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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: monomer on November 05, 2008, 02:30:03 pm
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I plan on doing a decent sized TD build. Is the Stock cooler gonna handle it? I've been eying a few air-air models, but I see no-one else running them
I know, it does need to get upto temp - I just dont wanna cook anything.
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air-air ? Do you really mean air-oil cooler ? I have a water-oil cooler and have had an air-oil.
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I think the stocker is about worthless.
I mean I'm sure it does something but it's just to small to do much good.
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Many people with tuned TDs have air cores for oil cooling, me included.
Just make sure your adapter plate has a thermostat.
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I just installed an oil cooler for my build. Its actually a tranny cooler. picked it up at the local parts place for $20 with the line and such. just mounted it to the front of the radiator. only about 8"l x 5"h x 3/4" t.
Might be a good option for you as well.
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Many people with tuned TDs have air cores for oil cooling, me included.
Just make sure your adapter plate has a thermostat.
What kind, or temp, or what??? Thermostat for the oil cooler. How would you plumb that or is there oil ones or built into the stock one.
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This (http://www.perma-cool.com/Catalog/Cat_page14.html) is what they are talking about. My experience on submarines is that lube oil supply to the bearings should be kept between 180F and 200F. That temp range is optimal for cooling, pumping, and lubrication. Any cooler and it's harder to pump the oil through the system and you can have an excessive temperature rise across the bearings and any hotter and you won't remove enough heat from the bearings which risks a wiped bearing. Trust me when I say that wiping a bearing on a 25K shaft Hp turbine is not fun. The bearing half shells were about a foot and a half in diameter and about 3 inches thick.
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I have a fairly large one i need to find hoses and a way of tapping it into the stock system. I don't want to fuss with removing the stock cooler it seems like a real hassle because of the filter being on there too.
I have a cooler that looks identical to this
(http://members.rennlist.com/rickster72t/oil%20cooler%20marking.jpg)
without those ends though. The hoses were cut. I have two banjo fittings though for both ends.
Where do you tap into the oil system and do you need pump upgrades or anything to deal with the huge volume increase?
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Brilliant. Makes perfect sense to me now. Wonder how to plumb one in though? Some return, pressure sender, out of the head somewhere? Just wondering.
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I meant air-oil...
I'm curious as to the plumbing.
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You need to eliminate the factory one and get a sandwich adapter to get the fittings needed to run to the cooler.
You can NOT pull it from the head or even from the oil filter mount (top).
It needs to come from between the filter and the mount.
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I have a fairly large one i need to find hoses and a way of tapping it into the stock system. I don't want to fuss with removing the stock cooler it seems like a real hassle because of the filter being on there too.
I have a cooler that looks identical to this
(http://members.rennlist.com/rickster72t/oil%20cooler%20marking.jpg)
without those ends though. The hoses were cut. I have two banjo fittings though for both ends.
Where do you tap into the oil system and do you need pump upgrades or anything to deal with the huge volume increase?
ahh man thats the cooler i been looking for!
anybody know who carries those?
or Ed you wanna sell yours?
Duane
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You need to eliminate the factory one and get a sandwich adapter to get the fittings needed to run to the cooler.
You can NOT pull it from the head or even from the oil filter mount (top).
It needs to come from between the filter and the mount.
Is it hard to do?
Duane, my cooler needs a solvent bath. It's filled with oil and who knows what all else. I got it for free. I don't even know if it holds oil.
I think i will need a cooler with my build so ...
But hey, if you throw me an offer. I'll let you know if it leaks or not as soon as i test it. Pm me with an offer for it if it were to work.
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You need to eliminate the factory one and get a sandwich adapter to get the fittings needed to run to the cooler.
You can NOT pull it from the head or even from the oil filter mount (top).
It needs to come from between the filter and the mount.
Is it hard to do?
Duane, my cooler needs a solvent bath. It's filled with oil and who knows what all else. I got it for free. I don't even know if it holds oil.
I think i will need a cooler with my build so ...
But hey, if you throw me an offer. I'll let you know if it leaks or not as soon as i test it. Pm me with an offer for it if it were to work.
you can do it without eliminating the factory oil cooler. it does have its place... it helps to warm up the engine and even out the temps in the motor. the air/oil cooler will really help with keeping the turbo cool in the summer, but it does need air flow!
what you could do, is use the extra ports on the oil filter flange...
This might give you some ideas... here is the 5 cyl setup with an air/oil cooler:
(http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/9301/5cylcoolerlo5.jpg)
and here is the 1.6TD oil/coolant setup.
(http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/7227/4cylcoolerep5.jpg)
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I guess what I was wondering is even with a sandwhich style how do you run the oil. Is it pressured into the cooler? Or is it return from the engine? Or is it just install and hook lines up to the sandwhich and go eat lunch and not worry?
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Here's a link that shows a thermostat-equipped sandwhich plate:
http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/product/2972/Mocal_Sandwich_Plate
You just put it where the water/oil thingy originally was.
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aw i wish that wasn't 100 bucks :(
maybe i could find one at a scrap yard! there are tons of wrecked ricers there! but none that would mount a filter that large though?
or is that sandwich thing pretty universal?
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Saab Turbo cars have Engine oil coolers with those thermostatic plates.
I got mine from a PnP for like $25.00.
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You need to eliminate the factory one and get a sandwich adapter to get the fittings needed to run to the cooler.
You can NOT pull it from the head or even from the oil filter mount (top).
It needs to come from between the filter and the mount.
Is it hard to do?
Duane, my cooler needs a solvent bath. It's filled with oil and who knows what all else. I got it for free. I don't even know if it holds oil.
I think i will need a cooler with my build so ...
But hey, if you throw me an offer. I'll let you know if it leaks or not as soon as i test it. Pm me with an offer for it if it were to work.
smoke ,
if it looks just like that one! i'll give you 20bucks +ship for it?
i have another one that just uses a rubber hose and hose clamps!
but i want to use my fittings that i have with the sandwich plate and the stainless braided hose i have! we can do a partial trade or something with the one i got?
Duane
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Saab Turbo cars have Engine oil coolers with those thermostatic plates.
I got mine from a PnP for like $25.00.
Turbo Volvos as well... direct bolt-on, comes with nice long hoses, and is usually dirt cheap at PnP... I grab the thermostat plates if nothing else and they usually give me them for free if there is other stuff in the pile they already know the codes for... :wink:
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Sorry Duane, for 20$ I'm going to keep it.
I need one anyways.
It was a real fluke that i got it.
I'm not sure what you guys are talkign about with the volvos and saabs i wish my local junk yard had more exotic cars. Its like 90% neons and corolla's.
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Sorry Duane, for 20$ I'm going to keep it.
I need one anyways.
It was a real fluke that i got it.
I'm not sure what you guys are talkign about with the volvos and saabs i wish my local junk yard had more exotic cars. Its like 90% neons and corolla's.
well you said make an offer? what you have in mind ?
my earls cooler i don't like because the in/out is not on the same side! i want whats like in that pic. you posted! c;mon work with me here?
just one of those fittings are 25bucks! i've got 350bucks just in my fittings,braided hose,thermal sandwich plate! but just have not found the right cooler for my application ?
Duane
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aw i wish that wasn't 100 bucks Sad
For once we are better off...
Mocal SP1T
About £40 here, in fact the non-thermo one (SP1) I have fitted was £25...
Can send one over... if you wanna Paypal us + shipping
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Sorry Duane, for 20$ I'm going to keep it.
I need one anyways.
It was a real fluke that i got it.
I'm not sure what you guys are talkign about with the volvos and saabs i wish my local junk yard had more exotic cars. Its like 90% neons and corolla's.
well you said make an offer? what you have in mind ?
my earls cooler i don't like because the in/out is not on the same side! i want whats like in that pic. you posted! c;mon work with me here?
just one of those fittings are 25bucks! i've got 350bucks just in my fittings,braided hose,thermal sandwich plate! but just have not found the right cooler for my application ?
Duane
That really sucks.
how did you accumulate that insane cost in fittings? that's a lot of money.
Again, i don't even know if it holds oil.
I'll get a pic up in a bit here so you can see. It's not exactly that cooler but very similar
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..isn't eBay full of them??
PS> Easy to get 'done' on fittings by 'posh' shops... they don't seem to realise 80 psi would be max, not 800bar !!!
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800 bar!!!!!!
yeah i don't think the fittings need to be that high end. our pumps run at 2bar oil pressure i believe.
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well i'm sure you heard the term a fool and his money will soon depart!
as i walk in a local speed shop here in town!
retail on them is expensive!
if it leaks and the hole is accessible i can weld it !
but yea i'll look on flea-bay again i never found what i wanted till i seen that pic. of one Eddy posted
Duane
please show me yours Ed!
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Used unreinforced hoses on mine, cheap, cheerful but limited bend radius before they kink, pump up nicely when the engine starts though, sort of acts like an accumulator :)
2bar oil pressure i believe
4 bar about (60 psi) and if pickup by-pass valve jams (not un-common) about 120~140 psi
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Thank you Mr.Harry Mann for correcting me and that piece of info
please show me yours Ed!
Oh my, what is this turning into Duane?
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f279/edmcclung/SSPX0251.jpg)
Sorry for the poor picture i have no room in my garage. I made those tables out of scrap wood and particle board leaving a chair between them and the car for me to stand on to take pictures. The openings are on the "top" in this picture. Look how caked it is! I can only see through it in a few places. There is a minor ding in the bottom causing some mangled fins but it doesn't appear to effect the lowest passageway. The openings for the hoses are as follows : one on the top left of the picture and one out the very end. So it's different than the one i posted in that respect but the outlets are still at the same end. Just 90 degrees from each other.
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What about connecting it with a bypass oil filter (of better micron standards) and do away with the stock setup completely?
I know some of the benzes do....
I just dont know about flow ratings/ pressure.
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http://www.eurosportacc.com/eurosport_oil_cooler_oilcooler_kit_mocal.htm
This is EuroSport and their oil cooler selection.
They provide a Mocal thermostatic sandwich plate, which installs after your stock "Oil" - "Coolant" Oil cooler,
and adds a thermostat so it only runs it thru the cooler (The oil-air one, that is..) after it is up to temp..
The Cooler pictured that someone asked about is an aftermarket cooler to fit the front bumper in a 70's 911 RS. The cost of these coolers is insane.
Go generic! Buy the thermo plate from EuroSport and buy a cheap cooler and get the best of all!
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Thank you Mr.Harry Mann for correcting me and that piece of info
please show me yours Ed!
Oh my, what is this turning into Duane?
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f279/edmcclung/SSPX0251.jpg)
Sorry for the poor picture i have no room in my garage. I made those tables out of scrap wood and particle board leaving a chair between them and the car for me to stand on to take pictures. The openings are on the "top" in this picture. Look how caked it is! I can only see through it in a few places. There is a minor ding in the bottom causing some mangled fins but it doesn't appear to effect the lowest passageway. The openings for the hoses are as follows : one on the top left of the picture and one out the very end. So it's different than the one i posted in that respect but the outlets are still at the same end. Just 90 degrees from each other.
just a oil cooler all it's doing! but it has to fit inside my bumper !
can that one fitting that at 90 be changed to be strait like the one on the right? my line's are gonne run through my bumper and through the bumper brackets and then through the core support! i want it hidden!
the bumper will have scoops cut and welded underneath for air flow!
i been conjuring up this for years till you posted that pic. and knew thats the one i been looking for! i looked on flea-bay and still nothing like that one you have?
Duane