VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.
Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: cyrus #1 on September 28, 2008, 07:05:34 pm
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As many of us know all too well the nice wrenching weather is starting to fade as the snowy season draws closer. I figured I would get a diesel project going to help pass some time. I also figured that nobody would mind another build thread! I've been driving a VW for several years now but never have had the diesel that I always wanted.
I picked up a '92 Jetta TD shell that needs an engine. I also got a 1.6TD out of a 1987 Audi 4000 and an AGS transaxle. I now have most of the parts needed to get me going but I'm still unsure if I want to put the diesel engine into the '92 TD shell or into my '90 gasser. The '90 is in far nicer shape and will require less work.
Here are a couple of pictures of the gasser in winter mode.
(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i98/codymckay/DSC00596.jpg)
(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i98/codymckay/DSC00597.jpg)
And one in summer mode.
(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i98/codymckay/DSC00079.jpg)
I'll get some pictures of the TD shell tomorrow.
This winter I will be rebuilding the engine and preparing a transaxle. That way it will be ready to go into whatever I decide. I'm looking to build a reasonably powerful engine that will get good economy while performing reliably every day. :twisted:
Thanks for tuning in,
Cody
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Here is the progress from days 1-3. Engine teardown time!
A couple pics of the bottom end. I haven't yet devised a safe way to get the crank pulley off without wrecking anything. Until I do that the crank will stay in.
(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i98/codymckay/TD%20Rebuild/2aec4fcb.jpg)
(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i98/codymckay/TD%20Rebuild/6f439901.jpg)
My diesel shelf! :twisted:
(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i98/codymckay/TD%20Rebuild/eb77ebd6.jpg)
(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i98/codymckay/TD%20Rebuild/2a82a981.jpg)
Parts organized on the bench.
(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i98/codymckay/TD%20Rebuild/a2f0df21.jpg)
The pistons look pretty much brand new. Pretty good for a motor that supposedly has 180,000 - 200,000 km on it.
(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i98/codymckay/TD%20Rebuild/fe22048f.jpg)
(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i98/codymckay/TD%20Rebuild/7998e5af.jpg)
Standard issue mastercraft 1-1/16" wrench ground down for injector removal.
(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i98/codymckay/TD%20Rebuild/b94ce912.jpg)
(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i98/codymckay/TD%20Rebuild/1a5299a0.jpg)
Using my home made valve spring compressor to remove valve spring keepers after the injectors and glow plugs have been removed.
(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i98/codymckay/TD%20Rebuild/6868a306.jpg)
That's it for today. Overall I'm pretty pleased with how the engine looks so far. Apologies for not getting more breakdown pics. The poor utility sink has been getting quite the workout trying cope with all the grease and diesel gunk. :P
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Clearly you're a dedicated diesel guy... the IP is blocking the best part of your Bud poster.
Redline MTL for the tranny.... excellent.
Looks like you're a mountain biker too FTW. :lol:
A 4-foot piece of angle iron with a half circle cut in one end and bolted to the crank sprocket is the bee's knees for holding the crank while you fuss with the crank bolt... there's a picture or two of Andrew's over on the Homemade Tool sticky at www.vwdieselparts.com.
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looks good!
you need too come down and straiten my garage out like yours!
mine is just kayos :roll:
Duane
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Thanks for the heads up Vince. I will construct an angle iron breaker tomorrow. Since I have an early engine with the 6 point crank bolt, I will want to replace that with the newer 12 point version correct?
I like mountain biking too but don't seem to get out enough anymore. There are some kick ass trails around here. Everything from entry level XC trails to full on freeriding and lift accessed biking at resorts too. If you're ever out this way let me know and I'll give you a heads up on some areas to check out. 8)
Thanks Duane! I spent most of yesterday building the diesel shelf, cleaning and organizing. I'm sure in another week it won't look much different than yours. lol. I don't have a garage to work with so I have to settle for the basement. Getting the engine down the stairs was quite the chore.
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My folks live in Kamloops so I bring my bike there whenever I can... Sun Peaks, Kenna Cartright, and all the other delights Kamloops has to offer... the Okanagan is fantastic ain't it !! Probably as close to Moab as I'll get.
Yep, you want the 12-point... but I bet that's all the dealer will sell you anyways.
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jesus....
is that cheater bar nessisary?
Does the crank need to come off if you're getting boreing done?
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is that cheater bar nessisary?
Does the crank need to come off if you're getting boreing done?
Um, yes and yes..
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Because of that, you can torque a bolt to a bar block without the thing trying to roll around the garage floor.
Andrew
The rolling part is supposed to happen, it builds character and language skills.
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Because of that, you can torque a bolt to a bar block without the thing trying to roll around the garage floor.
Andrew
The rolling part is supposed to happen, it builds character and language skills.
dude haaa haaa!!! now thats funny jim! i can't stop laughing
and i can so clearly see my self obtaining those skills!
now thats funny stuff!
Duane
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Because of that, you can torque a bolt to a bar block without the thing trying to roll around the garage floor.
Andrew
The rolling part is supposed to happen, it builds character and language skills.
dude haaa haaa!!! now thats funny jim! i can't stop laughing
and i can so clearly see my self obtaining those skills!
now thats funny stuff!
Duane
Ya I've obtained those skills..
At times I attempt to hide them from my children..
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is that cheater bar nessisary?
Does the crank need to come off if you're getting boreing done?
Um, yes and yes..
plus you might want to replace the crank seal. With the oil pan off you can wedge the crank with a block of wood & torque away, but using the bar is MUCH better.
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Can someone please shout me these torque specs and procedure?
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I'll get some pictures of the TD shell tomorrow.
And here they are. I think I disrupted several ecosystems in the process of moving this car. :oops:
(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i98/codymckay/TD%20Rebuild/DSC01253.jpg)
(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i98/codymckay/TD%20Rebuild/DSC01252.jpg)
(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i98/codymckay/TD%20Rebuild/DSC01254.jpg)
(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i98/codymckay/TD%20Rebuild/DSC01257.jpg)
This tool looks familiar, doesn't it? That sucker was tight but the 4' cheater dispatched it quickly. :twisted:
(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i98/codymckay/TD%20Rebuild/DSC01251.jpg)
Bottom of the block with the crank removed.
(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i98/codymckay/TD%20Rebuild/DSC01261.jpg)
Mmmm! Oil squirter goodness.
(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i98/codymckay/TD%20Rebuild/DSC01263.jpg)
Crankshaft chilling out on the shelf.
(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i98/codymckay/TD%20Rebuild/DSC01264.jpg)
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My folks live in Kamloops so I bring my bike there whenever I can... Sun Peaks, Kenna Cartright, and all the other delights Kamloops has to offer... the Okanagan is fantastic ain't it !! Probably as close to Moab as I'll get.
That's cool, I went to college in Kamloops. I loved how I could walk out my door in any direction and have an awesome trail to bike or hike 500 feet away.
Can someone please shout me these torque specs and procedure?
I can't find the procedure in the Bentley but I did find the chart with the torque specs. The hex head bolt with washer needs to be tightened to 111 ft. lbs. The 12 point bolt gets torqued to 66 ft. lbs, then it gets an additional 180°. It says to use lubrication with both procedures. :P
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Holy frick!
Okay thanks. good grief.
I'm taking mine apart for boreing within the month and i've never done it before and i need to minimize the amount of time it's apart for.
Thanks for looking that up for me i really appreciate that
ps. my jetta's at 395,775km
Noice tach. I have a useless clock :(
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alot of people have issues removing the later crank bolt. i;ve heard its easier to cut the head off sometimes. my half inch impact wouldn't take one off.
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Grade 12 physics tells me a 4 foot cheater bar adds an enormous amount of torque. I'm sure someone could shear steel with 4 feet of leverage. If a 4 foot lever arm doesn't do it, yeah i guess you'd have to cut it off but i think a huge lever like that puts more torque on it than an impact gun ever could. The numbers for impact are impressive but a huge lever like that ... has anyone NOT been able to get it off with a huge arm like that?
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Thanks for looking that up for me i really appreciate that
No worries!
I weigh about 200 lbs so with a 4 ft cheater I should be able to develop about 800 ft lbs of torque. You need a very solid impact gun to get those kind of numbers. :twisted:
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Exactly. not to mention you could probably do more than your own body weight if you are firmly planted with both feet on the wall horizontaly and shoulder into the cheater bar. :P
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Exactly. not to mention you could probably do more than your own body weight if you are firmly planted with both feet on the wall horizontaly and shoulder into the cheater bar. :P
We once stacked two of us @ 190 apiece atop a 5' cheater bar and pushed against a beam to break loose a rear axle nut on a Beetle... It still barely came off! That nut wanted to stay on!
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I can't believe steel takes that kind of force. Was it all warped and deformed?
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I can't believe steel takes that kind of force. Was it all warped and deformed?
Rusted more than shiz. We were fighting friction the entire way, and the cheater pipe we were on top of deformed.
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That's scary stuff. Were you using a huge breaker bar? I'm surprised the nut let loose before your ratchet/breaker bar did.
A couple more updates for tonight. I got the block completely stripped down.
(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i98/codymckay/TD%20Rebuild/DSC01274.jpg)
I hope that whoever owned the car this engine came out of never buys a car with a cast oil pan. They beat the piss out of this thing. It's dented about 2 inches deep in places. It's hard to tell where one dent ends and the next begins. :roll:
(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i98/codymckay/TD%20Rebuild/DSC01277.jpg)
(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i98/codymckay/TD%20Rebuild/DSC01278.jpg)
I also got the valvetrain removed from the head.
(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i98/codymckay/TD%20Rebuild/DSC01279.jpg)
The cracks between the valves don't appear to be too serious either. :D
(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i98/codymckay/TD%20Rebuild/DSC01265.jpg)
The next step will be to get this stuff cleaned and then try to order pars slowly enough that I'm not totally broke all the time. :cry:
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Nicely done! you're about 2 weeks ahead of me haha
You have a lot of cleaning to do though. I've already cleaned mine up from previous head jobs (sounds a little dirty!)
I suggest using wet dry on the head after you laqure thinner as much carbon off as you can. 2000 grit works well in small doses (and even doses make sure you use something flat.)
my cracks look more like seperation
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I might have a line on an industrial parts washer. It uses hot soapy water so I can wash aluminium or steel with no worries. 8) Thankfully I'm not in a huge hurry so I can just go at my own pace for the cleaning. It really is the most tedious part of the process.
What are you going to do with the old head? You should cross section it for science, or some cool decorations. :twisted:
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That's scary stuff. Were you using a huge breaker bar? I'm surprised the nut let loose before your ratchet/breaker bar did.
3/4" drive breaker bar, so it was beefy enough to take it. We were just really careful not to shock it with bouncing or jiggling...
And whoa. That is a seriously dented oil pan. :shock: I've seen worse, but it came off a wreck! :D
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Yeah that pan must have seen better days. Is that even safe to use with thoe gauges?
What do you mean cross section it for science? hahahhaha
I'll probably destroy it in some manner or another. It has caused me SO much grief and problems and money it's unreal. I'm sure it is useless. Its got big cracks between the valves and im pretty sure the valves have hit the pistons at some point, there are marks on the pistons. It has one injector boss re-welded coz someone broke it off. aparty from that it's fine ^.^
oh and i get running pressure in my coolant system from somewhere.
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Yeah that pan must have seen better days. Is that even safe to use with thoe gauges?
I'm not sure of that. I'm going to either pound them out until it's reasonably flat or try to get a new one. TD's are virtually non-existent in this neck of the woods though. :(
What do you mean cross section it for science? hahahhaha
I mean cut some slices out of that sucker with a band saw. Take a look at the casting just to see what's there and how much could be ported out. :twisted:
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Hey! good idea!
Like a biology 3d diagram!
cut it in half and then cut one of the halves in half again
Perhaps i'd take donations to do it ;) post pics on here with measurements
And, i wouldn't bend the steel any more than it's had to. I'm sure it's seen enough trauma. You make split the steel trying to make it flat.
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I've got a couple of small updates. I got a buddy from our local VW forum to wash some of my stuff. Thanks Capilon!
There's some funny looking green stuff that was hiding under 1/2" of oily diesel muck. :lol:
(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i98/codymckay/TD%20Rebuild/DSC01559.jpg)
The head still looks kind of haggard in this picture but it's actually pretty clean. The inside of the ports look like it just came out of the factory. I'm amazed at how effective these hot water+soap parts washers really are.
(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i98/codymckay/TD%20Rebuild/DSC01560.jpg)
Now, on to tonight's million dollar question. You may remember my "Is this turbo scrap?" thread. http://www.vwdiesel.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=16529&highlight=turbo+scrap Well, tonight I decided to dissect a bit further and all seemed to go well until I got to the wastegate. It would appear that there should be four studs/nuts holding on the plate over the back of the wastegate. I have two studs and two that have been welded. Is this correct, or has it been bastardized? See below for pictures.
(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i98/codymckay/TD%20Rebuild/DSC01557.jpg)
(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i98/codymckay/TD%20Rebuild/DSC01556.jpg)
(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i98/codymckay/TD%20Rebuild/DSC01558.jpg)
My guess is that someone has broken two of the studs and just welded it on. I do need to get it apart so I can inspect the inside for cracks. :?
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uhhh could just say "maybe there are cracks maybe there isn't"
and if willing, try it with that part if it works well it works and if it doesnt it doesnt?
Are there fins missing on that impeller?
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You should re -stud the wastegate block,dont want no creepy boost leaks.Impeller looks good.
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Impeller looks good.
Thanks, i dunno what it's s'posed to look like.
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I will re-stud the wastegate cover. I drilled the welds and the studs spun right out with a pair of vice grips. :D Does anybody know if this wastegate can come apart? I'd like to lap the valve seeing as I've already come this far. I'm going to take the housing to work tomorrow and clean it up in the varsol tank. There does appear to be quite a bit of cracking.
I searched and apparently there should be a large snap ring type thing holding the top of the wastegate can together. Mine appears to be crimped together though. :?
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Looks like a great project!
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This is going back a bit in this post but I always thought it would be pretty cool to mount a head on a nice piece of stained hardwood and put it up on the wall somewhere. Have a little plate with the year and model, perhaps the odometer reading.
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Well, the compressor housing cleaned up quite nicely in the varsol tank. Unfortunately, that's about all the good turbo news I have. :(
(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i98/codymckay/TD%20Rebuild/DSC01573.jpg)
As you can see in the following pictures the turbine housing is littered with cracks. I imagine this is what happens if you hop in the car in the middle of winter and immediately floor it up to 140, every day for 20 years. :evil:
(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i98/codymckay/TD%20Rebuild/DSC01566.jpg)
(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i98/codymckay/TD%20Rebuild/DSC01563.jpg)
(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i98/codymckay/TD%20Rebuild/DSC01574.jpg)
(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i98/codymckay/TD%20Rebuild/DSC01577.jpg)
(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i98/codymckay/TD%20Rebuild/DSC01572.jpg)
(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i98/codymckay/TD%20Rebuild/DSC01569.jpg)
(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i98/codymckay/TD%20Rebuild/DSC01568.jpg)
Those cracks by the wastegate are the ones that bother me. There is a huge crack that runs from the turbine inlet all the way to where the exhaust gasses enter the waste gate. I can stick my finger nail in it. I did try the solvent test. The solvent poured out the wastegate cracks as fast as I could put it in.
I'm not feeling real confident in running this turbo now. So, it looks as if I'm in the market for a new turbo now. I'll be looking for something a bit more modern. Ball bearing or VNT, here we come! :twisted:
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Looks like a great project!
Thanks. I've been inspired by all the great builds on here. Hopefully there will be many more to come.
This is going back a bit in this post but I always thought it would be pretty cool to mount a head on a nice piece of stained hardwood and put it up on the wall somewhere. Have a little plate with the year and model, perhaps the odometer reading.
I like to do stuff like that with broken parts. :twisted: If I ever snap a timing belt, the bent valves will be made into a keychain.
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those cracks look awefully familiar to a post a month or two ago...