VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.
Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: Jettagli16v on December 17, 2008, 03:36:13 pm
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Thanks in advance.
Assembling parts to do a 3" SS DP and 3" down the tunnel,
going into a 2.5" SS Techtonics over axle (Mk2 GLi 16v) and 2.5" dump behind the driver's rear wheel.
I need to find a flange for the turbo outlet (to DP) in 3" and Stainless.
It looks like a T4 style flange may do it,
but they are pricey and I want to know I am getting the right thing before I buy.
This is visually what I am looking at, but I cannot find dimensions for the thing!
(http://images.marketplaceadvisor.channeladvisor.com/hi/55/54747/t4dp.jpg)
Anyone recommend a place to buy them,
or can accurately tell me what kind of flange I need?
Only Prothe could help me with the gasket, and I already bought one T3 outlet flange, that is not correct.
Thanks again!
-Brad
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you need to take exact measurements, more than likely it will need to be a custom job, just make one, it isn't that hard
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I am currently manufacturing new flanges to the old turbochargers for VW 1.6TD 1.9TD.
The new flanges are going to fit , Garrett T2 T3 , KKK K03 K14 K24
63.5mm (2.5 inch) exit , thickness 10mm (0.393 inch)
Lazercut.
The most powerfull K24 got 50.5mm (1.988 inch) at exit.
I will add pictures of the flanges as soon as possible.
Best regards Anton Sweden.
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll222/Savarturbo/DSCN3641.jpg)
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll222/Savarturbo/DSCN3642.jpg)
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you need to take exact measurements, more than likely it will need to be a custom job, just make one, it isn't that hard
How much are these expensive flanges ? If anywhere near $100, that's your excuse to buy a drill press and make your own. Home Depot sells bimetallic circle saws for about $11. That what I used to make mine.
towards the bottom of the page http://www.vwdiesel.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=15633&start=0
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Thats the thing....
I CAN make them already on the drill press at the shop. I would rather purchase it. It will look nicer and be easier to Tig weld to.
With the millions of turbo flanges for sale in the world from all sizes and all different qualities of metal, I want to find the RIGHT one and I must find it in Stainless, and I want it made on a water or laser jet.
I know thats a lot to ask, but I was assuming someone else had been here before,
But I suppose if that person is out there, they should be in here!
We shall see...
Thanks again!
-Brad
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if you can draw it on cad, my buddy waterjets, maybe $40?
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Well, I can also mail you my old gasket.
If a plate could be made of the exact same dimensions as the gasket, but with a bigger hole for the tubing, that would be it!
Let me know..
-Brad
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sounds completely foolproof to me !
I'll pm you address and all that
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The 2.5" system will make the downpipe flow like a 2.5" anyway (physics major). Save some money and go 2.5" turbo back. 2.5" is larger than the engine needs anyway.
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OK, Physics major, (no disrespect, genuine question)
does the restriction of gases flowing through a pipe not decrease as length increases?
3" DP into 2.5" is entirely common on gas turbo cars,
and while I understand the "Chain is only as strong (restrictive) as its weakest link (pipe diameter)"
It also seems to make sense (From my personal hydrodynamics experience - swimming pool plumbing)
that the restriction of a smaller pipe is less dramatic the further you get from the source.
(though my physics vernacular may be a bit rusty)
If I have more volume in the exhaust close to the turbo, does that not allow more air to leave the turbo comfortably?
Thanks,
-Brad
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For 3"
http://www.atpturbo.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=ATP-FLS-013&Category_Code=ATP-FLS1
For 2.5"
http://www.atpturbo.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=ATP-FLS-032&Category_Code=ATP-FLS1
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^^^ $18!
Have you laid out how the 3" elbows are going to fit? seems tight. I couldn't find 3" with a radius tight enough to make it easy. 4 1/2" was the smallest radius I could find.
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^^^ $18!
Have you laid out how the 3" elbows are going to fit? seems tight. I couldn't find 3" with a radius tight enough to make it easy. 4 1/2" was the smallest radius I could find.
I built my WHOLE turbo back system with this kit...I only have about $200 into my whole exhaust system.
..full 3" turbo back....
http://store.racing-solutions.org/3on4rasuexbu.html
this place is cheap and easy to deal with... 8)
(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j240/53willys/1991%20Jetta%20GLI%20diesel%20conversion/downpipe2.jpg)
I made all my flanges...
(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j240/53willys/1991%20Jetta%20GLI%20diesel%20conversion/downpipe9.jpg)
it's easy to make your own if you have the tools and time. 8)
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The 2.5" system will make the downpipe flow like a 2.5" anyway (physics major). Save some money and go 2.5" turbo back. 2.5" is larger than the engine needs anyway.
Are you absolutely certain about that?
Because I'm almost positive that's not the case.
Theory is that if you use a 3" downpipe and have it connect onto a 2.5" cat-back system, the temperature of the gas will reduce during its path in the downpipe, and when it reaches the 2.5" section, the same amount of gas will require less space because of the lowered pressure (=temperature).
Dyno results of many of my friends would seem to prove it - for example, on a Saab 2.0 litre turbo engine, a 3" DP conneted to stock 2 1/4" catback would yield a 15 hp gain and then switching the catback to a full 3" system would give just 7 hp more.
For the 3" DP to only allow 2.5" levels of flow, the temperature of the exhaust gas would have to remain constant throughout the whole exhaust system. As this is not so, a 3" DP with a 2.5" cat-back should always be better than just 2.5 turbo-back. Several racing cars use this combination too, or 3.5" DP to a 3" cat-back.
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53Willys:
Thanks,
but I am a total Stainless wh0#e.
I keep my cars (average) 8-10 years, and have even worn out stainless exhausts in this harsh Florida climate
(That is harsh moisture wise, not temperature wise, my canadian friends!)
935Racer:
Dont want to doubt you, Dave, but I bought a flange identical to that in SS from Ebay, and it was too big (studs too far apart) for use in my app.
If you are sure this is the one, I believe you,
but it is also mild steel....
brings me back to fabrication....
Arrggghhh!
And thanks for the backup on the 3" / 2.5" debate. I confirmed with my Rocket scientist friend (Aeronautical engineer) and he also says you will see less pressure with 5-6 feet of 3" pipe instead of 2.5".
-Brad
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53Willys:
Thanks,
but I am a total Stainless wh0#e.
I keep my cars (average) 8-10 years, and have even worn out stainless exhausts in this harsh Florida climate
(That is harsh moisture wise, not temperature wise, my canadian friends!)
you would be surprised how long aluminized, sprayed with high temp paint will last :wink:
but if SS is your fancy you can get that too..
2.5" 409SS
http://store.racing-solutions.org/2odx3ra409st.html
2.5" 304SS
http://store.racing-solutions.org/2stsuinbukit1.html
3.0" 409SS
http://store.racing-solutions.org/3odx4ra409st.html
3.0" 304SS
http://store.racing-solutions.org/st3on6rasubu1.html
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I know, I know,
but I aim to make a turbo-back on the order of (dare I say it?)
935Racer's one-offs...
It will be 3" all through the tunnel, with a TechTonics 2.5" over axle,
3 V-band flanges throughout, and TIG welded (backpurged with Argon of course!).
I will be wrapping the DP in header wrap
(to be kind to my shift linkage)
and polishing it piece by piece over time.
When I get done,
I will NEVER have a single exhaust concern as long as I keep the car,
until I hit the threshold of what 2.5" can move over the axle. (what, probably at 250-300 Lb/Ft)
Then I will commit to 3" and deal with the rubbing.
Flanges to buy??
Thanks,
-BRAD
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I got 3" on mine all the way and it didn't rub until i move the one hanger ao i need to get back under it and fix it. I don't think we need much more than 2.5" on our little displacement engines. I put 3" on mine after my go big or go home buddies talked me into it. I think i would like my straight pipe sound a little more if i had 2.5".
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Flanges to buy??
There's a couple of exhaust vendors on eBay that carry inexpensive T3 flanges... they generally list one kind of metal or the other but I've found if you email them they usually carry both.
Got my last T3 flange there... he listed stainless steel but also had mild. Can't find the invoice or I'd post it.. search for "T3 flange" and you should find a couple.
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Thanks, vince:
Problem is, I THOUGHT it would be that easy,
bought an SS flange for $10 + $10 ship, and it was VERY close, but a bit too large.
I bought it as a "GT / T4 outlet flange"
The Ebay guys infrequently provide me dimensions...
I wanted to avoid trying too many more, and just go get the right one.
I guess I may just have to try 4 more, and hope I get lucky....
Thanks, all.
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EUREEKA!!!!
I have found it!
The problem is:
Garrett T3 on the TD is a "T31" outlet flange! (Not a T3/GT!)
Here are the numbers:
(From Mo @ www.atpturbo.com)
Flange (T31 outlet to 3" V-band in mild steel)
ATP-FLS-029 (this is a sweet flange in mild to do a 3" DP)
This is what I am buying:
T31 outlet to 2.5" X 3" transition, and 3" V-band in Stainless!
All together, this adapter will run $95. (and only 1.75" long!)
If you want this, call them and reference quote #286266.
If you want the proper flange to weld 2.5" to in SS,
part# ATP-FLS-084
Transition # ATP-FLS-003
Thanks for the help,
and remember,
May the T31 be with you!
-Brad
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Well, no ***. 8) I never would have guessed T31. Good information, thanks a lot! I was wondering what I was going to do when I was presented with that situation. I think 2.5 will be fine for the wife's car. :D
Brendan
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Yes, the Garrett T3 is really a "T31" outlet flange.
That is the magical piece of info I was looking for!
There are not too many folks making flanges for this,
but they are out there!
-Brad
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Now i´ve got them.
2.5 inch exhaustflange.
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll222/Savarturbo/P1000007.jpg)
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll222/Savarturbo/P1000008.jpg)
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll222/Savarturbo/P1000010.jpg)
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll222/Savarturbo/P1000009.jpg)