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General Information => General => Topic started by: Dr. Diesel on October 26, 2008, 04:51:09 pm

Title: V16 two stroke diesel
Post by: Dr. Diesel on October 26, 2008, 04:51:09 pm
Something I spotted today. It'd be so cool just to have this thing.
That yellow can is a generator. Yup, belt driven by a V16 2 stroke Detroit!
I'd love to hear it running such an ungodly racket! It'd be neat to somehow put this into a vehicle.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v225/vwpics/DSC07901.jpg)
Title: V16 two stroke diesel
Post by: cyrus #1 on October 26, 2008, 05:49:41 pm
Nice find!  They used V-16 2-stroke diesels when my dad worked on the railroad.  They were about 3000hp.  Now, they're pushing about 6000.

I like the 8 belt drive turning the generator.  :shock:
Title: V16 two stroke diesel
Post by: jtanguay on October 26, 2008, 06:03:38 pm
you'd need some heavy duty leaf springs to hold that sucker up  :lol: would be neat to do like monster garage and built the whole vehicle around the motor  :lol:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-7QNvIxQTs
Title: V16 two stroke diesel
Post by: VW_Commuter on October 26, 2008, 06:33:42 pm
My dad had a Freightliner with a V8 Detroit Diesel and that truck would keep up with the bigger Cummins and Catepillar powered tractors.  The engine had a high idle speed toggle switch for extended idling when hot so it would keep the oil pressure up.
Title: V16 two stroke diesel
Post by: Wayland on October 26, 2008, 06:50:31 pm
My neighbor is an older guy who used to work in the bush, and he told me one time about these off-highway logging trucks they used to have that used a 12v-71 Detroit, with two stacks coming straight out of the hood, no mufflers. All the guys that drove them were deaf!
Title: V16 two stroke diesel
Post by: Krazy on October 26, 2008, 06:52:14 pm
That engine is 2 8 cylinder 71 series engines mated together.  They did make a 12 cylinder block that was installed in road tractors.  They would pass anything but a fuel stop!
Title: V16 two stroke diesel
Post by: Dakotakid on October 26, 2008, 10:37:23 pm
I ran 1.25 mile long coal trains for Burlington Northern out of the Powder River Basin (Gillette, Wyoming) for 8 years beginning in the mid '70s.

At that time, the state of the art coal motors were Electromotive Division (EMD) (General Motors) model SD 40 locomotives. They produced a rated 2500 hp and had V-16 2 stroke diesels.

Burlington Northern also had to (government mandated) purchase General Electric V-20 four stroke coal motors as well. I believe they were model U-30C's.

The coal market was absolutely booming and we used to get 5 day old units (engines) (they were dated on an in-cab plaque) in which the paint in the cabs was still soft. Operating something this big and this new was kind of amazing....but, the paint really stunk!!!!

These long, heavy trains required 5 units. The EMD's were very responsive to throttle input..the GE's were kind of slow to do anything and the lumbering 4 strokes really stunk and was hell on your lungs. We have some 8 and 12 mile upgrades where the engines run with 100% throttle application the entire time. Man...there isn't much that compared to opening a cab window, hanging your head out, and listening to those turbochargers scream. It did cost me some of my hearing.
Title: V16 two stroke diesel
Post by: Patrick on October 27, 2008, 03:28:34 am
Did a tour of the Detroit Diesel factory a few years ago. At the time, they could no longer sell the 2 strokes for highway trucks, but were still building them for gen sets, boats, etc.
Nomenclature goes like this.  1st number is #of cylinders, V indicates Vtype engine, and the last number is the displacement of each cylinder. Engines were available at 53, 71, 92, or 153 inches per cylinder.  Biggest one I saw in a highway truck was a 12V71. I know where there used to be a couple in old Euclids too. Have driven a 6V53, 671,6V92, and an 8V92.  Saw a matched pair of 16V71's at the factory (lots of chrome) headed for some boat in Saudi Arabia. Biggest one I saw at the factory was a 20V153.....

Engines were not as big on torque as the 4 stokes the same size, but still made lots of power if you gave them enough fuel and wound them up!
Title: V16 two stroke diesel
Post by: stewardc on October 27, 2008, 05:35:19 am
Back in the day, I worked in the parts dept. of a heavy equipment/Detroit Diesel shop. The power corporation there had a LARGE truck they used for moving transformers. It had planetary drive axles and all the heavy-duty stuff, and a turboed 16V-71 Detroit. It was a beautiful thing at full song.
Later, I joined a volunteer fire department in the small community where I still live. they had two SCOT firetrucks with 8V-71 Detroits in them and very poor mufflers. Those things would give you goose-bumps when going on a call.
I love the sound of a 2-stroke Detroit.
Title: V16 two stroke diesel
Post by: zukgod1 on October 27, 2008, 06:37:25 am
My dad has a 2cyl supercharged Detroit Generator.

That damn thing can be heard 1/2 miles away!!
Title: V16 two stroke diesel
Post by: AdAm84 on October 27, 2008, 06:51:50 pm
I used to work on firetrucks. The 2-stroke detriot was the industry standard untill the series 60 was introduced. I have seen 671, 6v92, 8v71 and i believe 8v92 in fire engines. Some of which had turbos feeding the mandatory supercharger that was geared down to spin slower.
      These engines were ahead of thier time. I had several apart in tech school. The injectors were actuated by the camshaft. They had roller lifters for the valves. 4 valves per cyliinder in most of the engines(exhaust only :lol: ) They also had left and right hand rotation engines ( for marine use). They are so cool to have apart and see how everything works.
Title: V16 two stroke diesel
Post by: Smokey Eddy on October 28, 2008, 12:29:09 am
You guys are nuts. My mechanics/shop teacher was a heavy duty mech. for trains too. He taught me so much (although my jetta wasn't remotely similar)
I'm so glad there is a forum full of guys like him! He was NUTS (in a good way)! The smell of diesel made him feel ill and frozen, flash backs of fixing something on a train in the middle of winter in the prairies or something like that. What an exclusive breed of wrenchers you guys are!
20V153  :shock:
I've always been interested how HUUUUGEEE diesels even worked, like oil tankers. when i was younger, my dad used to say you could stand a full grown man inside a cylinder of one of the engines. I think he was just pulling my leg.
That seems ludicrous now that i know a bit about engines. Is this actually true???
If so, how on earth would something like that function. really really really low rpm...?
Title: V16 two stroke diesel
Post by: clbanman on October 28, 2008, 02:43:40 am
http://flickr.com/photos/robbynorman/2281337856/
Title: V16 two stroke diesel
Post by: Patrick on October 28, 2008, 03:22:31 am
Saw some blocks from stripped out boats at a spot we used to load trucks, I think it was Baltimore.  Blocks (without oil pans or heads) were about the same height as the truck (13'6").....
I know there's bigger stuff!
BTW, my late 70's big cam 400 cummins (855 inches) was the same as the detroit engines in a few respects, cam followers had rollers, four valves per cylinder, intercooled, big Holset turbo, (no wastegate!:D) Didn't have that 2 stroke sound, but burned a lot less fuel!
Title: V16 two stroke diesel
Post by: VW_Commuter on October 28, 2008, 05:23:57 am
This (http://people.bath.ac.uk/ccsshb/12cyl/) is billed as the 'Largest Diesel Engine in the World'.  I don't know if it's true but it's pretty d@mn big.
Title: V16 two stroke diesel
Post by: jtanguay on October 28, 2008, 10:53:38 am
Quote from: "VW_Commuter"
This (http://people.bath.ac.uk/ccsshb/12cyl/) is billed as the 'Largest Diesel Engine in the World'.  I don't know if it's true but it's pretty d@mn big.


Maximum power: 108,920 hp at 102 rpm  
Maximum torque: 5,608,312 lb/ft at 102rpm  

Even at its most efficient power setting, the big 14 consumes 1,660 gallons of heavy fuel oil per hour.

 :shock:
Title: V16 two stroke diesel
Post by: Smokey Eddy on October 28, 2008, 12:19:43 pm
5.6 million ft/lbs of torque is .... meh. Decent.


 :shock: Thanks for answering my question guys.
102 rpm... i can't imagine what that would sound like...

Can Giles set my pump for the same fueling as one of those?
I have so many questions about that engine I'm not even going to start.
Title: V16 two stroke diesel
Post by: blkboostedtruck on October 28, 2008, 12:27:17 pm
Quote from: "Smokey Eddy"
5.6 million ft/lbs of torque is .... meh. Decent.


 :shock: Thanks for answering my question guys.
102 rpm... i can't imagine what that would sound like...

Can Giles set my pump for the same fueling as one of those?
I have so many questions about that engine I'm not even going to start.


yea good choice! you just stay focused on your own motor! all you need learn right now!
Duane
Title: V16 two stroke diesel
Post by: jtanguay on October 28, 2008, 01:51:01 pm
this thing makes 5149.02% more torque than HP...  :wink:

just one injector is bigger than our whole 1.6 motors... or even 1.9  :lol: and look at the size of the fuel lines... more like fire hose!!!  no wonder that thing drinks so much fuel  :lol:
Title: V16 two stroke diesel
Post by: Smokey Eddy on October 28, 2008, 03:08:17 pm
what on earth does that use for a pump???
Just the mechanics of the entire thing are so outrageous ....
must ... restrain! listen to blkboostedtruck!!!
Title: V16 two stroke diesel
Post by: blkboostedtruck on October 28, 2008, 05:17:32 pm
Quote from: "Smokey Eddy"
what on earth does that use for a pump???
Just the mechanics of the entire thing are so outrageous ....
must ... restrain! listen to blkboostedtruck!!!


hey Ed! i;m watching you! i can easily make a phone call and send someone over to straiten you out!
  :shock:
those motors are prolly found in freighter ships they might be efficient but do you know how long i could drive my caddy on one piston firing of fuel?
prolly 2 weeks?
Duane
Title: V16 two stroke diesel
Post by: 1slowvw on October 28, 2008, 08:16:45 pm
I was fortunate enough to be raised in a family which had road construction and rock crushing putting bread on the table, as such I grew up around "the shop" where at any given time there would be a V8 or V12 diesel torn down and in peices. Turbos the size of my head, and pistons just as big. Intercoolers that take up the entire opening of the back of a transport container.
Our portable rock crushing set up is currently powered by a 4 stroke V12 Cat Gen set, new with common rail, and a beautiful turbo sitting on each bank, sound pretty mean at full load when your starting the spread up in the morning, but it will never sound as mean or as dirty as some of the old two strokers I remember from when I was really young.
Sorry about the rant I get a bit excited when I talk about diesels, I'm sure some of you can relate.

1SlowVW
Title: V16 two stroke diesel
Post by: Smokey Eddy on October 28, 2008, 09:25:33 pm
Quote from: "blkboostedtruck"

those motors are prolly found in freighter ships they might be efficient but do you know how long i could drive my caddy on one piston firing of fuel?
prolly 2 weeks?


Let's actually figure it out. OK so IF 1,660 US gallons per hour to operate thats 6274.8 Litres per hour.
102rpm * 60 minutes  = 6120 revolutions an hour.

Therefore, 6274.8 Litres/hour / 6120 revolutions an hour is just over 1 Litre per revolution for all 14 cylinders (which is nuts) so thats about 75 ml per cylinder each time it goes *bang* IF IT WERE TO FIRE ON  EVERY CYLINDER ON EVERY REVOLUTION.

but it doesn't. It's a two stroke so every other stroke is a power stroke right?
so its more like 150ml per fire.

If my calculations are right  :wink:  ...........            Duane.
Title: V16 two stroke diesel
Post by: jtanguay on October 28, 2008, 09:50:51 pm
i wish i could store what that thing drinks in an hour in my back yard...  8) that is fuel for a few years at least...!
Title: V16 two stroke diesel
Post by: Dr. Diesel on October 28, 2008, 11:40:14 pm
Quote from: "Smokey Eddy"


Therefore, 6274.8 Litres/hour / 6120 revolutions an hour is just over 1 Litre per revolution for all 14 cylinders (which is nuts) so thats about 75 ml per cylinder each time it goes *bang* IF IT WERE TO FIRE ON  EVERY CYLINDER ON EVERY REVOLUTION.

but it doesn't. It's a two stroke so every other stroke is a power stroke right?
so its more like 150ml per fire.

If my calculations are right  :wink:  ...........            Duane.


Two strokes fire every revolution.  :twisted:
Title: V16 two stroke diesel
Post by: Turbinepowered on October 29, 2008, 02:08:03 am
Quote from: "Smokey Eddy"

but it doesn't. It's a two stroke so every other stroke is a power stroke right?
so its more like 150ml per fire.


Every rotation involves two piston strokes, one up and one down.

Therefore a two-stroke completes it's full cycle of operation (intake-compression-combustion-exhaust) within a single rotation of the crankshaft.

A four stroke must complete the same four phases (Intake, compression, combustion, exhaust), but it takes four "strokes" of the piston to do them, needing two crankshaft rotations.
Title: V16 two stroke diesel
Post by: Smokey Eddy on October 29, 2008, 10:22:46 am
oh ok, so it is 75 per fire then.

er... wait no ...
someone correct me! I just got out of class and i want to go back to bed but i really want that to be right!!!
Title: V16 two stroke diesel
Post by: rabbitman on October 29, 2008, 12:38:52 pm
I bet you could throw a rabbit into the turbo and it'd chew it up and spit it out the exhaust! :shock: I think I heard these are for generators to power a city or two. I wonder how big of cloud they can make :lol: hahaha
I wish we could find out the compression ratio. Is that the starter in the lower left in the crank picture? Actually it prolly uses air pressure to start and then never gets shut off. Prolly has a external oil reservior so you could change it as it ran :shock: I wonder how much anti freeze it holds. hahaha. perdy crazy........I want one.
Title: V16 two stroke diesel
Post by: VW_Commuter on October 29, 2008, 01:08:17 pm
The diesel that I linked to is designed 'primarily for very large container ships'.
Title: V16 two stroke diesel
Post by: clbanman on October 29, 2008, 06:14:23 pm
Quote from: "Patrick"
I know where there used to be a couple in old Euclids too.

I'm pretty sure the last 2 stroke Detroit Diesel we installed in a Euc was about 2000 in a 190 ton hauler.  They actually looked pretty much like the picture in the first thread on this post.  They went to Dexing in China.  Currently we're putting 15V4000 Detroit MTU's in our biggest trucks - derated to 2700 HP to help save fuel and extend service life.
Title: V16 two stroke diesel
Post by: blkboostedtruck on October 29, 2008, 10:55:20 pm
Quote from: "Smokey Eddy"
Quote from: "blkboostedtruck"

those motors are prolly found in freighter ships they might be efficient but do you know how long i could drive my caddy on one piston firing of fuel?
prolly 2 weeks?


Let's actually figure it out. OK so IF 1,660 US gallons per hour to operate thats 6274.8 Litres per hour.
102rpm * 60 minutes  = 6120 revolutions an hour.

Therefore, 6274.8 Litres/hour / 6120 revolutions an hour is just over 1 Litre per revolution for all 14 cylinders (which is nuts) so thats about 75 ml per cylinder each time it goes *bang* IF IT WERE TO FIRE ON  EVERY CYLINDER ON EVERY REVOLUTION.

but it doesn't. It's a two stroke so every other stroke is a power stroke right?
so its more like 150ml per fire.

If my calculations are right  :wink:  ...........            Duane.


don't look at me to bail you out on this ! besides i warned you! also i been out of school for over 25years now! my math really sucks at my old age! :shock:
Duane
Title: V16 two stroke diesel
Post by: Smokey Eddy on October 30, 2008, 12:01:40 am
Heheh! finally you respond!
Just pullin yer leg Duane!
Title: V16 two stroke diesel
Post by: TDIMeister on February 14, 2009, 08:16:23 am
Well, this isn't a 2-stroker but it is a V16.  Picture shows the right bank of a locomotive engine.  I was part of the team that designed it.  Those team members including myself and other details of the engine and the test cell in which the pic was taken have been cropped out for security and NDA.

(http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z114/daveo643/Stuff/DSC00819.png)
Title: V16 two stroke diesel
Post by: Smokey Eddy on February 14, 2009, 01:46:45 pm
that's pretty neat