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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: truckinwagen on November 14, 2008, 02:37:27 pm
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does anyone know the specs on the 1.6 IDI rods?
I am looking at getting a set of heavier duty ones, but need to know the specs on the stock ones first.
thanks in advance.
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You are getting them custom built? If you are you should post up a group buy cuz I'm sure other people would want some.
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no, but I found lots of places selling rods that have the right big end and bushing in various lengths for other applications, and I was trying to figure out if they could be made to work on our motors.
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136/50,6/24mm. Pauter has made 1,6 IDI rods before.
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yeah, I found some by them, but not available to ship to the US, so I am looking at other sources.
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I found some aftermarket rods for the 1.6 on ebay, not too shabby a price either.
what do you guys think?
http://cgi.ebay.com/VW-Golf-Turbo-Diesel-1-6L-Connecting-Rods-Conrod-Pleuel_W0QQitemZ170111884888QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item170111884888&_trksid=p3286.m63.l1177
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Woah, that is a good price!
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I would like some feedback before buying though. But then, there's not a big change they are worse than the stock items which are extremely weak...
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Well, what I mean by weakness is of course in relation to other engines. A 100 hp engine out of a Saab 900, for example - the stock bottom end can easily take 500-600 hp. The TD engine has rods that will bend soon after double original output, while many other engines can handle several times the original. And if the VW engine originally did only make 70 hp, that's not to say it's enough by any means. Why would we be playing around with loving and upgrading these cars if they were perfect just the way they left the factory??
To achieve good performance in today's sense, of course the original output needs to be multiplied. It's not so much a question how much you need to improve the original output, it about how many absolute horsepower you need. The 1.6 TD engine is still an economical way of propelling a classic mk2 VW, when compared to a highly tuned gas turbo engine. But we can't help a mk2 needs at least double of the TD's original power in order to be quick in the real world. Now, why on earth would we all be tuning these diesel engines if that wasn't the case?
Furthermore, it is very rare that a 4-cylinder automotive engine has con-rods that can't handle 200 hp. In fact, I haven't found any other such case than the VW 1.6 TD. This is why, in my humble opinion, I consider them to be weak. This is not to say the engine is bad, or weak, but it definetely has weak spots which need to be improved.
And, improvement is exactly what it's all about building and modifying these old cars.
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OK, let's therefore conclude that it's silly to try to press boundaries :)
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I completely understand your point.
My original statement was just to point out that in relation to most engines, the VW TD engine doesn't have as much "reserve". Diesel or no diesel, most engines can take more than double their original output and not fail.
And we have to keep in mind that people have bent rods with 150 hp too. It's the torque with VNT turbos that's more often the real problem, not so much the ultimate horsepower.
But as the TD's in so many other ways a nice platform to play with - simple, economical yet versatile, I find it an interesting challenge to power tune.
I believe that's why there are so many of us here too :)
As for what's fun, I find no interest in making a 300 hp gas turbo out of, say 1.8 16V - that would just be way too easy! I would end up trying to make 500 hp and break every part in the process...
Why I made the 'silly' decision and started with a 1.6 TD? Well, I think it was the best option really. Sports car humbling performance (when running, say, 200 hp) with 50 MPG and one single wire to keep the engine running. Cheap and plentiful parts, no electric hassles and a combination of economy and performance. That's a rare thing.
And it's not like I could have fitted a 6.0 TDI on the Jetta anyway
:P
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the reason I brought this up is because I am a vw freak as well as a diesel nut. I hate the way cars have become more computers than transportation and therefore love older cars.
so I am left with the early vw diesels to quench all my thirsts.
I like to have a fast car, but have to drive it daily, so I am looking into solving problems before they arise.
this is why I am looking into headstuds, better rods and a main girdle.
the diesel motors are scarse enough in Alaska to make it worth spending time and money keeping my existing block and head alive rather than swapping in a new one when I bend a rod, blow a main bearing, or warp the head.
I thought the find for reasonably priced aftermarket rods quite cool, and I hope others agree that when rods get bent this might be a good alternative to finding stock ones for almost as much(at least up here)
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I found some aftermarket rods for the 1.6 on ebay, not too shabby a price either.
what do you guys think?
http://cgi.ebay.com/VW-Golf-Turbo-Diesel-1-6L-Connecting-Rods-Conrod-Pleuel_W0QQitemZ170111884888QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item170111884888&_trksid=p3286.m63.l1177
looks like other Chinese stuff...
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if you were to buy an $800 set of carrillo vw rods the big end bore is
1.9928" or 50.617mm
http://www.carrilloind.com/Portals/1/Documents/Carrillo_Catalog_Layout_02.pdf
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I noticed the add said three available - ? - does that mean three each or three sets of four? I sure would not want to buy just three at that price!
What do you think?
Steve
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I found some aftermarket rods for the 1.6 on ebay, not too shabby a price either.
what do you guys think?
http://cgi.ebay.com/VW-Golf-Turbo-Diesel-1-6L-Connecting-Rods-Conrod-Pleuel_W0QQitemZ170111884888QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item170111884888&_trksid=p3286.m63.l1177
looks like other Chinese stuff...
no not Chinese i grew up near that area and that all industrial business in that area! all made in house right there! pretty sure!
Duane
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I noticed the add said three available - ? - does that mean three each or three sets of four? I sure would not want to buy just three at that price!
What do you think?
Steve
I would definitely email him and confirm not just that, but also the rest of the dimensions of the rods as only the length is listed on his ebay page.
but a great alternative to pauter if they are the right ones
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Nice looking for sure.
$360 ish doesn't sound to bad for a price I suppose.
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The price is for 4. It says right on the page - "Quatity: 4 pcs".
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Now if they only replied to the emails...
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no kidding, I am hoping to get a reply soon so I can decide whether or not to buy a set, I need to make my decision soonish too.
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You could improve your stock connecting rods like this:
Polished and shot peened
(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff120/subsonic44/DSCN0361.jpg)[/quote]
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but what kind of improvement will that really provide?
I am looking for a much more robust rod as my goal is low end power where the rods are really stressed.
I will probably end up with the stock rods for a while, but I want a stronger alternative for when I bend them (and I will bend them!)
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By eliminating ridges and rough spots you reduce the chances of a stress-point developing resulting in a stress fracture or breaking point. Shot-peening hardens the surface (if done right) and further prevents cracks and breaks.
Cheap way to help out.
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...but probably not much help against bending the rods.
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By eliminating ridges and rough spots you reduce the chances of a stress-point developing resulting in a stress fracture or breaking point. Shot-peening hardens the surface (if done right) and further prevents cracks and breaks.
Cheap way to help out.
You hit it right on the head. The peaks are called "stress raisers" in the aviation world. That's why when I drilled my place steel for my turbo flanges, I removed the raisers the drill bit made, because the stress raiser can cause a crack to form. Polishing results in these peaks and valleys being eliminated - the stress and loads being evenly distributed along the part much more equally.
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You could improve your stock connecting rods like this:
Polished and shot peened
(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff120/subsonic44/DSCN0361.jpg)
[/quote]
Those look sexy for stock rods.!! :shock:
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You could improve your stock connecting rods like this:
Polished and shot peened
(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff120/subsonic44/DSCN0361.jpg)
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didnt you pay well over $500 for that??
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You could improve your stock connecting rods like this:
Polished and shot peened
(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff120/subsonic44/DSCN0361.jpg)
didnt you pay well over $500 for that??[/quote]
I recall around $30/rod from one of his threads....
it was $500 for the entire machining?
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Getting the work done on the rods:
22.00 each for polishing.
9.50 each for shot peening.
6.50 each to magnaflux.
90.00 for new ARP con-rod bolts.
20.00 for new con-rod bearings.
10.00 for new wrist pin bushings.
So now I'm up to 272.00
Resizing the big end would be about 16.00 each. I get the good buddy discount so I don't need to cover that, but if I did, I would be up to
356.00
You could polish the rods yourself and just bring them to get shot peened.
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i wonder if the "H" beam rods from Alhambra rod factory would still be better? it's about the same price! $366.84 seems like a lot less hassle?
Duane