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General Information => Troubleshooting => Topic started by: bvolks73 on November 21, 2008, 08:57:18 pm
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The alternator belt on my brother's 90 TD Jetta (with AC and power steering) was squealing so he replaced it (along with all the other belts) but the new one is beginning to squeal already. It's tightened to it's limit but it still too loose. Is there anything else a person can do to tighten it more or is a slightly shorter belt the only solution?
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I'd put money on there being a broken or missing a/c compressor mount bolt - most likely the one on the belts side, as opposed to the transmission side. There should be two 8mm allen bolts holding the compressor to the bracket, which act like a hinge as you tighten the compressor tensioner.
Take the air cleaner housing assembly out to give yourself some room to work.
Slack off the alternator tensioner to get the belt off the alt pulley, then unbolt the alternator and move it out of the way. You should be able to see whats happening now. The crank/compressor/waterpump belt gets in the way of dealing with the belts side allen bolt, so slack off the compressor and get the belt out of the way if you have to replace a lost or broken bolt. I find the wrecker is the most probable place to find replacements bolts. You can try a standard 6-point metric bolt but its very hard to get a socket to sit square on the bolt head because of compressor pulley interference.
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IF the A/c Belt is too loose it also makes it so the alternator belt wont go tight enough...(A/C belt tension is maxed, makes the Alternator start off already loose) I'd suggest replacing the a/c belt if it appears loose and the A/c is at its max adjustment...
I'm having a hell of a time keeping these damn belts tight on my car :X its like a never ending adjustment process.
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Thanks for the help. I'm going to pull the alternator again and have a look at the AC pump. We just had all that stuff off when he put the new belts on so it should come off fairly easily. If I recall correctly there was something odd about one of the AC bolts but I never thought anything of it at the time.
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You should also make sure the pulleys are clean and rust-free. On the alt pulley, they are sometimes made of stamped metal that is prone to rust and pit. When that happens, it will eat away at the side of the belt, making it slip further into the pulley and eat away even more.
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i bought a CONTI belt for mine, and when i tried to put it on, it was loose, even at the end of the adjustment... i think it was the wrong belt... i even tried drilling a new hole in the alternator bracket arm up top... still not enough! so i went to cdn tire and brought my old belt with me.. sure enough they had the right belt! installed it and voila! i had to adjust the tensioner wayyyy back. 8)
even OEM parts have their issues :roll: although the CONTI belt i bought for the a/c-crank-wp was much shorter than what was on before, and always requires me to jump it on with some sort of tool, it does work nice.
doesn't take long messing with these V-belts to make a person want to switch to serpentine though!!! :lol:
oh and by the way... my advice is to NOT REMOVE THE AC PUMP!!! i did that by accident once, and getting the bolts to align to re-install it was extremely difficult (had to use one of those pointy tools... forget what they're called.. and there isn't much room to play with on the belt side!!)... you might have an easier time, but you don't need to remove it, therefore possibly saving you time/agony/pain/suffering, etc. :lol: just loosen the bolts, and use the adjustment to loosen/tension the belt.
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My brother went to Canadian Tire last night to try to find a shorter belt and this time the guy said there were 2 belts listed for the car and he must have got the longer one the first time. Hopefully that fixes the problem.
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I had the same problems with a Napa gold belt, and went to a size that was 1 inch shorter. It was a tight fit but now is working great!!!
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:evil: The new "alternator" belt from Canadian Tire was way too long and way too wide. I think we have the right alternator belt but the problem is with the AC belt being too long. Does anyone have a number for an AC belt on a 90 Jetta TD with power steering?
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:evil: The new "alternator" belt from Canadian Tire was way too long and way too wide. I think we have the right alternator belt but the problem is with the AC belt being too long. Does anyone have a number for an AC belt on a 90 Jetta TD with power steering?
the canadian tire belt for the a/c was too long on my car too... the CONTI belt i bought for it was so short that i have to use a screwdriver (or something thin) and turn the crank just to get it on. eventually i think it will stretch out, but my 1.6 is out, and a 1.9 mTDI is going in :twisted: so i'll never know
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Also check the alternator belt tensioner. My belt would squeal all the time until I noticed that the tensioner bearing was shot. A new sealed bearing solved the squeal.
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Stupid suggestion, but why not just get shorter belts?
My GTD had tension issues and the only way i could stop it squealing was to use smaller belts, which meant i didnt need to use all the adjustment i had available.
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Stick with the Continental belts.
Yes, a little tight to get on, initially. But, once on....for the most part....no problems and long service life.
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Bought a conti-tech AC belt from the local VW place and it went on a little hard but worked and had plenty of room for adjustment. The alternator belt was still a bit too loose so he's just going to buy one a bit shorter. Unfortunately the new AC belt snapped within 15 miles and it definitely was not because it was adjusted too tight.
This is getting really old and frustrating. I'm thinking about getting rid of the AC compressor since we have several non AC motors to get pullies and whatever else we need off of.
We just got done putting it back together after painting it last night so at least it makes a good looking yard ornament since it doesn't look like he's ever going to be able to drive it. :roll:
(http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/510782.jpg)
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Look at the pulleys, i bet they're worn, so a brand new belt won't make full contact in the V. And the other probably snapped cause it was too tight, it doesn't really take THAT much to get everything proper if the pulleys aren't worn.
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Finally got it back together and properly adjusted today. Amazing how easy it is when they finally give you the right belts. At least the weather was nice while we were putting it back together. :roll:
(http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/513283.jpg)
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Today, I just did this job on a 1991 Jetta ECOdiesel (TD).
A couple of impressions:
1) Take the intake box off: makes life a lot easier.
2) The book calls for a 10X 695 mm belt. If you use that belt, it will have very little in the way of adjustment down the road. I managed to squeak a 10 x 675 on there with some clever movement of the idler pulley. A 10 x 685 might be the perfect compromise: easy to get on, and plenty of room for adjustment.
3) The car I worked on belonged to a customer. I sold her the car a year and a half ago. Before I sold it, I put on all new belts. She's come in from time-to-time for minor repairs. I've noticed that the alt belt was always loose, even after I had adjusted it during each prior visit. In the end, the belt lasted only about 12,000 miles before it snapped off completely. Inspection of the ***ty stamped-pulley showed SERIOUS pitting of the belt surface. As I noted earlier, this is what caused premature belt wear. Luckily, I had a spare alterntator with a good pulley on it, so I swapped it. We'll see how it goes.
It is my contention that if anyone out there is eating alternator belts on a MK2 car, there's a 99.99% chance your pulley is pitted and eating the belt.
If you need a NEW pulley, only the dealer has it (and, I called my local dealership and they claimed that they were still available).
Here's the PN for a new pulley: 035-903-119
Cost is about $40-60.
To the OP, hope yours works out.
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The alternator belt is working out ok but the AC belts are not. We've put 2 on it within a couple hundred kms and are having trouble again. The first one broke within 50 kms for no apparent reason. We looked everything over and didn't see any problems so we put another one on and it was fine for a few days but today it started squealing and just can't be tightened enough. It doesn't make any sense because when we put it on it was so tight that we had to force it over the AC pulley and now it's so loose that it's flopping even when the tensioner is maxed out. I don't understand why they're wearing so quickly. The pulleys look fine to me and don't sem to be rusty or pitted. This is getting pretty frustrating considering it's been around -30C for the last few days.
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The alternator belt is working out ok but the AC belts are not. We've put 2 on it within a couple hundred kms and are having trouble again. The first one broke within 50 kms for no apparent reason. We looked everything over and didn't see any problems so we put another one on and it was fine for a few days but today it started squealing and just can't be tightened enough. It doesn't make any sense because when we put it on it was so tight that we had to force it over the AC pulley and now it's so loose that it's flopping even when the tensioner is maxed out. I don't understand why they're wearing so quickly. The pulleys look fine to me and don't sem to be rusty or pitted. This is getting pretty frustrating considering it's been around -30C for the last few days.
i had the same problem.. the main large belt (goes from crank, wp, a/c) was very tight... needed to 'jump' it on. i went to Canadian Tire and bought one of their cheapie belts. worked like a charm!!! try that.
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I think I have it figured out. I spoke to my mechanic last night and he said the belt will wear out quickly if the double pulley on the water pump is stuck (which it is) and the power steering is hooked up. That's probably why the power steering belt was disconnected when he bought the car. He recommended trying it for a while with no power steering belt and if it doesn't ruin the AC belt to get rid of the double pulley on the water pump and run a shorter belt to the power steering.
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Ok, now I'm stumped. Does anyone have any pics/ diagrams of the belt setup on a 1990 Jetta TD with AC and PS ? My mechanic claims it should have a freewheeling pulley on the water pump that acts like an idler for the AC belt but I see no mention of it anywhere else. He claims that if there is no freewheeling pulley then the PS belt should only run from the crank pulley to the PS pump, not around the water pump too. The way this one was setup when we got it had the water pump driven by both the AC and PS belts, which doesn't seem right to me. HELP!
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Your mechanic is right. At least on the American 1990 TD (or ECOdiesel) the water pump had a free-clutched water pump pulley. It is similar to the design used on the 1985-1992 gas cars, but is smaller in diameter.
Here's the PN for the one used on the 1991-1992 ECOdiesel (should be the same for yours):
068 121 028
For reference, the gasser one looks similar and is PN: 027 121 028
If you need an image, go to www.vagcat.com. You'll need to sign up for an account before you can view images.
Having said that, it sounds like the PO took off the PS belt because of the stuck free-clutch pulley. It's a dealer only item, and is not cheap ($170 at 1stvwparts.com!)
You might be able to free yours up. They simply delaminate n(i.e. pry it apart) and you might be able to clean up the internals. But IIRC, there is a plastic liner in there that can tear. If that happens, then you need to replace the whole unit.
Good luck.
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Unfortunately the free clutched pulley is gone. It now has 2 separate pulleys on the water pump. I even tried the gasser one I have with a longer belt but it wouldn't clear the crank pulley. I know now why the PO was running it with the power steering belt off.