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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: LregG on May 16, 2008, 03:05:09 pm
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Hello guys and girls, how are we all??
A little about myself before we get down to why i am on here, my name is gregg, i'm 31 and i live in the UK. I've been into VW's for many a year with my main passion being for polos.
I currently own a 1980 mk1 polo that is running CBR 600 motorbike carbs on a 10:1 C/R 1272cc 8v crossflow that is running around 100bhp that weighs 685Kg. I also have a mk2 "breadvan" in beige that was running a G40 engine with a T25 from a saab 9000 runing 21, yes 21psi boost giving between 190-210bhp in a car that weighs 760Kg. Go to youtube and search for "the beige beast" to see it in action.
WHY I AM HERE>
Right, in germany the mk3 polo was available as a diesel but not in england, however the same engine can be found in england in a seat terra van, odd but true. I bought a seat terra with 28k miles on it purely for the engine. The engine code is 1W which is a naturally aspirated 1398cc 22:1 compression ratio 8v crossflow diesel engine.
Why am i telling you all this??
Well, my plan is to fit a golf GTD fuel pump and injectors and run a GT15 turbo at around a bar boost on it as it turns out that the GTD engine is around the same compression ratio (is that right??) so i'm guesssing it should not be a problem?? The turbo is off of a saab 9-3 that would usually run 115bhp so i know it will flow well enough.
I also have a chargecooler that will be used (under bonnet space is limited in a mk2 polo!) along with an oil cooler and the car is already fitted with a 2.5" exhaust system. The exhaust manifold will be custom made as well a 2.5" downpipe so i'm hoping for good results.
Do you think it will work?? If not, why not?? I know you gtd guys fit 1.9 pump and injectors to your 1.6 engines to allow more boost to be used so i'm thinking the 1.6 turbo pump and injectors on the 1.4 engine will work in the same manner??
I've played with petrol engines as far as i think i can, carb to injection, supercharger to turbos etc but i've never played with a diesel myself so comments from more knowledgable people than myself are more than welcome :D
Also can we keep this on here only please people as if it can and does work then i think this will be a first in the U.K.
Thanks for your help in advance
Gregg
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if it all bolts up, it should be fine.. I've never even heard of a 1.4 though..
it is a 4 cylinder right?
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1.4 is a 3 cyl I believe.
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I thought so too... except that he also says "8v".... so now I'm not so sure.
Either way, with cooling and proper oil and strong headbolts and gasket it should hang together reasonably well... if the manifold bolts up !!
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Cheers for the replies guys :D , it is a 4 cylinder, here is the specification borrowed from carfolio > http://www.carfolio.com/specifications/models/car/?car=24948
Volkswagen Polo/Seat terra 1.4d Specifications
Engine code: 1W
Bore × stroke= 75.00 mm × 79.10 mm (2.95 in × 3.11 in)
Cylinders 4
Displacement 1398 cc (85.311 cu in)
single overhead camshaft
2 valves per cylinder (8 valves in total)
Compression ratio 22.30:1 (golf gtd is 23:1??)
Maximum power 48.0 bhp @ 4500 rpm
Maximum torque 63 ft·lb @ 3500 rpm
Main bearings 5
A few points that i hope will make this little project work and work well??
1) This engine uses oil jets to keep the pistons cool (same as the gtd i have heard)
2) The head bolts are bigger and more manly than used in all of the other petrol polo engines (including the G40)
3) The head gasket will (hopefully) be the metal one used from the later 1.4 16v petrol engine if it proves to be thick enough and the head bolts will fit through it, with careful modification if need be
4) The engine oil will be kept as cool as possible with my front mounted oil cooler fed from my oil filter relocation kit used to allow the use of the larger golf oil filter and to save valuable under bonnet space
5) Inlet temps will be kept as cool as possible with my modified golf 20v turbo chargecooler from jabbasport (heard of them??)
6) The downpipe and exhaust system will be in 2.5" stainless
7) The golf GTD fuel pump and injectors will suppy enough fuel for what i have planned (i hope)
8 ) The exhaust manifold is the same fitment as all the 8 valve petrol engines so i can easily adapt one to make use of the GT15 turbo that i already have
9) The turbo is usually found on a 2.3 litre diesel that produces 115 bhp at 0.9 bar boost so it should be spot on for what i want to acheive
10) If possible, i would like to fit the air filter directly behind the grill for as much cold air as possible for the turbo feed off from. I may even try to make a heat shield/air filter box to help matters further
11) I'm thinking of welding a larger inlet plenum to the polo inlet manifold as the polo one will be restrictive in a turbo application. I'm thinking the 20v turbo one i have will do nicely
What do you guys think?? Have i missed anything??
Thanks in advance
Gregg
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hey dude, Rubadub from ClubPolo here
have you thought about going down the other route? usinga mk4 Polo 1.9 block and adding a turbo to that?
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hey dude, Rubadub from ClubPolo here
have you thought about going down the other route? usinga mk4 Polo 1.9 block and adding a turbo to that?
Hello mate, no, i hadn't thought of that to be honest. The thing is that the gearbox will be a weak link, especially 5th gear what with all the torque the 1.4 engine will produce, let alone a 1.9 :D
Keep this quiet though yeah :wink:
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I saw a post about one of these with a supercharger AND a turbo somewhere..
you can't use a GTD pump, it turns the other way around. all you can do is try to make a fankenpump out of the two.
ps: your breadvan seems.. slow, or is it the footage tha makes it appear that way?
take a look a this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6BkuTHcpIQ
its from a friend, this was one "weak" stage, after that it got toothed pulleys and a few other tricks.
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I saw a post about one of these with a supercharger AND a turbo somewhere..
you can't use a GTD pump, it turns the other way around. all you can do is try to make a fankenpump out of the two.
ps: your breadvan seems.. slow, or is it the footage tha makes it appear that way?
take a look a this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6BkuTHcpIQ
its from a friend, this was one "weak" stage, after that it got toothed pulleys and a few other tricks.
You can use the pump mate, you've just got to make up fuel lines from the pump to the injectors as the firing order will be wrong, the pump will pump regardless of direction of rotation, so i've been told anyhow (the pump is driven from the opposite end of the camshaft via a belt you see!)
Breadvan seems slow?? Try this video> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJD3Zp56Hgk&NR=1 that's 4th gear from off boost and the speedo is in mph
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Have a look around on the vortex. I know I have seen a thread out there by E-Code Parts. He sells the 3cyl 14.L and 1.2L TDIs here in the states.
Accroding to his posts they are a direct bolt in for the MKI Rabbit / Golfs and Polos.
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Cheers ziptar but i already have the 4 cyilnder 1.4d engine so it seems mad to swap to something else
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ahh so it was the footage ;)
much better. how much boost?
the VE pump can't work reversed, its designed to rotate on one sense or the other.
I believe the difference is in the feed pump, cam, head and plunger.
there should be other small differences, but believe me, it WONT pump when wound the other way.
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ahh so it was the footage ;)
much better. how much boost?
the VE pump can't work reversed, its designed to rotate on one sense or the other.
I believe the difference is in the feed pump, cam, head and plunger.
there should be other small differences, but believe me, it WONT pump when wound the other way.
OK, i'll have to make two pulleys running off of one another of the same size for the camshaft and injection pump to get it to spin the right way then, not a problem 8)
The breadvan was running 15psi in that video
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good idea, 1.6TD pump bracket could be modified to your engine? just a thought.
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good idea, 1.6TD pump bracket could be modified to your engine? just a thought.
and run off of the crank in it's normal position?? No, it would be in the way of the turbo or oil filter take off
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I believe the difference is in the feed pump, cam, head and plunger.
there should be other small differences, but believe me, it WONT pump when wound the other way.
The feed pump is the same, but the case is different. It is machined to send the feed pump pressure to the opposite side of the timing advance piston making the advance go the other way. The plungers are different. Camplates are reversed, but on an IDI that's not all that significant.
Andrew
So just reverse the camplate and it should work counter-clockwise??
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your pump isn't that bad. if you can just adapt the LDA device you should get a decent setup.
what libbypappa meant is that on a IDI the camplate has almost the same profile on both up and down part of the lobes, so it should be the same running normal or backwards, but just that part, everything else doesnt run backwards.
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your pump isn't that bad. if you can just adapt the LDA device you should get a decent setup.
LDA device??
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Just found a picture of the engine put can't post it in image tags for some reason?? here's the url link to it> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v499/royalblue8vgti/24112006.jpg?t=1211041045
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Cheers andrew, i'll see what i can come up with then, still waiting on the pump to arrive
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lda is what puts more fuel in according to boost. as the stock pump doesn't have it it will work, but you get smoke off boost, or not enough power on boost, depending on what you do with the max fuel screw.
if I were you, I would put gtd injectors if possible, leave the IP alone and turbo it. (you already mentioned the cooling system mods)
then after its working, tweak if necessary.
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v499/royalblue8vgti/24112006.jpg)
no, the other way around, the engine is backwards on the picture, left side: flywheel, IP driven off the end of the camshaft, like the 5cyl engines.
right side= like every other vw engine
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cam is driven by the cambelt from the crank, the cam drives the fuel pump and vacuum pump by a double sided belt via a toothed pulley on the pump side
EDIT: thanks gigaz, i must have chopped off the .jpg part of the picture location lol
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Why swap the whole pump when the only bit you need is an LDA?
There are plenty of pump tops out there with LDA that have the throttle lever on either side of the centre line.
I'm 99% sure that a pump top from another vehicle will fit your pump.
I have a few bits of pump under my bench at work, I'm back on moday, give us a ring.
01484 519 800, ask for Simon.
Do you know Dan Knight from the Polo forum? DKnight? mate of mine thats all, lives fairly close.
Do you not fancy a G40 on there? theres another thread here about one in Europe, looks 'kin ace to be honest!
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http://vwdiesel.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=8398&start=120
There is a guy here doing something with this engine...I think. Instead of the LDA and turbo you could go with a super charger of some kind here and it might be spinning the correct way. Just a thought for you to kick around.
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I have a few bits of pump under my bench at work, I'm back on moday, give us a ring.
01484 519 800, ask for Simon.
I will do simon, i have a gtd pump and injectors and new nozzles on their way to me and i have a spare 1.4 idi pump as well :D If the LDA can be fitted then it would save me a lot of hassle.
Yeah, i know of dan, he sells stickers i think??
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http://vwdiesel.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=8398&start=120
There is a guy here doing something with this engine...I think. Instead of the LDA and turbo you could go with a super charger of some kind here and it might be spinning the correct way. Just a thought for you to kick around.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v499/royalblue8vgti/g4014d.jpg)
sjampoo has G40 supercharged this engine already and his work looks top class to me 8) He is running very lean with no LDA at the moment!!! I can't see how he'll fit on as his metal boost pipe will be in the way??
He has tweaked the injectors to 280bar to run veggie, he has also run heaters etc so he can cold start on veggie too!!
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8)
There is no "lean" with a Diesel.
they are throttled by fuel, and only reach stoichometric at full chat.
Basically, the engine is allowed to ingest as much air as it wants, then fuel is added to it to raise engine speed.
With no LDA all thats happening is that the engine isn't getting any extra fuel on boost, above and beyond what is already there, it will work but can be much much better with LDA.
Have a read of some of the other LDA threads, it may make much more sense then.
E-mail me at [email protected] and I'll send you something to help.
:)
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email sent mate
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:)
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:)
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cheers simon, i'll read that when i'm not hungover, probably tomorrow lol
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Er,,? Is the flow from the GLader sent through the cambox to the rear of the engine? :? Assuming it is, and there is a camshaft in the way does that mean the entire engine is pressurized? Bizarre! :P
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Er,,? Is the flow from the GLader sent through the cambox to the rear of the engine? :? Assuming it is, and there is a camshaft in the way does that mean the entire engine is pressurized? Bizarre! :P
It may seem that way mate but there is a sealed pipe running through the rocker cover, it is used for the boost return to the 'charger
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Yes: the pipe inside the valvecover is sealed,. but in my setup, there is no return :)
(you can see a pipe yes, on the metal -intake, that 'looks' like a blow-off or return-thingy, but its just a dead end :)
I used original Polo 2 G40 hoses and tubing, which are rare. Didn't want to cut it up in pieces, and I do need the breather (from crank-housing), to 'oil/lubricate' the G-chargers internals.. (which you can see towards the rear).
it is 'lean' as in: It could cope with some more fuel, but there just isn't a possibility to give it more fuel without a higher idle. Governor needs to be modded (slightly): when I floor it at idle, it doesn't smoke - at all - : Not to say that it has to smoke, but it just isn't - at all -
Anyways: love the torque; it's just there. From 1500 to 4000 rpm: all the way. No need to rev it at all..
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Any progress????