VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.
General Information => General => Topic started by: LoneWolf on May 04, 2008, 08:53:35 am
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ive seen a few people on here mention that they run on cooking oil instead of diesel, now i know a little about bio-diesel, but what im wondering, is can you just use a mix of 80% diesel and 20% oil straight away, or would you have to modify anything? If so, what?
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you can run a mix like that no prob. just be sure to filter the oil good and get as much water out as possible.
some guys run 50/50 mixes without issues in warm climates (or summer time as winter time the fuel will most likely congeal)
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Check this for most info on running on waste vegetable oils:
http://ecoAuto.ca/
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Cheers guys :)
do any of you happen to know if there are any problems with using new oil rather than "reclaimed" oil?
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Well starting last week I am running 50/50 Diesel & veg oil.
So far - 500 miles in - no problems - apart from developing an obsession with the price of veg oil at every store within a 20 mile radius.
Oh and the back of my car smells like a chippy.
I am just keeping track of how many litres of diesel goes in & matching it with veg oil from tescos / bookers / etc
The price difference at the moment makes it worth while - 83p a litre for veg oil vs £1.18 for diesel. - I save about £20 a tank.
Which is nice.
we'll see how it goes :wink:
DD
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DD, are you going to AllTypes?
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DD, are you going to AllTypes?
Nah!
[Edited to stay on thread] :D .
DD
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If you use new oil then i hope you can get it way cheaper than diesel. Last year diesel and new VO was the same price here when bought in 20 liter jugs. Now of course diesel is more $ so... One advantage of using new oil is no issues with pre filtering or water. If you can get good waste oil,preferably canola, then you'll be happy that you won't have to be drawn into the food for fuel debate.
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Go here for more info.:
http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/cfrm/f/898605551
hth :)
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If you use new oil then i hope you can get it way cheaper than diesel. Last year diesel and new VO was the same price here when bought in 20 liter jugs. Now of course diesel is more $ so... One advantage of using new oil is no issues with pre filtering or water. If you can get good waste oil,preferably canola, then you'll be happy that you won't have to be drawn into the food for fuel debate.
yeah... at the moment new veg oil is about %70 the cost of diesel - so just worth it. The situation here in the UK is that you do not have to pay tax on the 1st 2500 litres of Veg oil used for fuel - after that you need to pay around 1 USD per litre :shock: ontop of the fuel cost.
Well on a 50 / 50 mix that equates to about 45,000 miles so I should be ok.
I am looking at building a cheap filter system, but currently lack a workshop / garage of my own. Would be nice though' could get the WVO waaaay cheaper & could sell on about 75 - 100 litres a month to offset costs, while still having enough for 'personal use' so to speak & avoiding the whole fuel/food thingy as a bonus.
Ideas?
DD
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Mixing is never good. If you do not want to use Diesel or Biodiesel then you need to use a two-tank system to properly heat the oil before it reaches the engine.
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Mixing is never good.
Why? Many others seem to do this without problem.
If you do not want to use Diesel or Biodiesel then you need to use a two-tank system to properly heat the oil before it reaches the engine.
It was my understanding pre-heating the oil is more of an issue in colder climates and for running 100% oil. Its nice and mild here, pretty much all the time - when winter rolls round I'll either go back to a higher diesel mix or make myself a fuel heater setup.
DD
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mixing is fine in the summer... just don't do it in the winter. i'd add some anti gel additive just in case though, but then again sometimes it gets pretty nippy here at night...
considering how hot the pre chambers get, i wouldn't be worried... i would consider a 10% veg mix on a TDI, but i dunno...
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Why? Many others seem to do this without problem.
Lots of people do cocaine without problems too, that doesn't mean its the smart choice.
It was my understanding pre-heating the oil is more of an issue in colder climates and for running 100% oil.
Preheating the oil is important in EVERY climate year round. The oil must be at least 160*F before it reaches the injection pump, I doubt many people live in a climate with those kinds of temperatures.
considering how hot the pre chambers get, i wouldn't be worried... i would consider a 10% veg mix on a TDI, but i dunno...
It is not the prechambers that need the heating, it is the injection system.
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Why? Many others seem to do this without problem.
Lots of people do cocaine without problems too, that doesn't mean its the smart choice.
Glib answer - do you have one that has supporting information?
It was my understanding pre-heating the oil is more of an issue in colder climates and for running 100% oil.
Preheating the oil is important in EVERY climate year round. The oil must be at least 160*F before it reaches the injection pump, I doubt many people live in a climate with those kinds of temperatures.
You state that the oil must be at 160*F... obviously with my setup it isn't. Why is this an issue?
I know that mixing is not as ideal in some ways as a multi-tank system with fuel heating etc, but then its a less than perfect world I live in.
Lets get one thing straight - I'm not looking for an argument, just information supported by verifiable facts & figures and experience rather than just opinion.
if you have that then great, I'm happy to be proven wrong. :wink:
DD
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http://biodiesel.infopop.cc
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http://biodiesel.infopop.cc
Cool.
Thanks. Much reading ahead methinks... :wink:
DD
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still seems to me like the higher temperatures in the pre chambers really do help burn the VO, except for the fact that it takes a few minutes for it to heat up properly... and that is under normal driving... and so before that the fuel can do bad things inside. but still having a fuel mix should be ok.
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and so before that the fuel can do bad things inside. but still having a fuel mix should be ok.
Its the pump that is the primary concern, especially you VW guys since the pump depends on the fuel for lubrication. Cold oil is viscous and solvents have no lubrication benefit.
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when we converted my dads truck to wvo it already had 2 tanks so we just heated the lines in the front tank with coolant. when the truck warmed up we switched to wvo!
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im confused :?
are we saying you can use oil on a standard engine, or do we have to modify???
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Biodiesel can be used as-is, WVO/SVO (besides being illegal as a fuel in the USA) must be heated before it reaches the injection pump.
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What law states that its illegal?We collected oil next to some police the other day and they didnt seem to care ,and we werent looking very professional if you know what i mean(mechanical hand pump w/white poly drum in the back of a dodge prospector. :D ).
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WVO and SVO do not have EPA approval to be used on public roads and most users fail to pay the required road taxes in states that do not exempt it.
The police didn't do anything because they were ignorant. They didn't know you were going to do anything illegal with it, they probably didn't even know you could do anything illegal with it!
Many places also have a contract with a removal company to haul and recycle the waste. If they catch you taking their oil they can prosecute for theft.
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Thats fair enough, but the UK seems to have its own rules and rubbish about everything :roll:
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Thats fair enough, but the UK seems to have its own rules and rubbish about everything :roll:
you're not kidding mate! :roll:
4.2.1 Exempt producers/users
If you have produced or used less than 2,500 litres of:
any biofuel, or
any other fuel substitute or additive
within the last 12 months, and/or expect to produce or use less than 2,500 litres in the next 12 months, you are an exempt producer and do not need to register with HMRC and account for duty. However, there are simple record-keeping requirements, which are described in paragraph 4.9.1.
Production includes the manufacture or processing of road fuel, and the setting aside of any product that has not been charged with duty, with the intention of using it as road fuel.
for the full monty see :
http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pageExcise_ShowContent&id=HMCE_CL_000205&propertyType=document
DD
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WVO/SVO must be heated before it reaches the injection pump.
wrong wrong wrong :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :evil:
you can blend svo with diesel as long as the temperature is above 0-degress celsius without any problems at all :!: we are many here that have been doing so for many years :wink: 50/50 is absolutley no problem at all :!:
no need to heat :!:
however it is better to heat :wink: you can run 100% veggi oil then and att any temperature :wink: :P
the only thing you MUST have if you want to blend is a prechamber/swirlchamber engine and preferably a mechanical bosch type inj-pump (lucas, electrical, DI, doesn't work any satisfactory and break easy)
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the other issue to be careful of is that spraying cold VO into the cylinders can cause glazing of the rings and walls and coking of the injectors. Not an issue if the motor gets torn down every couple of years ,but if you want to have a long lasting motor and injection system then it's way better to use a 2 tank setup. I had VO valve problems in the early spring and had a blend of VO and diesel in my diesel tank. Truck started rough as hell , stalling ,hunting. Even in summer where it gets cool at night it would need a proper set up. I had a guy who was using alot of grease [not oil ] and in July the truck wouldn't start unless he took a heat gun to the injectors and IP. I got into this because one of my customers has been doing this for 15 years . He never damaged an engine but went through at least 3 pumps. He didn't have any preheating ,just some a homemade heatexchanger that was 3 inches long [how effective could it be]. Some tests have shown that if you don't heat the VO to at least 60 oC you are probably increasing emmisions rather than lowering them when it is heated. Anybody can do what they want to see what works, but
i will never run a diesel cold on VO again
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. I had VO valve problems in the early spring and had a blend of VO and diesel in my diesel tank. Truck started rough as hell , stalling ,hunting. Even in summer where it gets cool at night it would need a proper set up. I had a guy who was using alot of grease [not oil ] and in July the truck wouldn't start unless he took a heat gun to the injectors and IP. I got into this because one of my customers has been doing this for 15 years . He never damaged an engine but went through at least 3 pumps. He didn't have any preheating ,just some a homemade heatexchanger that was 3 inches long [how effective could it be]. Some tests have shown that if you don't heat the VO to at least 60 oC you are probably increasing emmisions rather than lowering them when it is heated. Anybody can do what they want to see what works, but
i will never run a diesel cold on VO again
been doing this myself for 2 years now 40 000km: i have no problems with cold start at -15celsius no rough starting, no additional smoke when cold.starting, no rough running engine and NO problems, been blending 70%vegoil 30% diesel in the summer and about 50/50 when its just above freezing and below freezing pure "crap"diesel
dino diesel gives a rougher running, more smoke and less power 1sec less on a 80-120km/h on 4th gear 3sec less on 80-120km/h on 5th gear :evil: :P (and it also smells like ***)
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[wrong wrong wrong :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :evil:
you can blend svo with diesel as long as the temperature is above 0-degress celsius without any problems at all :!: we are many here that have been doing so for many years :wink: 50/50 is absolutley no problem at all :!:
no need to heat :!:
however it is better to heat :wink: you can run 100% veggi oil then and att any temperature :wink: :P
the only thing you MUST have if you want to blend is a prechamber/swirlchamber engine and preferably a mechanical bosch type inj-pump (lucas, electrical, DI, doesn't work any satisfactory and break easy)
False information above.
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False information above.
the only one giving false information is you and caveman :!: :evil:
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the only one giving false information is you and caveman :!: :evil:
Wrong again, single tanking it (solvent thinning) is not only wrong information but it will lead to premature engine death due to injection system wear, oil contamination, carbon buildup and glycerin coating of the piston rings and combustion chamber.
Single tank "conversions" (aka, solvent thinning) are pure operator laziness. If you want to burn WVO/SVO then get off you butt, build a proper two tank system and do it right.
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Single tank "conversions" (aka, solvent thinning) are pure operator laziness
go and tell ELSBETT.com that they are lazy :!:
some of us only have a chance to drive our cars because of the abilety of blending, it has nothing to do with lazyness and all to do about money and being able to live normal life on our low incomes without being forced moving to the big city, buying a house/apartment we can't afford :!:
since you are obviosly a expert, just like the ones that many years ago told us that the earth was flat and earth was centre of universe we should all bow down to you and belive what you say :!:
no matter how many people i can get testamonies from and even torn down engine-pictures without any damage or coked or whatever it's obviously a miracle, we must have som special oils over here and special engines too, probably sent from aliens with some high tech technology :roll: