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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: rackley on April 22, 2005, 04:36:40 pm
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I have a 91 Jetta Diesel with a TD transplanted into it.
I'm having an absolute hell of a time getting the AC and Alternator belts working right.
I've tried Goodyear, NAPA, OEM, and now even the $15 Gatorback belts. They all do the same thing - I tighten them down to spec, then they flap around when the car runs (even when tight! very strange!), then they just stretch out until they're about to flap off. So then I have to adjust the tension on both, and after about 2-3 adjustments there's no adjustment room left on the alternator pulley. At this point the belt just keeps getting looser and looser until it squeals and then eventually just flys off.
This all takes place over the course of maybe 20-25 miles. So it's extremely fast. My AC spins very freely. My alternator pulley is very stable and is in good shape as far as I can tell. My alternator pulley has a little surface rust but I don't think that's the issue. Once again, they have a tendancy to flap around like mad. My PS/WP belt does not exhibit this same behavior.
Does anyone have any idea why this could be happening? I can't even drive the car more than 30 minutes without having the belts squeal and risk flying off. Am I alone in this plight?
Thanks,
Ray
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I fought v-belt problems on my Rabbit for years, and it progressively got worse. Changing to a brand new alternator which was a different kind, including replacing the pulley with a brand new one, was revealing: I noticed that the belt no longer needed to be tightened anywhere near as much to get the alternator to "hook up" without squealing, etc. Also visually inspecting the way the belt sits in the pulley, it sits much nicer in the pulley. On close visual inspection of the original alternator pulley, I found that it was no longer conical shaped but was compound conical shaped with a convex profile. This would not allow the belt to sit with full contact as it wold only contact at the edges, and is why it would need ungodly belt tension to make enough "traction" the alternator needs. This high amount of belt tension and also the deforming the belt does as it goes through the alternator leads to very short V-belt life. So, I guess the short story is... replace your alternator pulley with a brand new one.
I just bought a replacement pulley kit for dad's '84 Rabbit bosch alternator from the dealer (included both pulley halves, nut, spacer, etc), and I felt that the cost was not unreasonable at about $30. As I found signs of wear on his pulley and also signs of early belt disintegration on a belt I know I installed myself not that long ago. A new pulley sure beats breaking belts!
There is potential for the belt to get wound around the crankshaft pulley by the way, burn through the plastic lower timing belt cover, and take out the timing belt. I've had it happen once to me before, and it ruined a really good head (pistons hit valves, valves bent, camshaft broke into several pieces, piston tops got marred, couldn't have done the bottom end any good, etc.)
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Yep, I've been thinking about replacing the pulleys just because I've already replaced the belts who knows how many times in the last month. However, I was looking at whole alternators, I didn't know the dealer would sell just the pulleys.
Excellent call.
One thing I truely hate about the daisy-chained belt system is that you don't know where the problem is. Both the AC and Alt belt oscillate like mad at cold idle but once the thing warms up a bit they seem to calm down. By oscillate I mean you can look at them and even though you tightened them down to only about 3-4mm of play with a stiff finger push, they're bouncing around a good 5mm up and 5mm down from their "normal" path. The AC belt is even worse, it flaps around like mad. Now this is obviously a problem with either the belt geometry or one of the belts is transferring force in an impulse fashion...really stiff resistance one microsecond and then really loose the next. The thing is, who knows which one it is!
:idea: I could take off the alternator belt and see if the AC belt does it by itself... :idea: Hmm, once I fix the trans I'll have to do this.
So I'll do the alternator pulley and alternator tensioner pulley first, if that doesn't work then I'll do the crank pulley as well.
Thanks for the tip :D
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my guess would be worn bearings in either the AC compressor or the alternator. Grab the pulleys and try to move them vertically up and down. If they move at all, consider that any movement is multiplied exponentially as it is transmitted from the bearing through the pulleys to the belt. In order to have adjustment capabilities in the alternator bracket, there needs to be no movement in either the alternator or the AC bearings.
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Just replaced an alternator pulley on an '84 Rabbit Diesel... check it out here: http://www.vwdiesel.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=1306&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=87
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The alternator on my A2 was loose.
The hole near the pully, around the big swivel bolt, was worn to an oval.
This allowed the alternator to lean in too far.
I took a piece of 3/8" stainless, about 3/4" to 1" long and ground one side all the way off. I took the half pipe and hammered it around the long alternator bolt.
I put the bolt into the alternator and tightened it, pressing the stainless half pipe into the alternator hole, where it had worn.
Tightened it up but it still moves around a little when I move the throttle lever and rev the engine.
I've done this to most of my A1s too.
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I have a 91 Jetta Diesel with a TD transplanted into it.
I'm having an absolute hell of a time getting the AC and Alternator belts working right.
I've tried Goodyear, NAPA, OEM, and now even the $15 Gatorback belts. They all do the same thing - I tighten them down to spec, then they flap around when the car runs (even when tight! very strange!), then they just stretch out until they're about to flap off. So then I have to adjust the tension on both, and after about 2-3 adjustments there's no adjustment room left on the alternator pulley. At this point the belt just keeps getting looser and looser until it squeals and then eventually just flys off.
This all takes place over the course of maybe 20-25 miles. So it's extremely fast. My AC spins very freely. My alternator pulley is very stable and is in good shape as far as I can tell. My alternator pulley has a little surface rust but I don't think that's the issue. Once again, they have a tendancy to flap around like mad. My PS/WP belt does not exhibit this same behavior.
Does anyone have any idea why this could be happening? I can't even drive the car more than 30 minutes without having the belts squeal and risk flying off. Am I alone in this plight?
Thanks,
Ray
I dont know if this will help, I have a 81 Jetta that gave me a fit and I change out the double shev pulley off a Sandon compressor that came off a BullDozer, the reason was to be rid of the narrow v section pulley on the Alternator and the pulley of the dozer the v sections were the same. I had to replace the pulley on the alternator but I never had a bit of trouble again or slipping belt. I had enough of that narrow belt. Jim
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I had a good fight with my brothers '89 yesterday. It had soo many issues with the belts. :shock: The crank pulley was sticking out further than all the others, the alternator pulley was worn out, the alternator was leaning, the car bit me and drew blood, etc. Anyway, I pulled the alternator and filed down the left hand boss which goes into the IP mount. This was done for alignment as we didn't have different thickness washers to shim the alternator. Even so, the alternator pulley was still out 1/2" by the time the belt got to the crank. I had to loosen the main bolt and pound a big'ole washer between the boss and the mount to straigten that out. The new pulley was quite a bit deeper so I had to remove the two inboard spacers against the fan. This prevented me from tightening the bolt down onto the shaft so I had to pound out and reuse the slotted washers from the previous pulley. After pulling the alternator 5 times we still hadn't gotten the two other accessory pulleys lined up with the alternator and crankshaft. We were just happy to have made things better than they were before.
Steve
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I'm waiting on my third alternator pulley from 1stvwparts.com because the first two they sent me didn't fit correctly. The first was for the non-AC car, and the second was for the non-bosch alternator and I have a bosch. Just a real PITA when it takes them a week to get it and then another week to ship it here. That's 2 weeks per part x 3 parts, or a month and a half. For a stinking alternator pulley. Note to self, go through local dealership next time unless it's a really expensive part with a really steep discount.
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I'm waiting on my third alternator pulley from 1stvwparts.com because the first two they sent me didn't fit correctly. The first was for the non-AC car, and the second was for the non-bosch alternator and I have a bosch. Just a real PITA when it takes them a week to get it and then another week to ship it here. That's 2 weeks per part x 3 parts, or a month and a half. For a stinking alternator pulley. Note to self, go through local dealership next time unless it's a really expensive part with a really steep discount.
I had to replace my belt a few days ago and it had been on the engine for around 5 years or so. I have found the lawn mower belts are of good quality and dont strech like standard belts. If you could find a belt that would fit like that perhaps that might work for you, good luck, JimK
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OK the mystery has been solved. Apparently the dim-wit that had the car before me put on the WRONG alternator when he got a replacement. It was from a VW and bolted in and mostly worked, but the pulley was different and didn't protrude the correct amount.
I ordered a junkyard alternator and when I looked at the pulley I could immediately tell it was different from the one currently on the car. Just for ht heck of it, I took that pulley off, replaced it with the new 2nd pulley I got from 1stvwparts.com and bolted it up and it looks perfectly aligned. The pulley that's *supposed* to fit my car and my alternator actually fits now. (fingers crossed that it actually works when I fire the car up this weekend).
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Well it appears I spoke too soon. It's pulling the same junk as the last one did. New alternator, new pulley, new tensioner pulley. Still flaps like mad when there's a load (like glow plugs on startup) which stretches the belt and makes it unusable in a matter of minutes. The AC belt doesn't exhibit any kind of abnormal behavior that I can see.
Grumble.. :evil:
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Well it appears I spoke too soon. It's pulling the same junk as the last one did. New alternator, new pulley, new tensioner pulley. Still flaps like mad when there's a load (like glow plugs on startup) which stretches the belt and makes it unusable in a matter of minutes. The AC belt doesn't exhibit any kind of abnormal behavior that I can see.
Grumble.. :evil:
I know rackley's post is 7 years old but I would like to know if there was a resolution to the mystery.
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I had this belt system on my previous 1.9AAZ build, it came from MKII.
Like you, my alternator belt flopped and loosen and I rarely ever go over 20K miles before replacement.
Then I created a counter pulley.
I took a longer bolt on the back of the ALT BRKT under the INJ pump and threaded the shank to match the OEM bolt, then shaved the threads where it came out of the mount. Then I took a small 2" pulley with bearing that I bought from a lawn mower shop, shaved the outside edges to fit the area without rubbing, put it on thus geting more belt contact with the pulley.
My belts stopped flopping, they lasted. My voltage came up, obviously the OEM setup had slippage, and with more pulley contact my slippage was nill.
I pulled that engine and put in another AAZ with serpentine. Love it. Sweet. Still have that counter pulley in my shop.
Wayne
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...Then I created a counter pulley....
Like this?
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-OyY60nljpac/TOWqwYb_D6I/AAAAAAAAAV4/QgPXLMvRAJc/s800/IMG_8512.JPG)
I test this setup for a year; in the warm weather it was fine, but I found in the cold weather, the lugs would rip off the belt, so it is running stock for now.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-6wg7IieAU0M/TrxuZ8XRiHI/AAAAAAAAAew/_aPFhE_OwAA/s640/IMG_8922.JPG)
More puzzling, is the stock system on my '89 works pretty well.
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Here's my solution a gates 10x675 for alt and a gates 13x955 I think it is. I replaced stock idler with a timing belt tensioner on same adjustable system as the old idler. I used a few jam nuts on the adjusting bolt to hold it in a fixed postion whilst still being able to adjust the idler tension. no real miles on it yet but it is smooth at idle in my garage.
(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b75/bendover817/2012-10-19192150.jpg)
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............................................
I test this setup for a year; in the warm weather it was fine, but I found in the cold weather, the lugs would rip off the belt, so it is running stock for now.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-6wg7IieAU0M/TrxuZ8XRiHI/AAAAAAAAAew/_aPFhE_OwAA/s640/IMG_8922.JPG)
More puzzling, is the stock system on my '89 works pretty well.
I wonder if a non lug belt will work better? No lugs to shed.
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Mine is an idler pulley slightly larger, but the same concept. Belt bends are not as drastic as with the pulley in your picture.
Quote: From Tyler. "Like this?"
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Here's my solution a gates 10x675 for alt and a gates 13x955 I think it is. I replaced stock idler with a timing belt tensioner on same adjustable system as the old idler. I used a few jam nuts on the adjusting bolt to hold it in a fixed postion whilst still being able to adjust the idler tension. no real miles on it yet but it is smooth at idle in my garage.
(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b75/bendover817/2012-10-19192150.jpg)
I like it! How are you pushing the roller into the belt? Let us know how this works out in the long run. Changing alternator belt is still a PITA. How long does it take you? The first time took almost a whole day. I can do it in under 1 hour now provided I have the right tools ready, including a remote starter switch.
Crazy to have to spend 1 hour to change a belt requiring so many tools (the right bits and extensions and ratchet/breaker bar, flex head gear wrench)
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I had this belt system on my previous 1.9AAZ build, it came from MKII.
Like you, my alternator belt flopped and loosen and I rarely ever go over 20K miles before replacement.
Then I created a counter pulley.
I took a longer bolt on the back of the ALT BRKT under the INJ pump and threaded the shank to match the OEM bolt, then shaved the threads where it came out of the mount. Then I took a small 2" pulley with bearing that I bought from a lawn mower shop, shaved the outside edges to fit the area without rubbing, put it on thus geting more belt contact with the pulley.
My belts stopped flopping, they lasted. My voltage came up, obviously the OEM setup had slippage, and with more pulley contact my slippage was nill.
I pulled that engine and put in another AAZ with serpentine. Love it. Sweet. Still have that counter pulley in my shop.
Wayne
Do you have a pic of your setup?
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This is what I've done on my 1992 ECOdiesel to delete the AC & power steering and use just one belt for the water pump and alternator. So far I have had absolutely zero belt squeal or slipping
The engine and alternator bracket are from a 1983 MKI Rabbit. The alternator is from the '92 ECOdiesel Jetta. I sleeved the lower bolt hole on the MKII alternator with aircraft grade aluminum so it would mount on the MKI bracket that uses a smaller bolt diameter. I then went to the local alternator shop and found a pulley that has a longer offset so the alternator lines up with the water pump and crankshaft pulleys and fits the wider 12.5/13mm belt. I also put a couple of bearings and a long spacer on a bolt that holds on the lower cover for the timing belt to help tame down belt slap. The belt is a Gates 9485 Green Stripe XL 13A1230
I may add another set of bearings to the bolt for the lower alternator mount to tame down the rest of the belt slap.
Total cost of this modification was $27 plus bits and pieces (nuts, bolts, washers) I had laying around my shop.
Extended pulley $10
13A1230 Belt $12
Two Bearings $5
Here are a couple of videos of it running followed by a few photos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0St3RiqIuIE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQXO-gXpDeU
(http://i769.photobucket.com/albums/xx336/Kragges/th_IMG_2442.jpg) (http://i769.photobucket.com/albums/xx336/Kragges/IMG_2442.mp4)
(http://i769.photobucket.com/albums/xx336/Kragges/th_IMG_2443.jpg) (http://i769.photobucket.com/albums/xx336/Kragges/IMG_2443.mp4)
(http://i769.photobucket.com/albums/xx336/Kragges/IMG_2447.jpg)
(http://i769.photobucket.com/albums/xx336/Kragges/IMG_2436.jpg)
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Ok I grabbed a bunch of belts tonight from my job. I'm trying a 4L 280. My alt belt is doing the same thing. In fact it's so bad I gotta hold a high idle with the lights on. I know the stock belt is 10 mm so I figured on trying a 11 or 7-16. I only put it on tonight, and it sits proud in the ac and idler but nice in the alternator. Time will tell. But so far I didn't have to tension it again after driving home. Like I said time will tell if a fatter incorrect belt will work. (http://i1260.photobucket.com/albums/ii563/hillfolkvwdude/CC9DCB9D-76B9-475A-9FE8-7E98636ADB84-467-000000A1BD0B2C3A.jpg)
Not the greatest pic but its high on the ac and tensioner and almost perfect on the alt
(http://i1260.photobucket.com/albums/ii563/hillfolkvwdude/06C43F0A-CF54-4515-83CF-1CA8575FE151-467-000000A1B98E78C3.jpg)
And while I was tinkering,for good measure :)
I basically backed out the idle screw then adjusted the idle with the fuel. Nice and goody sootyvag
(http://i1260.photobucket.com/albums/ii563/hillfolkvwdude/BF7C6B66-CB4B-4433-A89A-332766A8ABEF-467-000000A1B47588BD.jpg)
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A fatter belt may be better. I know its only been a few days and i retensioned it once but it wasnt loose enough to squeal. Yea time will tell though. It may not be the real fix or its a halfarse repair but hey if it works it works.
I ran this problem past guys i work with cause they deal with motors and belts and pulleys and thats what hey are sort of thinking that a stock 10mm belt isnt wide enough to carry that much load maybe.
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I tried the fatter belt (1/2 inch) and it is not a permanent fix. As it wears the belt gets grooved and quickly go downhill from there.
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I tried the fatter belt (1/2 inch) and it is not a permanent fix. As it wears the belt gets grooved and quickly go downhill from there.
1/2" (13mm) is too wide for a 10mm pulley..
7/16 (11mm) shouldnt be too much of an issue tho..
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So far so good with the wider belt. I only tensioned it again the next day after install and its been a week+ and it hasnt lost tension yet. Im not worried if its correct im just happy that i can pull up to a traffic light and dont have to shut off all th electrical consumers until i get goin again
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So far so good with the wider belt. I only tensioned it again the next day after install and its been a week+ and it hasnt lost tension yet. Im not worried if its correct im just happy that i can pull up to a traffic light and dont have to shut off all th electrical consumers until i get goin again
your runnin the 11mm belt now, right?
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Yea. It sunk a little requiring some adjustment but i figured that was gonna happen.
It definately needs or has needed less adjustment than a normal one.
Yes it bounces and looks crazy when its idling on the wide span. It may sink a little more in one of the pulleys i havent really looked close.
i just been enjoying driving it and not worried about what electrical consumer i can have on.
Lol i even jump started my cousins car and it still didnt gimme a problem yet. I did retension it a little the other night but if it was the old belt i woulda needed a few retensions since then.
I dont get it, what is the real underlying problem? Even when i got it in 03 it didnt eat belts.
I thought i saw someone here did change all the pulleys related like the ac clutch and tensioner/idler,and still doesnt like it.
Oh if your idler pulley is fair you can press a new bearing in for 15$ vs like 80 for a new assy(thats about the price i saw)
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I've been fighting with v-belt problems on these things forever. And by forever I mean since I started driving them in, 1990 or so I guess. Every one.
The least problematic was an 86 8v gasser with AC and no PS, the diesels are more troublesome for whatever reason.
I have observed that belts are often not the stated, or correct, size these days. Most of my stuff does not take a stock size belt any more so I can't remember anything specific, but
I've had the problem with Porsche as well where spec is xxmm width, and they substitute xx.xmm width since it's handy. It works, but isn't ideal.
I've had good luck cleaning the crap out of pulleys, degrease, scotchbrite, clean up on oil changes without removing belts.
I try real hard to not over-tighten belts, it's counter intuitive.
The alternator, the worse shape it's in or the more heavily loaded it is for a given amparage, the more likely it is to squeal it seems.
The AC pump chirps at idle when the AC is on running high pressure with R134, I don't remember any of them doing this with R12
but it's been awhile. I've seen this behavior in other cars as well.
I've never had what I thought was a slipping water pump belt so far, fwiw.
I replace them often, and keep a spare. Belts are cheap, and don't buy cheap as in crappy belts. Contitech belts aren't what they used to be.
I never liked the way the alternator belt flaps at idle, most of em do it.
Pulley alignment and size is important, a lot of that stuff has been swapped around over the years. Manufacturing tolerance in water pumps, and
differing water pump pulleys are a factor as well.
That's all I got, I can manage the problem, but it's still there. I've only ever thrown one belt. I keep an eye on them, every fuel stop.
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Same here, fighting the alt belt (with AC) forever. It's insane the amount of time I spent fighting the alt belt. It's a bad design:
1. poor belt tensioner routing- less belt contact as the tensioner is tightend.
2. too narrow a belt for the load (90 A alt w AC)
3. alt belt is immensely difficult to replace. Took me 8 hours the first time
There are a few people on the forum who have no trouble with the alt belt with AC. Maybe the pulleys on those cars are perfect.
If you have AC and intend to keep it, then I'd suggest replacing the 3 pulleys on the alt belt with new ones from the dealer. Are they available? Probably not cheap.
If you don't need AC, the best solution is deleting the AC compressor and its tensioning bracket, lower the alt into the AC compressor's space, replace the alt's 10 mm pulley with a 13 mm double pulley and run a 13 mm belt off the AC pulley on the crank.
I have such a setup and and so far no problems with the belt loosening up. Changing alt belt now takes a few minutes instead of hours. Swapping the alt takes 15 minutes.
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3. alt belt is immensely difficult to replace. Took me 8 hours the first time
:o
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3. alt belt is immensely difficult to replace. Took me 8 hours the first time
:o
WOW...
i can tear down a WHOLE ENGINE in 8 hours, from running, to a big pile of parts on the work bench..
how did it take you 8 hours? did you fall asleep for 7 hours while under the car?!
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I was trying to make a point what a pita job it is. Maybe it wasn't 8 hours, might jave been 4. It was a long time ago and I dread that job.
How long does it take you on an AC equipped MK2 diesel? Having done it about 7 or 8 times now I think I can do it in an hour. Still way too much time for a fricken belt and a miserable job.
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I was trying to make a point what a pita job it is. Maybe it wasn't 8 hours, might jave been 4. It was a long time ago and I dread that job.
How long does it take you on an AC equipped MK2 diesel? Having done it about 7 or 8 times now I think I can do it in an hour. Still way too much time for a fricken belt and a miserable job.
there are VERY FEW diesels in this part of the world that still have a/c installed..
ive only seen one diesel w/ a/c, and it was a mk1..
why does it take soo long to change belts? you remove the a/c belt, loosen the tensioner for the alt, and pull the alt belt off? if that dont work, remove the top mount bolt, and fold the alt down a bit..
it takes me 15 mins to swap both belts on a mk2 gas..
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IT takes me around 30 to change them in mine. Condenser gets in the way a bit.
Last belts I bought were a set of Gates and they have lasted for 4 years. I went through 3 sets in the year prior to getting the gates belts.
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e14/JASGTi/falllineup012.jpg)
Just hope you never have this happen to your pulley.
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e14/JASGTi/001-13.jpg)
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Gates are the best!!
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That's because you do not have the setup I am talking about, i.e. MK2 with AC
I don't think anyone on earth can change the alt belt in a MK2 with AC in 30 minutes.
IT takes me around 30 to change them in mine. Condenser gets in the way a bit.
Last belts I bought were a set of Gates and they have lasted for 4 years. I went through 3 sets in the year prior to getting the gates belts.
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e14/JASGTi/falllineup012.jpg)
Just hope you never have this happen to your pulley.
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e14/JASGTi/001-13.jpg)
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So you've never changed an alt belt in a MK2 with AC? It is a royal PITA! I'll give you my toolbox if you can change a MK2 with AC alt belt in 15 minutes. ;)
I was trying to make a point what a pita job it is. Maybe it wasn't 8 hours, might jave been 4. It was a long time ago and I dread that job.
How long does it take you on an AC equipped MK2 diesel? Having done it about 7 or 8 times now I think I can do it in an hour. Still way too much time for a fricken belt and a miserable job.
there are VERY FEW diesels in this part of the world that still have a/c installed..
ive only seen one diesel w/ a/c, and it was a mk1..
why does it take soo long to change belts? you remove the a/c belt, loosen the tensioner for the alt, and pull the alt belt off? if that dont work, remove the top mount bolt, and fold the alt down a bit..
it takes me 15 mins to swap both belts on a mk2 gas..
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That's because you do not have the setup I am talking about, i.e. MK2 with AC
I don't think anyone on earth can change the alt belt in a MK2 with AC in 30 minutes.
IT takes me around 30 to change them in mine. Condenser gets in the way a bit.
Last belts I bought were a set of Gates and they have lasted for 4 years. I went through 3 sets in the year prior to getting the gates belts.
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e14/JASGTi/falllineup012.jpg)
Just hope you never have this happen to your pulley.
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e14/JASGTi/001-13.jpg)
I can definitely do it in 30-40 minutes. Let's have a contest via YouTube haha
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I was trying to make a point what a pita job it is. Maybe it wasn't 8 hours, might jave been 4. It was a long time ago and I dread that job.
How long does it take you on an AC equipped MK2 diesel? Having done it about 7 or 8 times now I think I can do it in an hour. Still way too much time for a fricken belt and a miserable job.
Do you have power steering still too?
It is definitely a chore on a MK2 with AC and PS, especially if it's a new ordeal for you to figure out and tackle.
I don't see a few hours being out of the question at all for the job on a lazy weekend if it's new to you.
It was a bad spot in the engineering timeline for the MK2 with AC and PS unfortunately.
Serp setup wasn't till MK3 so they had to figure out how to run all those accessories with V-belts still.
The darnedest thing too is that those silly Germans made the most infamously troublesome belt of all, the inner most one of the three!
So everytime you have to change it, you have to mess with a whole myriad of brackets and bolts for the PS and AC to even put the new belt on.
Basically three times the work to change one belt...
I know I hated messing with the setup on my ECO, hence some of my reasoning to delete both AC and PS.
AC didn't work and I never notice the PS gone unless I am turning the wheel without moving.
As soon as you are barely even moving, it feels no different than with PS.
The one belt literally takes a minute or two to change and tension and they cost 4 dollars a piece at O'Reilly's.
Needless to say, I have no regrets on the decision. :)
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Forgot to mention it but yes I have power steering. I kinda assumed a MK2 with AC automatically has power steering.
I deleted the AC but kept the power steering. I can change the alt belt now in less than 15 minutes.
I was trying to make a point what a pita job it is. Maybe it wasn't 8 hours, might jave been 4. It was a long time ago and I dread that job.
How long does it take you on an AC equipped MK2 diesel? Having done it about 7 or 8 times now I think I can do it in an hour. Still way too much time for a fricken belt and a miserable job.
Do you have power steering still too?
It is definitely a chore on a MK2 with AC and PS, especially if it's a new ordeal for you to figure out and tackle.
I don't see a few hours being out of the question at all for the job on a lazy weekend if it's new to you.
It was a bad spot in the engineering timeline for the MK2 with AC and PS unfortunately.
Serp setup wasn't till MK3 so you they had to figure out how to run all those accessories with V-belts still.
The darnedest thing too is that those silly Germans made the most infamously troublesome belt of all, the inner most one of the three!
So everytime you have to change it, you have to mess with a whole myriad of brackets and bolts for the PS and AC to even put the new belt on.
Basically three times the work to change one belt...
I know I hated messing with the setup on my ECO, hence some of my reasoning to delete both AC and PS.
AC didn't work and I never notice the PS gone unless I am turning the wheel without moving.
As soon as you are barely even moving, it feels no different than with PS.
The one belt literally takes a minute or two to change and tension and they cost 4 dollars a piece at O'Reilly's.
Needless to say, I have no regrets on the decision. :)
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ah yea no power steering here.
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I can definitely do it in 30-40 minutes. Let's have a contest via YouTube haha
We are both in Louisville it could be a driveway showdown :D
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I only ever drove a rabbit with PS finally a few years ago, it was a lot nicer driving car around town but I wouldn't put up with all those hoses (and leaks) and belt BS for it.
I want to say it even used the damn shims like a Beetle or a Porsche for adjusting belt tension, some water cooled VW I ran across had that.
The AC comp bracket/tensioning is the biggest annoyance to me on the A1 AC/non-PS setup. I found in my pile of parts a threaded rod that attached to one of the bolts
and allowed tightening the belt with it instead of a jack and a 2x4 under the front of the car. It might even be from an A2, haven't had one in so long I can't remember, seems like the alt
was low mounted on the 85 TD Jetta. It's just a goofy setup, all of em. If I didn't like my AC I'd have it gone and a tensioner added as some folks have. Or a serpentine belt.
I've never really had any trouble with the AC/water pump belt I have to say, just the alt.
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It is definitely a chore on a MK2 with AC and PS, especially if it's a new ordeal for you to figure out and tackle.... I don't see a few hours being out of the question at all for the job on a lazy weekend if it's new to you.
Ja, it can be a bit of a brain teaser for a nooB:
- The airbox can be an interference on the TD models
- The hidden bolt on the PS pump bracket
- The nearly hidden capscrew behind the belts on the compressor
- The frequent need to lower the compressor to get its belt off, then raise the compressor to get the alternator belt between the crank pulley and the compressor pulley, then lower the compressor again to get its belt back on, then raise the compressor again to get the alt belt up to the alt...
Then VW threw the curveball when they added the expensive freewheeling double shiv waterpump pulley that required the PS belt to be installed to drive the waterpump while the freewheeling shiv drove the AC and Alt. ::)
It can be done in ~30min, if you know & have all the tools needed, the order of operations and all the bolts are not stuck; but it is quite a drag to do it in the rain ( when the belt is more likely to fly off).
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It is definitely a chore on a MK2 with AC and PS, especially if it's a new ordeal for you to figure out and tackle.... I don't see a few hours being out of the question at all for the job on a lazy weekend if it's new to you.
Ja, it can be a bit of a brain teaser for a nooB:
- The airbox can be an interference on the TD models
- The hidden bolt on the PS pump bracket
- The nearly hidden capscrew behind the belts on the compressor
- The frequent need to lower the compressor to get its belt off, then raise the compressor to get the alternator belt between the crank pulley and the compressor pulley, then lower the compressor again to get its belt back on, then raise the compressor again to get the alt belt up to the alt...
Then VW threw the curveball when they added the expensive freewheeling double shiv waterpump pulley that required the PS belt to be installed to drive the waterpump while the freewheeling shiv drove the AC and Alt. ::)
It can be done in ~30min, if you know & have all the tools needed, the order of operations and all the bolts are not stuck; but it is quite a drag to do it in the rain ( when the belt is more likely to fly off).
I just finished doing the very last step in the AC-ectomy on Jezebel. She never had AC from the factory, but someone had swapped in an AC 1.6TD before I bought her. That dang double shiv waterpump pulley is sitting on my work table right now, FINALLY off the car. Had my first drive today without it rattling away - oh man, the little things in life that can drive you crazy eh?
The fact that the double shiv pulley overlaps the PS pump pulley so that you can't actually remove the belt without either undoing one of the pulleys or dropping the PS pump bracket is really the bear of it all. Nothing like trying to undo frozen in place hex bolts on something that wants to spin.
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I can definitely do it in 30-40 minutes. Let's have a contest via YouTube haha
We are both in Louisville it could be a driveway showdown :D
what part of town you n?
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Or...you could do the serp swap and change the belt in 2 minutes lol
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Or...you could do the serp swap and change the belt in 2 minutes lol
I hear that's problematic since there is a bolt missing on the 1.6 block.
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Too bad the OP never reported back on whether this problem was solved or not. But reading it again, I suspect the rust on the alt pulley has something to do with it. If the belt flap as much as he says and eventually fly off, then there might have been alignment issues on the 3 pulleys.
I have a 91 Jetta Diesel with a TD transplanted into it.
I'm having an absolute hell of a time getting the AC and Alternator belts working right.
I've tried Goodyear, NAPA, OEM, and now even the $15 Gatorback belts. They all do the same thing - I tighten them down to spec, then they flap around when the car runs (even when tight! very strange!), then they just stretch out until they're about to flap off. So then I have to adjust the tension on both, and after about 2-3 adjustments there's no adjustment room left on the alternator pulley. At this point the belt just keeps getting looser and looser until it squeals and then eventually just flys off.
This all takes place over the course of maybe 20-25 miles. So it's extremely fast. My AC spins very freely. My alternator pulley is very stable and is in good shape as far as I can tell. My alternator pulley has a little surface rust but I don't think that's the issue. Once again, they have a tendancy to flap around like mad. My PS/WP belt does not exhibit this same behavior.
Does anyone have any idea why this could be happening? I can't even drive the car more than 30 minutes without having the belts squeal and risk flying off. Am I alone in this plight?
Thanks,
Ray
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I can definitely do it in 30-40 minutes. Let's have a contest via YouTube haha
We are both in Louisville it could be a driveway showdown :D
what part of town you n?
Fern Creek
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Or...you could do the serp swap and change the belt in 2 minutes lol
I hear that's problematic since there is a bolt missing on the 1.6 block.
any block older than an ABA doesnt have all the provisions for the alternator bracket..
you can work around it, its only one bolt, there are 3 others right there around it..
i made a bracket that bolts to my block, and makes up the extra bolt hole..
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did some tinkering with my belts today. I have the absolute shortest possible belts to use for both the ac and alternator, I have manual steering. For the ac belt I'm using a gates xl green stripe part number is 9370 dimensions are 12mm width x 949mm outer circumference and for the alternator belt I'm using a gates xl part number 7265 dimensions 9.5mm/10mm x 690mm out circumference. in addition to the doing the belts I also cleaned and lubed the tensioner pulley bearing by pulling the shield off giving it a good bath and filling it with VW cv axle lube (this is key to keeping the noise down and this thing to not freeze up and kill your belt) and used a thin fender washer to correctly align the pulley. I was running this same ac belt for awhile and It has no wear and hasn't stretched past it's initiAl retension several thousand miles ago. I was running a conti belt after I took the failure of my previous solution i posted that ended with belt failure after 1000 miles. The conti belt probably had at least 5-8k (hard to believe)on it but it was still useable surprisingly I've never had a conti v belt shred on me cuz I always keep a close eye on it. I knew it needed replacing before to long so I went to my friendly oreillys and had them give me one size lower than the computer advised. this is where it gets a bit tricky maybe to tricky for some. In order to get both belts on you have to have to pull the airbox(turbo diesel only) and the harmonic balancer pulley. I spent about 1.5-2 hours screwing with it but it paid off. ac belt has >4-5mm of deflection not running and 0 running the alt belt has >4-5mm not running and immeasurable but slight and significantly less deflection while running than any other belt I've ever used previously with equal non running deflection. These gates belt are very well made and come with 3 year warranty.
(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b75/bendover817/bfe921be99f7ccb8e7931183537b7e76_zps4f65f589.jpg)