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General Information => Troubleshooting => Topic started by: jasonsansfleece on November 16, 2008, 05:44:47 pm
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I now have 8000 on a totally rebuilt 1.6 TD and she's still using a lot of oil (hi to low on the dipstick) between fill ups at the diesel pump.
I have quite a lot of blow by (how do you quantify it?) There is a small K&N filter on my breather catch can that gets saturated. There is always a smell of unburnt oil around the car.
Compression test looks like 390, 400, 410, 400.
I have changed the valve stem seals with no change in consumption.
I think it is the bores. Assuming that the machine work was done correctly (I didn't measure tolerances after the work was done, but gave them my Bentley and discussed the .1 mm clearance) Then was the failure in my "running in" process. I was "aggressive".
If I lift the head, what might i find? Could there be some kind of burnt oil glaze on the bores, preventing the rings from sealing?
Would a re-hone and a new set of rings do the job if the bore/piston tolerances were okay?
Please send words of encouragement.
sincerely
Guy
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did you use synthetic during the break in?
also, what did you do to break the car in?
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Used regular Rotela 15w-40.
For running in the style was constantly varying speed with bursts of WOT, for a few seconds only. It was much easier to generate high EGT when the motor was tight. Could EGT's of 1500* even if just for an instant in that first 1000 miles have been detrimental to a proper running in?
Guy
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did you do the burst of full throttle when the engine was at max operating temp???
the full throttle does help load the rings, which is what you want... and the varying speeds help seat them as well. your break in could still take a little while to be fully done...
just new rings took me about 15,000km to 'seat' (oil consumption went down significantly)
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How was the clearance's on the Valve stem guides?
I just did rings on mine as well but I used Total Seal Rings.
As per Total seal it could take up to 15000 miles for total break in.
They recomended keeping the boost below 10psi for the first 1500 miles then 15 psi till 5000 miles then normal driving after that.
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You know, I just had this conversation with a (new to me) vw mech I found. This guy has a good rep and a no bullsh*t way about him, so I like him :)
He was pressing in some control arm bushings for me (my thumbs aren't what they ysed to be :D and while we were chatting we brought up the usual oil consumption problem on the turbos...in his experience (I've always had NA's) it's the rings. Sometimes they're just stuck, but not always...
Andy
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So at 8000 miles the rings might not yet be fully seated.
I should try to be patient and not go pulling the head and looking inside. Its going to be hard though because I cant help but feel something is not right.
The valve stems/guides where well within spec for the inlets. The exhaust had new valves and guides.
What conclusions can be drawn from the compression test results?
I'm confident in the valve seats and HG.
What might be a mileage where I could say if consumption is not down then its "off with its head!"
Despite all of the above its a great car. An 85 Golf, K14 turbo, intercooled, ports cleaned up and matched, Performance Diesel pump, ACH transmission.
It goes and gets mileage!
Any other sugestions other than patience?
Guy
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Well I had ring issues at 8k but my and gaps were WAY off and I was running a 10mm pump with NO fuel cut out and some Big Ass injectors. Anyway, I carboned up the rings and ate a turbo. Ended up with a broken Ring land on #3 but the damn thing still ran fine.
when I broke it down the second ring was stuck in its grove on the 3 pistons that didn't have a broken land.
Moral of the story? No idea. Just run it for a while yet to make sure your not tearing it apart for no reason.
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My 2 euro cents: I'd give it some more time before tearing the engine apart.
We put a refurbished 300.000 miles JR engine on a friend's mk1 golf, and it burned lots of oil (nicknamed the deep fryer), and after many miles (about 10.000), it all settled down, and now runs great.
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What are proper break in procedure?
easy on the pedal till its up to temp - accelerating then letting off the pedal and letting it brake by it's self, then 1 hard pull once it's hot and up to temp
then as much as 15,000 km of gentle driving till the rings seat?
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- accelerating then letting off the pedal and letting it brake by it's self,
Probably a good idea on petrol/gas engines as vacuum would haul oil up into the rings, not so sure about diesels though. Anybody got any good ideas? :?
http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
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Oh hell..
I don't have time right now so I'll try to remember to do something Monday when I'm back at work.
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i think just varying engine rpm's for the most part is the best advice... stay away from constant rpm's!
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Thanks Mates! :D
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Piston to cylinder clearance [for 1588cc jx engine] should be .03mm...ware limit .07mm so .1 seems a bit large!.
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I think 1500* is kinda high since there is extra friction in there with the honed cylinders and new rings.
I reringed mine in '05, had some pitting on one cyl wall but put it together anyways, it never burned any oil and I only drove breakin style a couple weeks. Hope you can figure it out. :)
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OK,
Here's a couple of thoughts, think about a lesser quality oil for the next 3000 miles. It will still be fine for the bearings, bit maybe a little less protection for the cyl walls. Second, think about water injection, reason being the cleaning effect of the H2O might help the rings if their carboned up. I understand that biodiesel has some cleaning effect also.
-JB
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Good idea on the junkier oil.
Ps. actually I reringed in '06, mustuv slipped my mind. :roll:
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i'm in the process of reringing with prothe's 9$ ring sets. I'm probably going to have to re-ring in six months :roll:
on a car that doesn't get driven might i add :lol:
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i'm in the process of reringing with prothe's 9$ ring sets. I'm probably going to have to re-ring in six months :roll:
on a car that doesn't get driven might i add :lol:
That's only if they don't all just snap in half just putting them on the piston the first go around with them :lol:
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HAR HAR!
You've been following my perilous battle with breaking oil rings!!!
I finally managed to not break the last one :roll: