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General Information => General => Topic started by: AudiVWguy on November 10, 2008, 04:41:19 pm
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I installed this injection system on my Caddy a while back and I thought I would share it with you. I started looking at the junk yard for the most powerful windshield washer pump I could find. What I found was the old Toyota Cressida pump puts out over 40psi. Nothing else came close. Next I found a washer fluid container that would fit next to my existing one. I can't remember if it was Subaru or Mitsubishi, but it had an extra molded hole for two of the cressida pumps and it sat low enough so I wouldn't need a stop solenoid so the vacuum wouldn't be sucked in at speed. Next I ordered 40psi spray nozzles from McMaster Carr. I'm currently using the 3.19 GPH nozzle and I will order the next 2 sizes up.
Using a G60 manifold the perfect place was to use the fitting that goes between the throttle body and the intake hose. On the bottom I welded a plate to mount the nozzel.
This setup sprays perfectly into the intake manifold. The 50/50 mix of methanol and distilled water cools the intake air even more and provides a catalyst for a more complete burn of the fuel.(According to the companys suppling systems for the Dodges and Fords) My EGT's at full throttle have dropped a little over 100 degrees at full throttle. I think a little larger nozzle and I will have it dialed in. My butt dyno can feel a difference! :twisted:
(http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh177/AudiVWguy/IMG_2122.jpg)
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Trying to put in pictures.(http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh177/AudiVWguy/IMG_1653.jpg)
(http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh177/AudiVWguy/IMG_1652.jpg)
(http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh177/AudiVWguy/IMG_1651.jpg)
(http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh177/AudiVWguy/IMG_1649.jpg)
(http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh177/AudiVWguy/IMG_1648.jpg)
(http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh177/AudiVWguy/IMG_1639.jpg)
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Hey that's pretty cool. Do you have it ran through a Hobbs switch to come on at a certain boost pressure?
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Yes I did, forgot to mention it. Set at 5psi for now.
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what size is that spraying in the picture?(nozzle)Nice setup.Im collecting parts for the same.Ive got a mk1 cabrio bottle and pump that seems to work well.the cabbys bottle is tiny probably half the size of mk2s.I think i need a bigger pump though,maybe not.The vw pumps last forever when used properly for the windshield.What year creseda?
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The nozzle is 3.19 GPH (gal per hour) I think I gonna order 2-3 sizes larger till the engine bogs and then backoff. I don't know what year Creseda, but I couldn't find a matching part number from other Toyota models. I would buy some nozzles first and see how they spray. Maybe there are a lot of choices that will spray fine.
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whoa crazy! that won't break rods?
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with my experimentation with mine, it increases the idle when sprayed in... yes i've sprayed it at idle, although i probably shouldn't :shock:
but only one short spray... its really neat how the idle boosts by about 300-500 rpm and i can also hear a bit more clatter... probably because water can't be compressed :lol:
i wouldn't doubt that water injection could break rods... but you would need a LOT of flow if you were running more than 10 psi boost.
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Some systems have multiple injectors because at 1500rpm it might be a little too much, whereas at 3500rpm it isn't enough. I'm going to keep it simple to do its job at full throttle passing responses.
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Is no one worried about trying to compress water here? You guys are nuts
Too much water = some intense hydro locking would it not? 8)
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Is no one worried about trying to compress water here? You guys are nuts
Too much water = some intense hydro locking would it not? 8)
I was just thinking the same thing. Why water/methanol? Do you have to run the two together?
Nice build by the way!
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I talked to some of the manufactures of existing systems and they said the engine will start to bog when there's too much liquid. To be safe start with a choice of nozzles and have them come on at a higher boost level (10-12psi) after you have chose a nozzle, start lowering the pressure switch to see the lowest psi without bog. The lower the engine rpm, the more liquid is going in the cylinder. Or you could think of it in terms of air velocity going past the nozzle.
They were saying the reason for the mix is because the methanol becomes a catalyst to increase the fuel burn efficiency.
-JB
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The compression is so hot that it will vaporize immediately in the cylinder(creating steam and pressure as it switches to gas)It also cleans the chamber.Have you ever cleaned a cut with alcohol?It gets quite cold,right?The meth cools the charge way down.Therefore giving us more power!!In a gasser the methanol is used to increase octane to decrease detonation and keep time, in a diesel its just for cooling.
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I've been thinking about this setup for myself for a while, van has perfect meth tank for rear washer. Just for climbing the Malahat... One thing I was thinking tho, if you're running a 40 psi pump, the differential pressure under boost may not atomize your spray very well, especially if your in the 20+psi boost range. Lots of meth systems seem to favor 100+psi pumps.
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Just need to find a good place to get the pumps without having to sell a kidney in the process.
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I realize that 40 psi is on the low side for what I'm doing, I'm gonna see what it looks like with a leaf blower hooked up. I can simulate air velocity, but not a pressurized system. If you come up with any ideas let me know.
-JB
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I think just 100+psi pump? There is some really good info on this site...
http://www.turbomirage.com/water.html
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Just need to find a good place to get the pumps without having to sell a kidney in the process.
Why does it have to be such high pressure?
If its getting vapourized anyways what difference does it make.
a beefy windshield washer pump out of a junk yard. There you go?
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Just need to find a good place to get the pumps without having to sell a kidney in the process.
Why does it have to be such high pressure?
If its getting vapourized anyways what difference does it make.
a beefy windshield washer pump out of a junk yard. There you go?
you need to have at least more than 20 psi to overcome the boost pressure, but mostly you need the pressure to atomize the water. the fine mist will vaporize almost instantaneously with the right temp :) the higher the pressure, the finer the mist, and the better the vaporization. (to a point of course...)
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I went put and looked at the set-up on the Audi, it has a Shurflo pump. Couldn't see a model number. Northern Tool has a 60psi version for $52.00, not too bad. Some of the other models didn't give pressure specs, you could probably call them or Shurflo. 8)
-JB
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I called Shurflo (1-800-854-3218) and talked to them. They have a number of pumps. There are two kinds, shut off and by-pass. The shut off kind will will "shut off" when it reaches its rated psi. The by-pass kind will continue to run at its rated psi. But the guy at Shurflo said if you don't hook up the wire that shuts off the pump (when it reaches its rated psi) it will run like a by-pass type. I told him that the pump would be running about 30 sec at a time and if there would be any pump damage and he said no. I ask this cause the by-pass type are a little more expensive.
Here are some models that will work:
8000-543-220 (60psi by-pass)
8000-941-260 (100psi by-pass)
8000-541-236 (60psi not by-pass)
Places I looked at:
Northern Tool 1-800-221-0516
System Accessories 1-877-917-1199
Right now Northern Tool has a sale on the 8000-541-236 at $52.00. McMaster Carr has the 40psi misting nozzles that can run at 60 or 100psi, their out put increases with the pump pressure increase. You will still have to buy a few and experiment. The only parts left would be a pressure switch and a selinoid to stop the liquid from being sucked in when it's not on.
Cheers,
-JB
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Somebody stated a cheap solution to it earlier, but never followed up on it :) The key word was pressure differential. What I have done in the past on simple systems, was run a pipe from the water tank to the inlet manifold so the tank is referenced at manifold pressure. So if the inlet is at 30psi, so will the water behind the pump, meaning it can still 'add' 40psi worth of pressure regardless :) Just make sure everything is sealed up tight and able to withstand the pressure tho! I used to use aluminum tanks, and it worked a treat!
-Gavin