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Engine Specific Info and Questions => Non VW Group Diesel => Topic started by: ahto42 on September 08, 2008, 09:46:20 am

Title: VNT control
Post by: ahto42 on September 08, 2008, 09:46:20 am
Hello
Sorry for my bad english!
I have a Nissan Primera IDI 2,0 TD(CD20T). It has a ECU controlled Zexel VE pump.
i was thinking to put some day a vnt 15 or vnt 17 on it.
it has no cabels in pedals, but has a vacum controlled EGR system with ecu controlled solenoid valve. i put my boost gauge to the vacum and i get over 1 bar vacum(gauges limit). It is controlled so: Idle=no vacum, accelerate hard=no vacum, accelerate medium= no vacum, acceletate light= no vacum, cruise=vacum, until coolant temp 70 degrees celsius=no vacum.

can i use the EGR vacum to control vnt? like so:  no vacum=vanes closed, vacum=vanes open. for boost control i have find a valve witchs is operated by boost, letting vacum to vnt controller when max boost.

i hope my idea isnt very bad
Title: VNT control
Post by: jimfoo on September 08, 2008, 10:59:17 am
No, that wouldn't work at all. You need vacuum all the time, and the ability to regulate it. A better, though not ideal way to operate it would be get an actuator that works off boost, making sure it opens the vanes at the desired boost(open = less boost). Or make a cable to operate the vanes along with a boost operated actuator to limit boost.
Title: VNT control
Post by: ahto42 on September 08, 2008, 12:03:41 pm
why vacum all the time, maybe a litlebit thru a vane and and egr adds more vacum, a spring pulls the vanes closed
Title: VNT control
Post by: ahto42 on September 09, 2008, 12:42:11 pm
:?:
Title: VNT control
Post by: ahto42 on September 09, 2008, 12:42:47 pm
:?:
Title: VNT control
Post by: ahto42 on September 09, 2008, 12:44:13 pm
:?:
Title: VNT control
Post by: zukgod1 on September 09, 2008, 01:50:58 pm
I think if you search a bit you will find some threads on VNT controls.

There have been a few done. I think Jimfoo has one as well if you search his name.
Title: VNT control
Post by: ahto42 on September 10, 2008, 06:17:21 am
they all are controlled by cabels, my car has electronical gaspedal
Title: VNT control
Post by: jimfoo on September 10, 2008, 06:32:49 am
Quote from: "ahto42"
why vacum all the time, maybe a litlebit thru a vane and and egr adds more vacum, a spring pulls the vanes closed

Because you constantly need to control the vane position and it sounds like you almost never have vacuum, just cruising with a temp below 70*C, which won't work at all. If you can't control the vanes, you WILL destroy the turbo. You also have to be able to adjust how much vacuum you have going to it, you can't just have vacuum/no vacuum.
Title: VNT control
Post by: ahto42 on September 10, 2008, 09:48:49 am
so you think that a turbo wg accurator push the vanes open when boost comes is a better solution?

by the way, under 70 no vacum, over 70 is vacum
Title: VNT control
Post by: gigaz2 on September 10, 2008, 11:45:48 am
better than not having anything, but still bad.
try to get a ball bearing turbo sized for your application.
no control hassle, quick spool, lots of power (you can choose spool or power when sizing)
Title: VNT control
Post by: OM617 on September 15, 2008, 06:05:24 am
Right better than nothing but still a bad choice. That will make the turbo want to produce maximum boost at all times which will severely restrict the exhaust flow at low loads.
Title: VNT control
Post by: ahto42 on September 15, 2008, 06:06:09 am
or i switch the hoses: acclererate -vacum, cruising-no vacum, and a boost controlled solenoid or valve to reduce vacum, when boost comes?
Title: VNT control
Post by: OM617 on September 15, 2008, 06:10:57 am
No, get that EGR and its vacuum hose out of your head entirely.

You must have a method of control that varies boost based on engine load (throttle). That can be with a cable and wastegate actuator, variable vacuum signal, opposing vacuum and wastegate actuators or electronic control.
Title: VNT control
Post by: ahto42 on September 16, 2008, 01:53:48 am
Does anybody got it work with vacum?
Title: VNT control
Post by: OM617 on September 16, 2008, 07:49:52 am
I use a wastegate actuator and opposing vacuum actuator. Ignore the big valve on the upper left, its long gone.

(http://members.cox.net/lnewcomb99/240D/3LMN%20actuator%20mounteda.jpg)
(http://members.cox.net/lnewcomb99/240D/1LMN%20rods.jpg)
(http://members.cox.net/lnewcomb99/240D/2LMN%20opposing%20rods.jpg)

The stock Mercedes automatic transmission Vacuum Control Valve varies the vacuum pressure according to load (throttle position). That reduces the boost PSI it takes to make the wastegate actuator move and limits the overall boost pressure to whats needed.
(http://www.mercedesshop.com/diy/trans_vac/1.jpg)

Its nowhere near as simple as plugging the EGR's tube onto an actuator. To make a VNT work on a non-stock application you need good fabrication skills and to think logically.
Title: VNT control
Post by: dillenger1 on September 16, 2008, 06:47:26 pm
Why cant you fix a cable to your gas pedal?A stiff one with some return springs,as well as a actuator to work with the pressure.
Title: VNT control
Post by: OM617 on September 16, 2008, 10:56:04 pm
Search. Its been done before.

I used variable vacuum because my application already had it in place and it was easier to adapt than a cable.
Title: VNT control
Post by: ahto42 on September 17, 2008, 05:28:41 am
I know that vacum/no vacum is bad. I studied that in idle mode and cruise is good when vanes are open, i have to find a valve like your mercedes has, but controlled electronically. Does anybody know where to find one?
Title: VNT control
Post by: OM617 on September 17, 2008, 05:36:06 am
The N75 valve used on VW TDIs.

You will have to build and program a computer to control it and feed it with throttle position, boost and RPM sensors.
Title: VNT control
Post by: ahto42 on September 17, 2008, 06:17:04 am
i was thinking witch is controlled like a gas pedal(in my language potensomeeter)
Title: VNT control
Post by: ahto42 on September 18, 2008, 02:04:31 am
n75 is a good thing, how much voltage needs the n75?
Title: VNT control
Post by: ahto42 on October 01, 2008, 05:51:36 am
i think i make it so:
(http://www.pro-auto.com.pl/pub/EVC/wire_eng.jpg)

replace MAP with TPS,
vacum thru EGR solenoid, adding a relay that cuts vacum when cruising(the signal comes from EGR harnes)