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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: dirtytom on May 15, 2005, 01:13:22 am
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just to start off here is what I'm starting with. I have a 1985 vw qauntum 1.6l td that was put out to rot away. I have an 1977 vw bus that the engine has all but exploded and want to put the quantums td into it. I'm going to get the engine adapter from KEP and I'm going to use the cooling system from the quantum. The td is in dier need of rebiulding but still barely runs(the ray of hope). I was considering of having the fuel distributer updated with a 1.9l td cam plate and using gtd injectors and installing an inter cooler posibly with cooling fan on th intercooler, also looking at doing a turbo like fspGTD did on his convertion using a tdi turbo. The only reel stipulations I have are realiability ease of rutine maintence and trying to keep my costs to a minimal. I know enough about vw diesel to get myself into trouble and sometimes back out plus I have a good manual. I am pirty mecanicly inclined and am ok at fabrocating. I was also wundering if anybody knows about puting 1.9l td pistons in and if it would be worth the extra efert.Feel free to give any sugestion that might help or words of advice. Thanks.
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If you are trying to keep costs low, 1.9TD pistons are not the way to go. I haven't been able to find them for less than $250CDN each... The 1.9TD pistons won't bolt in either, the piston pins are 2mm larger than the 1.6 pins. You will need some custom machining on the connecting rods to make it work.
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Thanks QuickTD,
Your advice is welcome. You probably saved me one heck of a head acke trying to figure out sorces and how I was going to try and rig it. What do you think about the rest of what I was thinking of doing. I've been doing a lot of reading and that is the only things that that I could come up with. I've heard about 1.9l td metal head gaskit think it's a good idea.
I know the rest of you have some opinions. feel free to through them out there. I'm just trying to learn from those who know more than me( witch is most of you) . Thanks
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I've heard about 1.9l td metal head gaskit think it's a good idea.
I think that's intened for heads with the hydrolic lifters.
Yours should have a solid lifters.
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I found someone who is selling a auidi 5 cylinder td. It's the same one that vw used in urope. Does any body no if it has the same bell housing as the 4 cylinder vw td or is itdifferant. I'm just trying to figure out if it would be worth using the 5 cylinder or the 4 cylinder.
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I found someone who is selling a auidi 5 cylinder td. It's the same one that vw used in urope. Does any body no if it has the same bell housing as the 4 cylinder vw td or is itdifferant. I'm just trying to figure out if it would be worth using the 5 cylinder or the 4 cylinder.
I think it is the same engine just a cylinder more..Here you can find specs http://www.4crawler.com
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If it is anything like the gas versions of the 4 & 5 cylinders, the bellhousings are totally different. Sorry. Otherwise I would be thinking about a Quantum Syncro/Audi 4000Q trans in my Dasher...
On the upgrades, if you want to keep it reliable and cheap, I think a good rebuild, mild port and polish around the valve throat area, and do the simple pump, boost & intercooler mods that are talked about on here, and I think you will be good to go.
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The 5 pot engine bell housing bolt pattern is totaly different then the 4, sorry.
Here's an idea for you though -- that 5 cly Audi diesel will bolt right into a Porsche 924/944 8)
moT
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Heck, I have a Porsche 924S I am selling/parting because of a rod knock. $1200 complete.
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Hi there!
i love the idea of rear wheel drive and diesel. I like to know if the 6 cilinder volvo engine also fits in the 924 or 944, 'specially the bell housing. Because the 5 cilinder is not easy to find around here.
Grtz,
Ruben
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Ruben,
Not absolutely sure, but I'm thinking that the 6 pot Volvo does share the same bolt pattern as the Audi 5. Pretty long engine for the 924, but you could probably make it fit.
V. Cool Project!
moT
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Hi moTthediesel!
could it b i read u had similar project with an 5 cyl diesel swapping into a 924?
Grtz
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well sorry it took me so long to get back to you all, got married and had to put the van on the back burner. here is the latest on the van.
I got my hands on a 1985 quantum 1.6l td. and a new adapter kit from kep. the quantum I'm using has ac that I'm going to put under the dash of the van. the ac compressor on thr engine is on the right side of the block and after buying a vnt turbo from a 2002 golf tdi I found that the compressor housing goes rite where the ac bracket goes. so I got a new vnt turbo that I will have to make an adapter to my stock manifold. :wink: . I have a set of gtd noslles for my injetors. I have to make a new output pipe on the back of the head for the water heater in the ac system. when I pulled the spout off of the back of the head I noticed a line in the casting on the water jacket. upon ferther looking I found that the line was a new crack wraping around the exhaust port :shock: I have a spare engine that was given to me that I was going to turn into a diesel generator that I can steal the head from :twisted:
it is a na diesel instead of a TD. I am going to get an inter cooler and maybe another oil cooler. I will post some pics when I get a chane although I'm not to sure of how to. have to go for now but will post again real soon
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I will post some pics when I get a chane although I'm not to sure of how to.
You need ot go to www.imageshack.com (or www.photobucket.com, there a re several free photo hosting services around the web) and start a free account, then upload your pictures there, then put the address thay give you inbetween image tags, like this, except no comma [,img][/,img] If I did not put the comma there you would not be able to see th etags as the message board would try to load apic that did not exist. Hope this helps.
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(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c361/TomDipace/VW_Bus/f016.jpg)
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c361/TomDipace/VW_Bus/3f58.jpg)
this is what my van looked like before I brought it to nmy budys for the swap I'll take some pics tomarrow of all the stuff
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c361/TomDipace/VW_Bus/DSC00960.jpg)
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c361/TomDipace/VW_Bus/DSC00958.jpg)
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c361/TomDipace/VW_Bus/DSC00961.jpg)
here are some pic's of the turbo I'm going to use
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please post pic of the head crack..sound slike a weird palce for a crack maybe it was a casting line thet when you wiped it collectedthe soot and giunk there..did you pressure test it?..trying to save ya some effort ..the td head is better then a regular head..
Thanks
Deo
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Sounds like a fun project. However, with the vanes fixed solid like that, you won't be able to extract the full powerband potential offered by the variable vane turbocharger.
Although you might find that with an external wastegate that the powerband is acceptable, even then I don't think it will perform much better than a stock (vaneless, internally wastegated) turbocharger.
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That bolt on the actuator arm was there when I bought the turbo and I haven't put a controler on it yet. I was going to do it like you fspGTD
on that rabbit. I drive a 1999 jetta tdi with 200,000 miles on it and the vnt I have that I can't use on my project only has 20,000 on it so I was going to swap them on my jetta then use the old actuator on my new turbo, that is unless I can find an actuator for my new turbo then I'll have a good high mineage turbo sitting around :wink: .
Well here are some pics of the engine with the bus tranny on it and the crack in the water jacket.
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c361/TomDipace/VW_Bus/DSC00962.jpg)
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c361/TomDipace/VW_Bus/DSC00963.jpg)
yha I snaped off the heads of the bolts to the rear water housing that's how I noticed the crack
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c361/TomDipace/VW_Bus/DSC00964.jpg)
If it was just me riding in the van I would risk it and see what happened but my wife is cronicly ill and if that crack makes it into the exhaust port and we end up on the side of the road that will also mean a trip to the ER :shock: for my wife and the time spent there is almost as long as it takes to change the head :? .
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Very good! Carry on! :P
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i can't seethe pics..did they work for others?
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sorry about that. I must have moved the pics in my photot bucket there back up now.
If you look closely you can see that the crack is shiny and not rust colored so it is fairly new. My guess is that it may have gotten to hot. The engine ran when I got it but there was only one foot of exhaust pipe hanging off the turbo and the water pump belt was so loose it could be sliped off the pully if you tried but would still move it slitely when running.
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Lots of hard deposits on the walls.
I wonder if thats just a crack in the hard deposits in your cooling sytem walls.
Still there if you chip some of those flakes away?
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The 5 pot engine bell housing bolt pattern is totaly different then the 4, sorry.
Here's an idea for you though -- that 5 cly Audi diesel will bolt right into a Porsche 924/944 8)
moT
FYI, there is a place where you can find a VW South Africa bellhousing specially built to match Vanagon 4cyl transmission with any VW 5cyl engine. But I don't know if vanagon 4cyl transmission have the same bolt pattern that other VW 4cyl transmissions ...
Here it is the link:
http://www.sa-teile.de/5cyl.html
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I like the KEP kit. It takes the hessel out of trying to get every thing to line up and on the engine side of the adapter there is a inspection hole so you can time the engine. I looked at the other engine I have and it has a small crack in the same place so I'm hopeing that it has something to do with casting :? . My camera died before I could get a pic of that or of the adapter I welded up to conect the vnt turbo to the old manifold. here are some pics of the existing turbo setup for comparison to the new set up when I can take some pics.the new turbo will sit 3" lower than the old one.
If you look at the adapter plate you can see the knock out for checking timing.When I first got the kit I couldn't figure out what it was for until I saw the timing marks on the back of the fly wheel.
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c361/TomDipace/VW_Bus/DSC00968.jpg)
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c361/TomDipace/VW_Bus/DSC00969.jpg)
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yep i looked in a bunch of my engines and i see the same "crack"..i think it just where the casting seam is..not a actual crack...hope this helps you..i can snap some pics today if you want..
thanks deo
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Just wondering why they only did it to one cylinder.
The system just draws the "soot" from one end of the exhaust manifold, it distributes the soot evenly to all cylinders via the intake manifold.
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Ruben,
Not absolutely sure, but I'm thinking that the 6 pot Volvo does share the same bolt pattern as the Audi 5. Pretty long engine for the 924, but you could probably make it fit.
V. Cool Project!
moT
Not as cool as putting a diesel in a 356!!! Got pics?!?!?
I'm hunting for a 911 "roller" with the same thing in mind. Looking to buy next summer. Have an adapter plate hanging on my garage wall.
How are you hoing to handle cooling?
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I am torn between mounting the rad under the floor boards where the after market ac condenser is with a ram scoop to the front of the van or mount it in the nose like on the mexican bus's but with a home made grill. I want it to look fairly stock. If I do it in the nose I'll have to be carefull about how high up I put it because I'm taking the complete under dash ac system from the donor car and mount it under the vans dash. I also have the ac system from a 1993 camaro that I am toying with the idea of puting under the back seat for dual zone ac. The motor from the Quantum had a power stearing pump on it that I pulled and I took the alternater bracket from my spare engine and installed in place of the pump so I can run dual atlinaters in the future.
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I remember seeing an H2O cooledvan in a really old issue of Hot VWs. You know how some vans mount spare tires on the front? They made a faux one and had the radiator inside. With all the surface area of the steel pipes running under the truck and that added capacity, they used a fairly small radiator. Looked very factory and wasn't noticeable unless you were very close.
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I've seen several setups online like that but it takes away from the simple smooth look. My old man used to drive me and my 3 siblings around in a 1975 vw van and it is a pasion of mine to have both the look and ride of the vans. The 1.6l td motor puts out 1 more horse stock than the original van engine and I'm not going to run the td too stock :twisted:
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I was looking at a similar conversion about a year ago... I was considering having a small radiator on either side of the engine compartment, and scoops by the grills that are there already. I think someone has a setup like that over on the shoptalkforums.
What are you going to use for a starter? Gear reduction?
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Some pictures of side cooling here:
http://www.birkmamero.de/news.htm
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I liked the idea of having the rads near the engine for convienence but I don't like the idea of having the rads dump heat into the engine bay. Those who have had an air cool can atest to the fack that you want heat away from the engine bay. The old set up I had was a stock engine with twin 2 barelle dellortos and a high flow exhaust and I was always over heating and the oil cooler I had didn, help much. Also the quantum rad is a good size and I want to mount the ac condenser with the rad for convinence. :wink: . I am going to use my stock van starter for now but when I get a chane to rebuild the motor I'm going to have to upgrade my starter.
addautomotive I love that site you posted lots of great vans I just wish I could read it to see all they have done.
here is a web site that sells actuators that mite work on the vnt with out modifiing
http://www.turbotechnics.com/docs/components/t2actuator.htm
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Sorry, not to highjack the thread, but:
Not as cool as putting a diesel in a 356!!! Got pics?!?!?
I'm hunting for a 911 "roller" with the same thing in mind. Looking to buy next summer. Have an adapter plate hanging on my garage wall.
How are you hoing to handle cooling?
(http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/9/web/2145000-2145999/2145693_9.jpg)
See my CarDomain site http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2145693/1
Your project sounds great too!
I'm sure you know that 912's are nearly the same, and are often much cheaper to buy, especialy after that poor overtaxed pushrod 4 gives up the ghost.
For cooling, I'm planning to mount a VW Fox rad next to the engine in a sealed fiberglass duct with a scoop down behind the rear axle, with an electric fan exhausting out the engine lid grills. The idea is to insure that the air that goes through the core is going to be at ambiant temp, not already heated by the engine.
Re: Kennedy adapter plates -- Bear in mind that they make those plates in a choice of 3 mounting angles, straight up, 15 degrees ala Rabbit/Jetta/Quantum, or 50 degrees ala Vanagon.
moT
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ok update time.
using angle iron and flat stock I made a sqaure tube to match the manifold out put and tow flangs. I welded them together and found that it put the turbo into the engine mount so I cut an inch out of the middle to give the turbo room and welded it back together. I took me a wile to clean up the mounting holes and wile it was still apart I welded up the inside corners on the turbo end to match the round input and ground it smooth.
when I went to bolt the turbo to the manafold I realized the most horrible thing. I welded it back together 180 degres reversed and the turbo was facing backwords. :oops: So I had to cut it apart again and reweld it back together.
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c361/TomDipace/VW_Bus/DSC00973.jpg)
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c361/TomDipace/VW_Bus/DSC00974.jpg)
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c361/TomDipace/VW_Bus/DSC00975.jpg)
finaly I got it welded right :evil:
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c361/TomDipace/VW_Bus/DSC00978.jpg)
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I opened up the turbo actuator and stated geting it ready to work on pressure instead of vacum.
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c361/TomDipace/VW_Bus/DSC00979.jpg)
I went ahead and put some spot welds in the bottom of the can to keep the spring travling. when I first held the spring in there I noticed that it could slide side to side and figured that would end up killing the diafram so I made a sort of seat.
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c361/TomDipace/VW_Bus/DSC00980.jpg)
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c361/TomDipace/VW_Bus/DSC00981.jpg)
Wile I had the can open I figured it would be cool to see the inside of a turbo that hasn't been used yet so here it is.
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c361/TomDipace/VW_Bus/DSC00982.jpg)
and here is how the turbo sits on the motor.
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c361/TomDipace/VW_Bus/DSC00983.jpg)
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c361/TomDipace/VW_Bus/DSC00985.jpg)
my wife just had to take a pic of me after having my fun for the day.
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c361/TomDipace/VW_Bus/DSC00987.jpg)
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Great progress, thanks for the update! That's cool you use angle iron to make a tube. The spot welds to keep the spring positioned is a nice innovation. You using a MIG for welding with oxy-acetylene for the rough cutting?
Keep up the good work! :P
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i'm following along over here, great work so far!
keep us posted with lots of pics. i'm planning to use a KEP adaptor as well.
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played some more on it today. Pulled the ac system from the donor quantum. I had a pair of Z28 seats that I installed. The drivers is electric :wink: . I am using a good MIG for welding but not a torch for cutting. A few years ago I bout a plasma cutter for a progect and that is what I am using for the rough cuts and I have a 4" grinder with a crap load of cut off disks.
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Cool conversion Tom!
I've got a '79 Westy I'm planning to convert to diesel.
I'd really like to see some pics of your engine mounted, especially any showing the motor mount mods mods/fabrication you've done.
Have you cut up the front for your rad yet? I've been thinking on rad placement a lot and figure I'll mount two rads in the engine compartment.
I've got some decent pics of a couple different bus's done that way if you'd like to see them.
Cheers,
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well it has been a wile since I could play on the van. here is the latest. I have cut the nose out of the van and welded in luvers. I have cut sections of the front out of the floor and removed the bolcky air box in the front for fresh air and started to make an air dam for the radiator. some thing has come up where I have to get it out of my friends garage so I put the old turbo back on to save time but I still will not be able to get it running before I leave town monday to bring my wife to virginai for xmas.
On the plus side, I have wanted to put a tdi in the van from the start but they are so hard to geta hold of. I found a wrecked tdi in tennesse and will be picing it up before xmas. the more I whent through the quantums engine the more broken bolts and striped out holes I found so this sould work out fpr the best. I haven't had time to get pic's lately but when I move the van today I will try to take some pic and up load them for you all to see.
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I remember many years ago a friend of mine in Texas made part of his living by installing the early Toyota 4 cyl motor with two small rads on each side of the rear of the VW Micro-bus and it worked great ...the rads were located close to the air vents...recently on a trip to Bracebridge Ont. I saw a type2 van with the jetta motor and the same jetta rad was placed in front of the tranny almost flush with the floor, but having one end hang down a little with some extra small scopes to direct the air in the front while the rest of the rad around the perimeter is boxed in..( I guess in this case a picture is worth a thousand words) you would not notice anything different about this van... he also had one flush mounted pullthru fan...when talking to him, I also found out that this method has been done in this area for a long time by several people and that he just came back from Utah and loved the way it pulled when needed with no problems....
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well here is the latest :(
The guy I was buying the wrecked jetta from as the donor called me the day before my 900 mile drive to pic it up to let me know that he sold it to someone localy. so I'm still going to use the quantums motor. I am going to pull the motor back out and do a quick rebuild when I get a chance since I am going to have to go ahead and use it. I was looking forward to using a tdi but the 1.6l td is still a good engine and it will be easyer to install.
Here is a pic of the front of the van
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c361/TomDipace/VW_Bus/DSC00996.jpg)
here is a pic of the engine in the van
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c361/TomDipace/VW_Bus/DSC00999.jpg)
this is hard to see but if you look closely through the stearing wheel you can see that the insterment cluster is out and you can see light through the luvers in the front
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c361/TomDipace/VW_Bus/DSC00998.jpg)
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AND SO THE PLANS CHANGE AGAIN :oops:
I have a lead on a tdi And the guy said he would hold it for me :lol:
I ran across this page here and am torn between witch way to install the motor. http://bb.bbboy.net/vwengineconversions-viewthread?forum=14&thread=19
I already have the adapter to mate my tranny to the engine but the other setup would give me a better center ov gravity and a 5 speed tranny :twisted:
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I will have to ree do the shifter linkage ether way if I don't use my stock tranny. If the donor car I'm geting has cruse cont. the pickup is in the tranny and I could swap out the whole insterment cluster to use the gauges, tack and speedo. the cpu would think it was in a passat and not a transporter. If I don't use the tranny I will have some clearance issuse from the back of the block and the gas tank(they both want to be in the same place) and I will have to come up with some way to get the insterments from the donor car to work with the cpu and mount in the dash.I would try to not have to use the donors suspension but connect the existing suspension to the tranny. lot of work but would be worth it in the end.
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The full engine/tranny/suspension/subframe transplant is interesting.
But it seems to create more problems to solve than a standard engine swap.
You'll have spring rates, shocks, track width, ebrake and a bunch of other stuff to sort out. I can't see adapting the front of a jetta/golf to work in the back of bus being easy.
Good luck with it whichever swap you decide to do.
And thanks for posting your progress and the pics.
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well I don't think that I will do the swap and not because of the dificults in it. I would not change out the suspension. My idea was to mount the engine and tranny in the normal layout (IE engine on the right tranny on the left.) I would mount it so the pickup for the axles on the tranny would match the location of the old bus trany there looks like there is enough space so the suspention would clear the engine and trany. Relocate the fuel tank since it would be where the engine needs to be. and make custom shift cables for the trany since it was cable operated and not linkage.
the reason that I don't think that I will do it that way is because the donor car I got is a 1996 passat tdi that was in a front end accident and I would normaly not care about choping the car up but the inside is realy nice and the car is in over all good shape so if I can get the new fenders,hood and rad/suport ect.ect. it would be a nicer car to drive that my 1999 jetta tdi and it is so much more roomy. and it has half the mileage. only 80K compaired to 200k on the jetta but I don't think I could cut into the jetta ether so now I got myself into another progect. Oh well at least it is better than doing drugs and my wife doesn't get mad because I'm not aroud other wemon :wink: