Vincent Waldon on December 30, 2008, 11:11:15 am

Did you pull the head and inspect the valves, or was this all done from the top of the engine?  If the head stayed on there's all kinds of undetected internal damage that could have happened which is preventing the engine from starting...a compression test might help determine what's going on internally.

In terms of the pump timing... you have the adjustable sprocket... so you're loosening the three smaller bolts on the sprocket and rotating the pulley until your timing pin slides into the slot at the top ?

Title: fueling
Post by: 96jetta on December 30, 2008, 11:15:12 am

ya i pulled the head completely off and left the cam and rotated it in the work bench and all the valves came down straight. thats how ive been doing the fuel pump lol just rotate it till the slot lines up with the hole. and i cant find any one with a long enough bit to pull the injectors out:(

Title: fueling
Post by: Vincent Waldon on December 30, 2008, 12:03:50 pm

Diesels need fuel, timing, and compression.

Sounds like you have fuel and your timing is probably close enough to at least cough... compression test would be a good next step imho.

How fast was the engine running when the valves met the pistons?

Title: fueling
Post by: 96jetta on December 30, 2008, 01:20:34 pm

about 4200 rpm  :oops:

Title: fueling
Post by: zukgod1 on December 30, 2008, 02:22:08 pm

Time for a compression test my friend.

If that's up to snuff which I doubt then you need to get the correct timing tools to set the timing as required.

Title: fueling
Post by: Vincent Waldon on December 30, 2008, 04:28:20 pm

Quote from: "zukgod1"

If that's up to snuff which I doubt then you need to get the correct timing tools to set the timing as required.

The good news is that the OP has an AAZ with a pre-calibrated pump and adjustable sprocket... no dial indicator required to get the timing bang on. :wink:

Title: fueling
Post by: zukgod1 on December 30, 2008, 07:56:46 pm

Damn! I knew that. Have idi on the brain.

I still say he needs a compression test though.

Title: fueling
Post by: 96jetta on December 30, 2008, 10:17:22 pm

where can i find the right bit to go into the glow plug hole? ive went to auto source and canadian tire but they only have a 12mm and 14mm bit. i need the 13mm one.

Title: fueling
Post by: 96jetta on January 03, 2009, 03:19:03 pm

ive got 300psi in the #1,310psi in the #2, 300psi in the #3, 315psi in the #4

Title: fueling
Post by: Smokey Eddy on January 03, 2009, 03:23:11 pm

Quote from: "96jetta"

where can i find the right bit to go into the glow plug hole? ive went to auto source and canadian tire but they only have a 12mm and 14mm bit. i need the 13mm one.

How did you get the tester into the GP hole?

Title: fueling
Post by: burn_your_money on January 03, 2009, 03:38:01 pm

Quote from: "96jetta"

ive got 300psi in the #1,310psi in the #2, 300psi in the #3, 315psi in the #4

You'll be lucky if it starts with those numbers in anything below 0 C.

Title: fueling
Post by: 96jetta on January 04, 2009, 07:33:49 am

i didnt i pulled all of the injectors and did it from there. butthe compression tester only hits 300psi again i couldnt find anything. so for all i know its above

Title: fueling
Post by: Mark(The Miser)UK on January 05, 2009, 03:33:09 am

Quote from: "burn_your_money"

Quote from: "96jetta"

ive got 300psi in the #1,310psi in the #2, 300psi in the #3, 315psi in the #4

You'll be lucky if it starts with those numbers in anything below 0 C.

The readings are all so similar, that I'd be inclined to say that the gauge may be reading low. I have a snap-on gauge, which I believe is correct, however my adaptors are made up. First readings on my car were all 160psi. I've now filled more space up inside the injector body I used and they are all over 300psi. Car starts at -5 C. I had most of the internals to the injector [only lower half used], yet had to add washers etc to remove that 1cc. I my fill with lead and drill a pilot hole.

Title: fueling
Post by: Vincent Waldon on January 05, 2009, 09:33:22 am

Quote from: "96jetta"

i didnt i pulled all of the injectors and did it from there. butthe compression tester only hits 300psi again i couldnt find anything. so for all i know its above

Are you saying the dial on your compression tester only reads up to 300 psi ??