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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: BioDieselVW on October 08, 2008, 09:38:13 am
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So I was just wondering what everyone was running for egts. I have installed my New Giles Super Pump and with the added fuel im running much hotter. If i do a 1-3 gear WOT run I will see egts in the mid to high 1400's. Its intercooled with 2.5 dp and 3in back exhaust. 20psi boost kkk 14 turbo. Is this too Hot? Am I going to melt this motor? When im just cruising im below 800. Whats to hot? Post up your temps
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K24 hot side K26 cold side, 3" turbo back, intercooled.
9mm pump, Big Ass injectors
Will hit 1400 on a long pull, runs 600ish down the freeway flat ground.
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K24, stock K03 DP with a straight through 2 1/2 exhaust 1-3 WOT run will hit 1400's i have never seen any higher and my fuel is up
highway cruising doing 120 KM/H its at 600
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Oh ya, "Whats TO HOT?"
Well I would say don't take it past 1600 EVER, I personally have touched 1500 a few times but never sustained. Usually by 1400 I'm way past where I wanted to be as far as speed goes anyway.
In my Cummins I would hit 1800 under WOT often :shock:
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Will a lager turbo lower EGTS. Such as upgrading from a kkk14 to a T3 or KKK24?
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Will a lager turbo lower EGTS.
I'm not sure, but I think a fine pilsner turbo might do it :lol:
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If you want to lower EGT, there are 3 basic ways:
1. Burn less fuel
2. lower intake temps ( larger intercooler, more air through the intercooler, insulate the post intercooler line, etc {your intercooler is in front of the radiator and A/C condenser?} )
3. Lower your boost pressure
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3. Lower your boost pressure
Ah, fuel is heet.
Boost is air, and thats cool...
I can set my 1.6TD up to do 30 PSI, and not exceed 700F no matter how hard I try.
Makes OK power too
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3. Lower your boost pressure
Ideal Gas law:
Pressure * Volume = n * R * Temperature
Its why your air compressor gets hot. It you pack more air into the cylinder your temp will go up.
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/Kinetic/idegas.html
It you never get above 1000 F - WOW !!!!
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3. Lower your boost pressure
Ideal Gas law:
Pressure * Volume = n * R * Temperature
Its why your air compressor gets hot. It you pack more air into the cylinder your temp will go up.
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/Kinetic/idegas.html
It you never get above 1000 F - WOW !!!!
Yah, but thats with out fuel..
Lowering boost, and maintaining the same amount of fuel will increase EGT.
Maintaining fuel and increasing boost lowers EGT
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3. Lower your boost pressure
Ideal Gas law:
Pressure * Volume = n * R * Temperature
Its why your air compressor gets hot. It you pack more air into the cylinder your temp will go up.
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/Kinetic/idegas.html
It you never get above 1000 F - WOW !!!!
Yah, but thats with out fuel..
Lowering boost, and maintaining the same amount of fuel will increase EGT.
Maintaining fuel and increasing boost lowers EGT
Very true,
If I drop my boost from 27 psi to say 15 psi my EGT's climb much higher much faster.
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holly crap your running 27 PSI thats crazy!! i am running 18-20 and i think thats high (K24)
does it really even make much more of a difference at that high of boost??
arnt you worried about you head gasket blowing!!
i have turned my boost up to like 24 and did notice any differnce from like 20-24......
27 is alot of boost
what have u done for your motor to handle that!
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Air does heat up when compressed. But the amount of heat it generates in the cylinder compared to the combustion of fuel is next to nil.
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holly crap your running 27 PSI thats crazy!! i am running 18-20 and i think thats high (K24)
does it really even make much more of a difference at that high of boost??
arnt you worried about you head gasket blowing!!
i have turned my boost up to like 24 and did notice any differnce from like 20-24......
27 is alot of boost
what have u done for your motor to handle that!
27 with the pump turned DOWN... 40psi has been on the gauge in the past.
Not worried about head gasket issues. Metal MLS gasket with ARP Head studs @ 90lbs. That gasket isn't going anywhere.
Huge intercooler to reduce intake temps thus lowering cyl pressures.
Runs awesome! :twisted:
Ask 53willys, he went for a ride the other day. :shock:
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I've been under the impression that un-intercooled, 14 or so psi is the point of diminishing returns where the reduction of EGTs from added air no longer offsets the added heat from compression. With an adequate intercooler, increased boost ALWAYS lowers EGTs.
Andrew
14psi on a k14 sure. k24, k26 etc that # gets bigger as the compressor does.
But ya, the more you compress air the hotter it gets this is why the larger compressors don't get the air as hot, more volume less pressure.
Intercoolers are your friend.
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I think part of the issue with the smaller turbos is that they have to work so hard to compress the air while the larger turbos don't have to work as hard as they are compressing more air in a single rotation versus the smaller turbo.
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Air does heat up when compressed. But the amount of heat it generates in the cylinder compared to the combustion of fuel is next to nil.
While this is true, your air density is lower. when you lower your air density your increasing your egts, due to a rich mixture. thats why you intercool. Its not about quanitity of air, its about quality.
Oh ya, "Whats TO HOT?"
In my Cummins I would hit 1800 under WOT often :shock:
Your poor cummins should have melted to the ground!. 1650 max for no more than 3sec. Your valve seals are gunna hate you....12v or 24?
Back to the vw. I am hoping all of these numbers being thrown around are thermocouples mounted between the turbo and the head. With that said. these measurements are an average of all cylinders. you could actually be running hotter in one cylinder than another. I am not taking my ceramic coated pistons higher than 1400 intermittent. and 1150 sustained. Of course the water/meth will kick in at 1200.
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655*F.
That's if it's floored, 5th gear, up a hill.
Specs-
1.6NA converted to TD
VNT15 from a TDI
NA injectors
NA pump
Fuel screw cranked as far as the crimped on collar would permit
11psi
No intercooler
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Oh ya, "Whats TO HOT?"
In my Cummins I would hit 1800 under WOT often :shock:
Your poor cummins should have melted to the ground!. 1650 max for no more than 3sec. Your valve seals are gunna hate you....12v or 24?
Gee thanks.
The Cummins is a VERY durable engine. When it did touch 1850 that's when I backed out. Those were very hard pulls with the rock crawler behind me going up steep hills between home and Moab. To much fuel not enough timing.
I pulled the head after 145k to O Ring it due to the 50+ psi I was pushing and it looked perfect. Ended up reassembled with a OE gasket and ARP's.
Sold it about 50k later still running strong.
Cummins and VW cannot be compaired.
BTW 1650 is for ***'s!
My 1.6 has seen 1650..
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Oh ya, "Whats TO HOT?"
In my Cummins I would hit 1800 under WOT often :shock:
Your poor cummins should have melted to the ground!. 1650 max for no more than 3sec. Your valve seals are gunna hate you....12v or 24?
Gee thanks.
The Cummins is a VERY durable engine. When it did touch 1850 that's when I backed out. Those were very hard pulls with the rock crawler behind me going up steep hills between home and Moab. To much fuel not enough timing.
I pulled the head after 145k to O Ring it due to the 50+ psi I was pushing and it looked perfect. Ended up reassembled with a OE gasket and ARP's.
Sold it about 50k later still running strong.
Cummins and VW cannot be compaired.
BTW 1650 is for ***'s!
My 1.6 has seen 1650..
HAHA, go over to diesel truck resource and tell them that....but dont tell them where you live.
I am a cummins believer...im in the 600's club. and we have all had our 1800degree moment.... :oops:
You must have been a 12v if your oringing at 50...correct? or pre common rail 24valve?
Im a ***....i get scared at 1500...! to much money to replace that motor. id much rather spend on mods to keep it cool. like a set of twins perhaps :twisted:
Knowing what i know about these (vw) motors.....i aint gunna get it that hot...
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1850 ? I'm guessing either your turbine was not spun fully up, or your EGT was a little off - the wheel can't be spun at full speed and that temp w/o causing damage to the exhaust turbine wheel.
Or, do you have an after market wheel that's a super alloy ?
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Oh ya, "Whats TO HOT?"
In my Cummins I would hit 1800 under WOT often :shock:
Your poor cummins should have melted to the ground!. 1650 max for no more than 3sec. Your valve seals are gunna hate you....12v or 24?
Gee thanks.
The Cummins is a VERY durable engine. When it did touch 1850 that's when I backed out. Those were very hard pulls with the rock crawler behind me going up steep hills between home and Moab. To much fuel not enough timing.
I pulled the head after 145k to O Ring it due to the 50+ psi I was pushing and it looked perfect. Ended up reassembled with a OE gasket and ARP's.
Sold it about 50k later still running strong.
Cummins and VW cannot be compaired.
BTW 1650 is for ***'s!
My 1.6 has seen 1650..
HAHA, go over to diesel truck resource and tell them that....but dont tell them where you live.
I am a cummins believer...im in the 600's club. and we have all had our 1800degree moment.... :oops:
You must have been a 12v if your oringing at 50...correct? or pre common rail 24valve?
Im a ***....i get scared at 1500...! to much money to replace that motor. id much rather spend on mods to keep it cool. like a set of twins perhaps :twisted:
Knowing what i know about these (vw) motors.....i aint gunna get it that hot...
It'a all in fun..
I hear ya on the EGT's for sure.
It was a 24v but pre common rail and to be honest instead of poking the bee's nest I only hit it a couple times when I wasnt paying attention pulling my rock crawler heading to Moab. Scrared the shiz out of me both times. I even pulled over and let it idle down to 600 before I even lifted the hood. makes my hands sweat just hinking about it..
Oh ya. Only ***'s hang out at DTR :twisted: CompD http://www.competitiondiesel.com/ is the only place to be 8)
Just messing with ya man...
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1850 ? I'm guessing either your turbine was not spun fully up, or your EGT was a little off - the wheel can't be spun at full speed and that temp w/o causing damage to the exhaust turbine wheel.
Or, do you have an after market wheel that's a super alloy ?
I had a proto type turbo from Hightech turbo on it at that time.
Once we changed out the turbo it never went past 1650 again.
It just wouldn't lite to save it's ass and when it did I was already out of it. just to damn big.
Ended up with a 64/14 SS housing for towing. 150 sticks, Redline/Smarty.
Sure was a fun truck but so is the VW and it's easier to work on, oh ya. The VW is paid for as well.
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1850 ? I'm guessing either your turbine was not spun fully up, or your EGT was a little off - the wheel can't be spun at full speed and that temp w/o causing damage to the exhaust turbine wheel.
Or, do you have an after market wheel that's a super alloy ?
If you cant spool the turbo, those motors (or any for that matter) get pissed...quick! but when they lite....OMG its like being in a cannon, trailer or not.
Inconel will handle that, but notice were talking seconds. Seems like most turbines are inconel or some derivitive...i could be wrong
Zukgod....were you playing with the golden nugget (66/71/16)? ***s cant spool the golden nuget!! :twisted: :? J/P
Comparing IDI temps to DI is probably not a good idea. I wonder which is hotter precup temps or combustion temps. where is the majority of the burn? also, which is the hottest cylinder? #4s my guess.
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Zukgod....were you playing with the golden nugget (66/71/16)? ***s cant spool the golden nuget!! :twisted: :? J/P
DAMN!!
Ya caught me! :twisted:
I needed more mods to get that thing spinning, Once it lite it was down right scary.
I was running 38" Toyo's and it was hard to keep them planted one it did lite... :shock:
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VW T3 Westfalia (Vanagon Camper)
1.9TD AAZ with barrel charge cooler and hybrid turbo.
No governor mod.
Stock injection system with Rover boost pin.
1.25 bar under load - .5 bar cruising.
EGT 650°F cruising on flat
EGT 1100°F nailling it up hill
Thats boost and fuel backed off from stock!
It went like *** off a stick when I first built it, then I checked the boost gauge - 2 bar (30psi) I soon backed it off a bit!!
:shock:
It also ran really hot, smelt hot and revved it's nads off at idle!
S'okay now tho..
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1.6td
Giles pump - fueling set for 20psi
K24
ARP studs
1.9l HG
Cheap ass injectors
no IC yet, but I just got a little SMIC from a G60
Usually sits anywhere between 6-800 when cruising...
1-3 WOT @15psi max will hit 1600 if I let it. Although i've never sustained that for more than 2 seconds.
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What's a safe range for post-turbo EGTs? The probe in my Dasher is about 10cm from the turbo in a 2.5" downpipe.
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What's a safe range for post-turbo EGTs? The probe in my Dasher is about 10cm from the turbo in a 2.5" downpipe.
Generally you want to add at least 400deg to a post turbo reading.
That # will increase the further away from the turbo you get.
Post turbo is just not a good place to read EGT's unless all you want is a gauge to move around.
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So i've heard people say never to go above 1600... Is that never go above 1600 sustained? or never go above 1600 period? I'm pretty sure i've hit 1600, never for longer than a second though... but my jaunts to 100kmph WOT usually get me to 1450-1500 range... Whats safe?
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So i've heard people say never to go above 1600... Is that never go above 1600 sustained? or never go above 1600 period? I'm pretty sure i've hit 1600, never for longer than a second though... but my jaunts to 100kmph WOT usually get me to 1450-1500 range... Whats safe?
Period!
1350 is suppose to be the max but hey it's your car.
Personally I've hit 1400 before but as I did I was off the smoke peddle. Don't need melted parts.
I've ran @ 1350 for a long 5 min pull up a hill as well but at that point I just didn't care. If it blew up I was going to leave the key in it on the side of the road.
Are you intercooled? That makes a bit of difference although it surely doesn't mean you can run @ 1600 deg.
I always try to back out long before 1300.
On my last engine I had hit 1600 a few times not paying attention and when I tore it down there was zero damage.
I'm NOT saying you will have the same luck.
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1.6
Giles pump to 20lbs
BOV blocked, Wastegate bypassed to 15psi
arp headstuds
metal HG
stock everything else
no IC yet, thats next.
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Zozep what are you running for a turbo? K14 or T3 or K24 ?
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sorry K24