VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.
Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: malone on April 19, 2005, 09:10:13 pm
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Two days after picking up my 1991 Jetta 1.6TD I did a few G-Tech runs (stock). The dyno lines appear a little bumpy because I was driving on a rural road, but all runs were consistent.
Full pull from 1,600 RPM to redline:
(http://www.dieselinside.com/misc/malone_stock.jpg)
Raced from a stop (3rd gear 2,900RPM>redline is plotted):
(http://www.dieselinside.com/misc/malone_stock2.jpg)
Well, that's it for now.. these are the baseline runs. I'll post updated G-Tech runs after some mods in a few weeks :)
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Did you weigh your car, or just estimate?
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Did you weigh your car, or just estimate?
I weighed the car at a truck scale between 172nd and 160st exit Westbound on Highway 1, the day before the G-Tech runs :)
The car weighed 1110kg (2442lb) without me in it. Add 158lb (me) and the total is 2600lb. I probably should have subtracted a few/several pounds because of the fuel consumed in a day before the G-Tech use, but I think it's close enough. :)
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Nice - great info, and always good to have more data, especially a totally bone-stock baseline. Thanks for sharing!
PS - I have not seen a '91 Jetta 1.6lTD before, I think it was not sold in the US market but must have been a canadian only thing. (It's not an "ecodiesel" is it?) Engine code is "MF" right?
Does it have the same turbo that the earlier 1.6lTDs had? (It looks like it does based on the dyno plot, but I'm just checking to make sure.)
Gotta love those RPM-sensing G-techs. That is great that you are experiencing good repeatability.
Oh and by the way, which gear did you use for your HP & TQ vs RPM testing?
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Thanks :) It is a real TD, not eco. I haven't checked the engine code but it came from a 1986. There are other 1991-1992 or older Jettas that come with 1.6TDs stock though. Yes, I think it may be a Canada-only thing.
The turbo is a Garrett, I'll have to look into the specs.
For the first long 1,600RPM to redline pull I used 2nd gear. The two pulls shown in the second dyno plot is from 3rd gear (automatically selected by G-Tech). I'm going to do a few more 3rd gear baseline runs on a highway and also see if I can pull a better 60ft (on 185 all-season tires). I wonder if I can get into 18sec 1/4mi before proceeding with modding.
Here's an enormous picture of the Jetta: Clicky clicky (http://members.shaw.ca/aug/jetta/HPIM0417.JPG).
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Hey, she's pretty - holy-rollers and everything! :)
Is the suspension stock, or just old? :P
Those are decent numbers too for a bone stock car, how many miles/km's on her?
Brendan
84 Scirocco 8v
00 Camaro L36 M49
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Hey, she's pretty - holy-rollers and everything! :)
Is the suspension stock, or just old? :P
Those are decent numbers too for a bone stock car, how many miles/km's on her?
Brendan
84 Scirocco 8v
00 Camaro L36 M49
Thanks and yes, the suspension is still stock :) it's fine but feels very wobbly compared to my previous car; a 1997 Golf with stiff coilovers. I'll upgrade the suspension for the Jetta eventually.
223k km on the chassis, approximately 170k km on the motor.
Cheers,
Mark
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Sweeet . :wink:
Looks alot like my 92 TD Jetta (Silver though). Very curious how your machine will look/perform after each mod, as I have big plans for mine now that I've decided to spend the money on her instead of on a new TDI. I figured no matter what I spend on mods and wheels and suspension and stuff, it will be significantly less than a new(er) TDI, so she's gettin pimped out, not too much though. Where did you take that pic BTW? I can't figure out if it's true West Coast, or just really windy that day.
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Very curious how your machine will look/perform after each mod, as I have big plans for mine now that I've decided to spend the money on her instead of on a new TDI.
I have a TDI (currently in building stage), and I chip-tune TDIs but I'm enjoying my TD very much. :)
I'm not going to concentrate on styling much because that gets dull over time. I'll be happy with just performance mods.
Where did you take that pic BTW? I can't figure out if it's true West Coast, or just really windy that day.
The previous owner took the picture during his trip to Oregon this year.
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My car is waaaaay faster now :D. On Sunday and Monday I drove an hour to Brett's (DVST8R) shop and the following was done to the formerly stock 1.6TD:
1) Boost pin washer/spacer mod.
2) Electronic boost control. It's currently set at 24 PSI with barely any boost spikes. We ran it at 25 for a while.
3) Fuel injection quantity maxxed out.
4) Fuel governor mod.
5) 2.5" no-cat custom mandrel-bent downpipe to 3" exhaust (starts at bottom of downpipe).
6) EGT probe drilled in pre-turbo.
... and a few more. Big props to Brett for the help. I've had the TD for only a little over a week so I learned a lot during the process.
On Sunday I had leak in the back of the fuel pump where the cold start lever attaches to. We fixed that Monday. Rebuilding the fuel pump is a little easier than it looks.
So far the power is great, a big improvement. A friend of mine commented that it accelerates a bit harder than his MK3 VR6, but different torque curves can play tricks on the mind. Regardless, I plan to get the following done soon:
1) 1.9L TD 3-hole metal headgasket.
2) Raceware or ARP head studs.
3) GTD injector nozzles (should be here Tuesday or Wednesday).
4) Advance fuel pump to 1.05mm.
5) (pending) a clutch.
6) A little weight reduction.
7) INTERCOOLER.
I want an intercooler real bad. Currently, I can reach 1,600 degrees Fahrenheit by the middle of 3rd gear WOT after launching from a stop. Advancing the fuel pump and new nozzles may help improve the power/smoke ratio a bit.
Yes, my TD's smoky. DVST8R lives in a rural area so smoke doesn't matter much there... but I commute (45 min) to Vancouver that has very heavy traffic. One of my co-workers was unfortunate enough to be behind me on the way to work (we just bumped into each other). At 10% throttle while accelerating as gently as possible, my co-worker "couldn't see anything" (past my smoke) as he put it. I couldn't help but giggle.I probably raised Vancouver's smog level by 50% this morning :D
After work today I'm going to reduce the fueling a bit and keep it there until the next mods are done.
That's a quick summary for now. I have lots of pictures of the project. I'll try to post them later tonight.
I gotta get back to work now as I have lots of catching up to do.
Later,
Mark
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I really like how 'clean' the stock car looks. I met Brett on Sat and experienced the same level of vision your co-worker did following him on a cruise. I'd like to see the gtech run now so you know hp/tq/time differences.
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We tried to do some g-tech runs on both our cars, but the g-tech was acting up so we didn't get any real numbers. Mark has another g-tech so he will try it with that.
Like Mark says I live in a rural area with tractors, rigs, and dodges and nobody cares about smoke so I have mine kinda smoky :wink: .
Mark took lots of pics. Those pics should answer once and for all "Where do I put my EGT probe?"
We also started work on dave's caddy, he did a bit of a cusom cut fuel pin, but we ran out of die grinder bits (cheap bits) He is coming over Wednesday evening and we are going to do his Downpipe, and then in two weeks when I return from Edmonton we are going to do the Gov, mod and all the rest of the tunning. He has enough space for a monster intercooler! Stay tuned for some seriously quick Chilliwack tuned TD's. :twisted:
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I really like how 'clean' the stock car looks. I met Brett on Sat and experienced the same level of vision your co-worker did following him on a cruise. I'd like to see the gtech run now so you know hp/tq/time differences.
Hey, I don't recognize your username. What car did you drive during the cruise last Saturday?
edit: I did a search and found a picture of your red MK3 Jetta :)
Brett and I tried doing G-Tech runs in my car but it did not work right even with a smooth launch and a dead flat road.. it randomly reported 0 to 60 HP and shows a big dip in the HP/Torque curve between 2,500RPM and 4,000 RPM or something like that. The G-Tech however read my RPM just fine and smoothly from 1,000 RPM to redline.
I switched to Road Racer mode in G-Tech and watched the bar graph that moves depending on acceleration or braking. The bar moved smoothly as I started accelerating and then it started jerking back and forth. Not sure why it's doing that. My exhaust system isn't fully hung in place yet so maybe the vibration is confusing the G-Tech.
We also tried G-Teching Brett's car and it kept on saying "The G-Tech stopped because the vehicle moved during staging", even with a proper launch. Brett's car has a very grabby clutch that when engaged makes the car jerk upwards, possibly confusing the G-Tech.
I'll try doing a few more G-Tech runs tonight and see if I can get it to work.
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How did you run a 2.5" exhaust, did you cut off the stock toilet bowl and weld it on the 2.5" exhaust, or did you make a new downpipe as well?
Thanks,
Ray
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Yeah we made a new downpipe, which is all 2.5 mandrel bent, than to 3 inch no cat no muffler mandrel exhaust. I was there sunday to help mark and brett out I learnt a lot about the injection pumps, pertty sure brett and I took apart marks like 10 times. Tomorrow brett and I are gonna make a downpipe, and maybe the rest of my exhaust. Brett I'll bring my 3 inch bends, and pipe, and if you don;t have time I wanna cut them and than I can weld them up at home, but if you wanna help that great. In the next month there are definately gonna be some way fast TD's in chilliwack. Mark, I wanna buy a g tech, what can you tell me about them? cost? reliability ect? the tach seemed pretty acurate so I am thinking maybe I could use one as a tach for the time being? You can email me the info or pm thanks.
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How did you run a 2.5" exhaust, did you cut off the stock toilet bowl and weld it on the 2.5" exhaust, or did you make a new downpipe as well?
Thanks,
Ray
As soon as Mark decideds to post up the pics you will see how we did it. :P
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Hey I just got home an hour ago. I was barely home since Saturday and I don't have FTP access from work to upload pics. Anyway, I managed to download pics from the camera, resize them, and host them. Here we go.. from start to end:
On a scale:
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/scale1.jpg)
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/scale2.jpg)
DVST8R's shop in beautiful Chilliwack, BC:
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/shop.jpg)
Getting lifted:
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/lift1.jpg)
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/lift2.jpg)
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/lift3.jpg)
Some people may cringe at the sight, but the lift was very stable.
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/dog2.jpg)
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/dog1.jpg)
Some parts for the exhaust:
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/pipes1.jpg)
3" straight pipe in the background:
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/pipes2.jpg)
Doing some lining up:
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/comparo1.jpg)
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/comparo2.jpg)
Pipe cutting:
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/cutting.jpg)
Downpipe being welded:
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/welding2.jpg)
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/welding1.jpg)
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/weld.jpg)
Dave giving a hand:
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/dave.jpg)
We drilled a hole in the exhaust manifold to tap+screw in a probe for the pyrometer/EGT gauge:
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/egt1.jpg)
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/egt2.jpg)
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/egt3.jpg)
Exhaust manifold for my TDI. Brett drilled and tapped it for a EGT probe.
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/tdi1.jpg)
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/tdi2.jpg)
This is one of my spare pumps that we disassembled on Monday to help us diagnose the leaking problem:
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/pump1.jpg)
Underside shot of the new downpipe installed:
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/downpipe2.jpg)
Exhaust system installed:
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/exhaust2.jpg)
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/exhaust1.jpg)
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/tip1.jpg)
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/tip2.jpg)
Some pictures of the boost stuff: Dave's #51 boost pin (left) versus my #72 boost pin (right):
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/boostpins1.jpg)
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/boostpins2.jpg)
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/boostpins3.jpg)
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/boostpins4.jpg)
My starwheel spring (left) versus Dave's spring (right):
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/starwheelspring1.jpg)
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/starwheelspring2.jpg)
Went to a yard to find a boost solenoid:
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/partsearch1.jpg)
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/partsearch2.jpg)
My 1.6TD boost hoses, the solenoid is visible on the very left of the picture:
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/boosthoses.jpg)
Ghettofabulous gauge install 8)
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/dash1.jpg)
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/dash3.jpg)
On the left of the boost gauge is a pressure switch. I can actually adjust max. boost from the inside of the car. Who needs a fancy looking $269 USD electronic boost controller? :P
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/dash2.jpg)
Currently waiting for the radio delete panel, which will be used to house the gauges.
Last saturday's cruise (my TD was stock at the time):
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/cruise.jpg)
edit: fixed pictures.
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Yeah we made a new downpipe, which is all 2.5 mandrel bent, than to 3 inch no cat no muffler mandrel exhaust. I was there sunday to help mark and brett out I learnt a lot about the injection pumps, pertty sure brett and I took apart marks like 10 times. Tomorrow brett and I are gonna make a downpipe, and maybe the rest of my exhaust. In the next month there are definately gonna be some way fast TD's in chilliwack. Mark, I wanna buy a g tech, what can you tell me about them? cost? reliability ect? the tach seemed pretty acurate so I am thinking maybe I could use one as a tach for the time being? You can email me the info or pm thanks.
Hey Dave, thanks a lot for helping out :) I can come by in a couple weeks when your TD's getting tuned.
http://www.gtechpro.com - I have the RR model. The website will show you the difference between the SS and RR. I used to have the standard sub-$50.USD G-Tech Pro that was released in 1994 or so - it does not display torque (just horsepower). You also cannot download data from it to your computer and display a dyno graph. The RPM cannot be manually calibrated either. This is why I prefer the newer model.
G-Tech Pro Competition may be okay (similar to SS/RR).
I got my RR brand new from ebay several months ago for about $20 USD less than MSRP.
Cheers,
Mark
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I love the big drill press in the background, seriously. The shape of the main column casting is fantastic, it looks like a tree. They don't build stuff that looks like that anymore. You should paint that thing up and put flames on it. :D
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Wow - downpipe welding, pump disassembling, EGT probe installing... when you guys get together, you have a heyday... looks like fun! Thanks for sharing the pics.
Regarding RPM sensing troubles using the G-tech - try turning on the lights and/or air blower. Then recalibrate the RPMs with those electrical accessories on and take your runs with them on also. I found the G-tech gets a better RPM signal on some cars when there are some electrical accessories turned on.
The only difference between the Competition and the RR is the color of the plastic and in some cases the backlighting, and they don't sell the Competition anymore. My G-tech is a black competition model with blue backlighting, that originally came with firmware 1.0.0 (now upgraded to the latest RR firmware)
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I thought the old school drill press was neat too :)
Jake, we already did that for the RPM sensor. Hazard, headlights, fan (full power), and rear defrost were all on. The RPM sensor doesn't seem to be the problem. The G-Tech read the RPM perfectly fine and smoothly from idle at 1,000RPM all the way to redline. It must be something else, perhaps the accelerometers.
I even got 21-22 second 1/4 mile time reported by G-Tech, which was odd.
When my TD was stock (best time 18.8 in 1/4 mile, averaged 19.3) it can barely keep up with my 1997 1.8L 8v Golf (~78whp, ~2800lb with driver, does mid 18's), but on Monday evening after the mods my TD ripped past the Golf driven by the same driver (a friend of mine). Very noticable increase in power/speed. So far 4 people have ridden in my car and they easily noticed, too.
When I get home tonight I'll post G-Tech dyno plots to show the big dip in the mid-RPM range.
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I love the big drill press in the background, seriously. The shape of the main column casting is fantastic, it looks like a tree. They don't build stuff that looks like that anymore. You should paint that thing up and put flames on it. :D
If you look closely you can see the 4 speed gearbox out of an old ford truck, that controls head speed. We love that press too, Earl who owns the company could have put any drill press he wanted in there, but chose this one as it is one of the most acurate, least vibrating, no wandering, drill press's we have ever used. It was cast in the '30's as I recall the head and chuck are nearly new and other pieces have been upgraded as need be.
As for flames earl is dead set against anything with flames on it, he thinks painted flames always look like "crab claws"
Dave is coming over tonight so that we can do the downpipe and exhaust, on his caddy with a TD motor. Then he is coming back when I return from Edmonton, and when he has his gauges to do the rest of the mods. Unfortunately I don't have a camera, so unless Dave does or Mark wants to make the drive again there won't be any pics.
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Dave is coming over tonight so that we can do the downpipe and exhaust, on his caddy with a TD motor. Then he is coming back when I return from Edmonton, and when he has his gauges to do the rest of the mods. Unfortunately I don't have a camera, so unless Dave does or Mark wants to make the drive again there won't be any pics.
Can't come tonight as I've plans but I'll come over for sure after you're back from Edmonton.
If anyone on this board requests more detailed pictures of anything, let me know and I'll do some close-ups. I'll take a better picture or two of the drill press for you, QuickTD ;)
Brett, if you go to Pick e Parts before I come over can you grab a couple more solenoids for me? Or I'll go there next time I'm in Chilliwack. I have some ideas on putting together something to control smoke via a dashboard mounted switch. Good for switching between clean city commute mode and smoky race mode (or get-off-my-back mode :)).
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I did go that Wednesday night and took a few more pictures:
Drill press pic for you, QuickTD
(http://dieselinside.com/1.6td/drillpress1.jpg)
"Superior"
(http://dieselinside.com/1.6td/drillpress3.jpg)
You can see the shifter on top of the Ford 4 gear box:
(http://dieselinside.com/1.6td/drillpress2.jpg)
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Dave's Caddy. He climbed up there only once to quickly retrieve a part... I had to take a picture anyway :D
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/caddy_lift.jpg)
Smokestack exhaust? :cool:
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/caddy_smokestack.jpg)
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Just noticed... you guys drilling and tapping for a pre-turbine thermocouple without removing the turbo!? :shock: While this may have saved you some time, could those chips and shavings which were left over in the exhaust manifold and turbine housing been the cause of DVST8R's turbo failure... (mentioned here: http://www.vwdiesel.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=1400)
We drilled a hole in the exhaust manifold to tap+screw in a probe for the pyrometer/EGT gauge:
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/egt1.jpg)
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/egt2.jpg)
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/egt3.jpg)
Also, is that a downpipe without any sort of flex joint? :?
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Yes, we drilled and tapped the exhaust manifold with the turbo still on, and yes I'm aware that shavings can damage the turbo. I don't recall the technical name but we used a sticky goo on the drill bit and tap bit and it helped keep the shavings on the bits.
DVST8R ran at least 22 PSI for a year and even did 35 PSI at some point. I don't know how long he had the EGT probe installed for (he did have an Autometer gauge until it was stolen, then now ISSPRO). I don't think the major cause of his turbo failure is the shavings.
Regardless, I'm not concerned about the longevity of my stock turbo because I will have a new one in a short time. So yes, drilling the manifold that way saved us time. No need for that :shock:
The downpipe is currently a little too long; it contacts the steering bar as pictured. We will cut the downpipe an inch shorter and possibly add a flex pipe near the end of the downpipe (like most factory VWs). We also still need to install the exhaust hangers. It's part of custom tuning. Once Dave's (MK1) and my downpipes are perfected DVST8R can create copies for any MK1/MK2 1.6TD owner who may want one.
Funny, the flex pipe has been replaced for the third time last Saturday (within a 3 month period) for my 1997 Golf with a stock 90bhp 1.8L 8v. I have never hit the flex pipe, the motor mounts are fine, the exhaust system is factory, and the flex pipe was professionally installed. The flex pipe simply started tearing apart despite the soft engine and shifts. Very frustrating to have it happening more than once in a short time, and it wasn't an el-cheapo flex pipe.
If my 1.6TD exhaust breaks with or without a flex pipe, that's nothing some welding and $20 worth of material can fix. The flex pipe still costs a lot more than a regular pipe :?
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That sticky goo we used was called grease :P When we did marks every few seconds we cleaned it off and put new grease on, and I would say most of the shavings stuck to it. Its actually pretty safe, after We got throught the manifold I put my little finger through there with soem grease on it to try and find some more shavings to justto make sure. My downpipe will actually be commign out soon because Ithink we are gonna put a VNT 17 turbo in there, so we'll see what happens. Mark hit me up an email about those turbos we need to make them work on our 1.6's :twisted: No those shavings didn;t kill bretts turbo either. he had that egt in a long time ago. he figures it was an oil line. I've taken a few apart before and when brett gets back I'll check out his turbo and verify what happened to it.
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So, did you guys ever work out some G-tech numbers to compare with Malone's baseline runs? Waiting patiently to see what the new horsepower and torque figures are after all mods you boys did on the "Terra Cotta Jetta". What about some numbers for DVST8R's ride too? Nice work, BTW. Did you do all those mods in one day?
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So, did you guys ever work out some G-tech numbers to compare with Malone's baseline runs? Waiting patiently to see what the new horsepower and torque figures are after all mods you boys did on the "Terra Cotta Jetta". What about some numbers for DVST8R's ride too? Nice work, BTW. Did you do all those mods in one day?
I'm currently having problems with the injection pump; it makes very good power when cold (idles at around 1,200RPM), but the power drops while hot (idle 700RPM). It's still driveable with great fuel economy, but annoying. There are no noticeable pump leaks.
will have to take the pump apart again and diagnose the problem, and possibly replace the governor mod with standard springs for now. However, the idea of a 1.9L camplate and more timing advance during high RPM is still appealing, so I figure why not send my spare 1.6TD pump to Superior Fuel Injection now instead of later. I called Giles@Superior this morning and will be sending my spare pump this week.
DVST8R's gone on a trip, he will be back next week or the week after. Perhaps we'll try G-Tech again then. It may be difficult - note my earlier post about our attempt to G-Tech DVST8R's ride.
As for my car, we did most of the mods in one day. The exhaust stopped at the rear crossbrace (before the rear axle). We finished more of the exhaust and fixed a pump leak on the next day.
The downpipe still needs to be modded a bit (1" shorter on the straight vertical pipe) for a better fit, and a 3" flex pipe will be added after the downpipe.
I also received GTD injectors from Smog, pop-tested to 160bar (above 150bar stock). I decided not to install them until the pump's fixed.
Cheers,
Mark
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Dave, I have good news about the PD150 VNT-17 turbo. Last night I saw you on MSN, but you went offline before I could hit "send", doh!
I'm at work and I don't have your email address (it's not in your user profile either). I'll send an email when I get home tonight.
There are a few VNT-17s that appear to have less than 1,000km on them. Two of them are rust-free on the exhaust manifold!!
Cheers,
Mark
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Quick updates:
1) Several days ago I played with the idle screws and it idles nicely now. The rev no longer drops below 910RPM.
2) Starting yesterday (and suddenly), cold starting became more difficult with at least 15 (!!) cranks required to start. Starts fine if the engine's warm. I will check the glow plugs tonight.
3) Giles recently finished rebuilding my 1.6TD pump. Payment is getting sorted and I'm expecting to receive the pump sometime next week. I can't wait :)
4) Depending on how well the car performs off-boost (& light smoke) with the new pump + injectors, we may proceed to replace my stock Garrett turbo with a brand new GT20 turbo (0.53 A/R) I already have sitting around.
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I'm pleased to receive my pump from Giles@Superior Fuel Injection today. It looks brand spankin' new :D
(http://dieselinside.com/1.6td/newpump2.jpg)
However I have some not-so-good news:
I intended to sell my MK3 1997 Golf CL (1.8L 8v) after I bought the Jetta 1.6TD. The Golf has been very reliable in the 4.5 years I've owned it, until a few days ago, just as I was ready to start selling it. It suddenly developed a fuel leak in the fuel injector/throttle plate section. I'm currently getting 375km (225miles?) @ approximately 48L. Normally it should be 550 to 600km. Power is also greatly reduced with a shudder.
The fuel leak didn't seem like a big deal to fix, until I found the price to replace the defective part, which was much more expensive than I thoughtt!! The small parts inside cannot be ordered or replaced individually. The progress for the Jetta 1.6TD is stalled for now until the Golf's fixed.
I just realized that swapping in another engine for the Golf will be better than fixing the fuel leak and keeping the 1.8L 8v. How about a 2.0L 8v ABA? Nope. A 2.0L 9a 16v? Nah. A 1.6TD? Sounds right :D
A 1.9TD might be nice but it's not necessary and I'd rather save some money. The 1.9 also doesn't seem to be a big revver.
So Jose @ JS Performance will help swap a TD into the Golf. We're hoping to complete it within a week.
Pros for switching to my 2 door MK3 Golf:
* There are no 2 door MK3 Golf diesels sold in North America, yet I've always wanted one. So it would be unique.
* More refined. I already have another MK2 Jetta with a TDI swap. It's stripped to the bone and will have plexiglass windows. I don't feel like having two MK2 Jettas :)
* I will likely pick up a 1986+ 1.6TD with a hydraulic head. This means no routine valve adjustments and the ability to fit a 1.9TD head.
* I've had the Golf for 4.5 years. I'm still attached to the car.
* More engine bay room.
Cons for switching to my 2 door MK3 Golf:
* 200-300lbs heavier. That fact bothers me a little bit because it will affect how quickly the car moves. However, a little weight reduction can fix that.
* Re-do the exhaust system :? However, some custom exhaust pieces from the Jetta may be re-used for the Golf, especially the straight pipes.
* The Golf's dashboard does not have the cold-start pull. However, I have two spare MK2 diesel dashboards sitting in my garage. I can remove one of cold-start pulls and drill it into the Golf's dashboard.
I will sell the Terra Cotta red Jetta 1.6TD after the basic Golf swap is complete & functional.
This is getting pretty tense!
The Giles-modified pump & Smog's 160bar GTD injectors will go into the Golf. I will post comments once it runs.
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Hey mark, why not buy my 1.6 hydro thats in my caddy? Than we can put a tdi with a 6speed in there :twisted:
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Hey mark, why not buy my 1.6 hydro thats in my caddy? Than we can put a tdi with a 6speed in there :twisted:
Now that's what I'm talking about! :twisted:
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Hey mark, why not buy my 1.6 hydro thats in my caddy? Than we can put a tdi with a 6speed in there :twisted:
You're my saviour dude! I was getting a little worried. I replied to your PM. :)
Hey Brett, I'm not sure if you got my MSN this morning but Dave and I are gonna pull the 8v tranny this evening for you. :)
Any suggestions on packaging for shipping the tranny? I'll ship later tonight if Greyhound is still open, or tomorrow morning.
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malone,
have you installed the pump Giles rebuilt for you yet?
I sent him one to rebuild also.. and I can't wait to get it back!
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malone,
have you installed the pump Giles rebuilt for you yet?
I sent him one to rebuild also.. and I can't wait to get it back!
I wish! My MK3 Golf will be receiving a 1.6TD swap and the Giles pump will go into that car. The swap isn't completed. I will post results once the 1.6TD + pump are running.
So far I'm really happy with the way the pump looks and Giles's service was flawless.
DVST8R's (Brett's) replacement transmission was pulled Friday evening. Major thanks to 935racer (Dave) and his buddy for the help. It took a good three hours due to a couple stripped bolts on both driveshafts.
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/tranny4.jpg)
The packaging was done on the next day. My Golf's pictured as well.
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/tranny.jpg)
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/tranny2.jpg)
Packed up and ready for shipment to Edmonton, AB. I will choose Greyhound's 1 day shipping (bus) if the price's reasonble.
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/tranny3.jpg)
Tomorrow (Monday May 23) the Golf's 1.8L 8v gas engine will be removed. On the following Wednesday or Thursday Dave's 1991 hyd lifter 1.6TD will be dropped in. :)
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You boys are certainly not pissing around or shying away from the good fight. Nice to see such all encompassing projects tackled with no delay and thanks for keeping us all informed. I'm learning lots! Keep it up.
935racer - Good luck with the 6spd TDI Caddy. Thats sure to kick ass!
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Yeah I am stoked about putting a tdi in my truck, but first I have to go pullt he 1.6. I am gonna go do that right now, hopefully someopne willc ome join so I am not stuck doing a loaner engine pull. I'll try to drop the engine onff at joses tomorrow if possible mark. If you want I can help install it as well if it will help you out. If you want to come out tonight you are more than welcome to mark, but not really nessesary cause Is tillneed to put some new intermediate shaft races int he engine before you start toying with it so that you have premium oil pressur ewith that new oil pump I just put in there.
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I would be there if I could :P I will be there for the puting in and taking out and puting in and taking out..... of the TDI motor :D. Hope it goes smoother then the tranny pull.
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Dave making a hoist to lift the engine.
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/hoist1.jpg)
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/hoist2.jpg)
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/hoist3.jpg)
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/hoist4.jpg)
Everything (i.e. coolant lines, etc.) was disconnected from the engine at this point.
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/engine1.jpg)
... and the 1.6TD engine's out! The block will be chemical cleaned / powdercoated, but that's for later.
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/engine2.jpg)
The Garrett turbo is in flawless shape (hardly any play, blades look new) but I won't be keeping it for long.
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/engine3.jpg)
A couple Jettas parked outside.
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/jettas1.jpg)
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/jettas2.jpg)
The beater 16v Turbo ;) just kidding Dave. Anyway, this is his temporary car until his Caddy receives an euro TDI implant.
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/16vt.jpg)
Exactly what a 16vT is good for; grocery getting :P Dave's taking my 1.6TD to his work to put in new intermediate shaft to improve oil flow to the head.
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/16vt2.jpg)
The 1.6TD will then be dropped off tomorrow in Abbotsford, BC, where my Golf sits. I'm hoping the 1.6TD > Golf swap will start tomorrow night or Friday night.
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I just got back from dropping off the engine. Today I pulled the pan and oil cooler and t bel;t and such so That I could pull out the old intemediate shaft. Popped off the clutch and took the frost plug out of the backside there. Once I had the shaft out I got a guy froma local machine shop witht he right puller to remove the old shaft races and install the new double plated durabond races. I made sure that the holes in the races were perfectly aligned and than reassembled the ngien witht he new water pump and oil pump. The oil pressure will now be as brand new. Having dissasembled a few diesel engines I find this a very commont thing that is overlooked. Even whent hese engines are rebuilt the stock races are often left in and gradually the plating wheres off and you slowly lose oil pressure. You will first notcie it at idle, than slowly through all rpm ranges you will be short on oil pressure. I'll try and get mark to take some pictures of the old races so you guys know what to look for. Now I just gotta geta tdi... and a 6 speed... :twisted:
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Yeah the 16v turbo is just a grocery getter. actually this weekend I should be taking it off the road, I will be pulling the ngine and installing it in a buddys rabbit. The engien has megasquirt standalone fuel and spark management, and that huge spearco fmic, and a T3 super 60 turbo. bla bla. Can't wait to start messing with injection pumps and black smoke again.
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Golf 3, engine removed:
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/golf3_bay.jpg)
Left: 1.6TD. Right: Old 1.8L 8v.
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/engines.jpg)
I was really hoping to get the 1.6TD install started yesterday.. unfortunately it's gonna have to wait until Wednesday because of the shop's limited space/time :?. Anyway I'll continue posting updates.
The MK3 Golf will be partially stripped down to MK2 weight or less - 2,440lb maximum (wet)
Major thanks to Dave for helping me get the 1.6TD and keeping it in top shape. I owe ya; still working on getting the PD130 TDI from Finland for you.
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Update: Jose @ JS Performance (http://www.jsperformance.ca) has done a little more than I expected when he prepped my 1.6TD; he not only installed my new injection pump and injectors, he also installed the newer water pump from my 1.8L 8v, got new pulleys from a later TD, quickly picked up a new clutch & flywheel, got a few new hoses to clean up the engine (some original hoses were old/dirty, not necessary to replace but worth the cost), installed a longer ratio 5th gear, and a few more... I am pleasantly surprised by his attention towards the motor :thumbup: Not to forget Dave who replaced the intermediate shaft races to improve oil flow to the head.
As of yesterday, the 1.6TD was dropped into the Golf. It's already nearing completion and I cannot wait. :D I'm going to try to leave work early today so I can go back to JS Performance to get everything connected before starting the engine.
While searching for a MK3 1.9L TD instrument cluster, I was told by a VW wrecker that only 1 out of 30 clusters have a tachometer, while the rest has a clock. 1.9L clusters w/ a tach costs a lot on german ebay, too. So, instead of that I'm going to buy an aftermarket tach with this device:
http://www.dakotadigital.com/i...8.htm (http://www.dakotadigital.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=128/category_id=-1/home_id=-1/mode=prod/prd128.htm)
The DSL-2 with a flywheel/cam teeth sensor is an option, but I already have an alternator with a "W" terminal and don't want to spend $45 USD more for DSL-2.
Updated pictures will be posted in a few days.
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>>So, instead of that I'm going to buy an aftermarket tach with this device:
>> http://www.dakotadigital.com/i...8.htm
Please let me know how that works out for you. I just got Roger's kit with the pump pulley sensor and timing circuit. I'm planning to use that in my A1 with a normal gas tach. I got the "bag o' parts option" featured here:
http://www.4crawler.com/Diesel/CheapTricks/Tachometer/index.shtml#Kits
I'm still waiting on a friend to solder it up for me.
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The Golf TD started up on Friday. It ran great except for an extremely slow boost build-up. We did a test by keeping the wastegate closed all the time. I could only get about 15 PSI by 4,800 RPM. The highest boost I could ever get was 17 or 18.
We figured it might be because of the following:
1) The restrictive stock exhaust including a cat and two mufflers.
2) The wastegate may be stuck partially open.
Yesterday Brett, Felix and I moved the exhaust from the MK2 Jetta to the Golf. It was a direct fit; the exhaust routing of both the MK2 and MK3 are nearly identical. The Golf however has a shorter body so Brett cut the tip off a bit. He also added 90 degree mandrel bent tip facing down to the ground for better soot dispersal. The tip was also spray painted flat black and it looks nice :)
The exhaust swap alone (2.5" downpipe to 3" exhaust) increased my max. boost to about 24-26 PSI. The turbo still built boost relatively slowly so we figured that there might be a problem with the wastegate. The turbo shaft spins freely with very little play. The blades do not contact the housings.
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The off-boost performance with the Giles pump (Superior Fuel Injection) is awesome. It's nothing like a NA 1.6D; even my fatter MK3 Golf moves quicker with no boost than a MK2 1.6D. I would say it's comparable to a 1.8L or 2.0L 8v gasser. I was impressed.
If I put the pedal to the floor it smokes like fiery hell, which is exactly what I wanted as I have plans for more airflow in the near future. Partial throttle acceleration doesn't have much smoke, if at all, which is perfectly comfortable for daily driving. This is a very well balanced pump. I'm also running Smog's GTD nozzles.
Yesterday Felix and I left Chilliwack on our way to Abbotsford where he parked his 16v. Felix drove my Golf from Chilliwack (I'm in the Jetta) and he commented that it feels more powerful than his mildly modded 2.0L 16v, which can keep up with stock MK3 VR6s. He used to make fun of me & diesels and was strongly considering a 1.8T, but now he wants a TD :)
I parked the Jetta TD in Abbotsford, got into the Golf, and Felix went into his 16v. We returned to the highway on our way home.
WOW :o, the Golf was really quick whenever the boost exceeds 20 PSI. It pinned me back in the seat pretty good. Giles' pump contributed much to the performance.
It was 11:00pm and we continued driving on the highway at speeds of 120km/h to 160km/h until 10 kilometres later, when I felt a sudden loss of power. I quickly glanced down at the water temp gauge and was :eek: to see it exceed 110 degrees celsuis. I quickly pulled over with hazards on and turned off the engine before the car came to a stop.
I popped the hood and the first thing I saw was oil sprayed all over the engine bay, including the hood. The coolant volume went down a bit too.
The radiator fan was not running even with the ignition key in. We hardwired the fan to the battery and it ran OK though. Don't some VW fans continue to run even if the ignition is off? That's what mine did.
There was some oil left in the pan, so after the coolant cooled to 90 degrees I tried cranking the motor and it was very slow and lumpy with no immediate ignition. Didn't sound good too. Called in a tow truck to take the Golf back to Abbotsford, then I drove the Jetta home in North Delta (2:30am).
I went back to Abbotsford at 8:00am this morning and after a quick diagnosis we think it may be just the headgasket/rings. Jose @ JS Performance will pull the head tmw though, so we'll have more details as to what the damage(s) are.
If it's just the headgasket, that'll be a relief. I already have a 1.9L hg that might be wise to install. Raceware head studs would be a good idea as well. The 1.6TD was completely stock with ~200k km during the failure.
After the fixes, a GT20 turbo + exhaust manifold, maybe a gasser intake, and an intercooler will go in. I'm looking forward to eating more VR6s :)
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>>So, instead of that I'm going to buy an aftermarket tach with this device:
>> http://www.dakotadigital.com/i...8.htm
Please let me know how that works out for you.
I just figured that my G-Tech's tachometer does the job, so I'll likely stick with that and not need another aftermarket tach for a while :)
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sorry to hear about your bad luck
was it the head gasket that failed? with the higher boost and more power?
glad to hear that you're happy with my pump.
keep in touch, if u want any adjustments to the pump let me know
by email.
Giles
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Thanks Giles. Yes, I'm 90% sure it's just the headgasket that failed due to overboost. The head will be pulled tomorrow (Wednesday June 8 2005).
Finally, a picture of the entire car:
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/golf.jpg)
Downturned exhaust tip on the left:
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/exh_tip.jpg)
I took the picture below while the Golf was following me on a highway. This was approx. 1 hour before it broke down :( I really miss driving it. If it's only a headgasket damage, I'm hoping it'll be back on the road this weekend as I already have a 1.9L headgasket I should have installed earlier! I might have to wait for Raceware headstuds too, though.
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/golf2.jpg)
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malone - do you know what kind of EGTs you were hitting at those high fuel and boost levels?
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Unfortunatly I know the answer to this. He doesn't as the egt gauge wasn't hooked up as we were going to install the GT20 turbo and manifold but didn't have the right lines for the oil return. We didn't have a plug for the old manifold and didn't want to swap manifolds, so we just left it without for what we thought would be a day or so, unfortunatley this happened, before we had the chance to get the turbo's swaped.
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Let us know if you find any clues, malone. Good luck and sorry to hear about this set-back!
Given the observation of elevated coolant temps, it's likely the head warped and let combustion gasses pass by it. This would overpressurize the coolant system and let coolant out of the pressure relief valve and also inject air into the coolant system, causing a vicious cycle of more and more overheating as soon as the leak started. Hopefully the head settled back into "flat" position after the temps cooled back down, and didn't take on a permanent warped shape. Although usually these head gaskets will not re-seal once they let combustion gasses pass by.
The chain of events and the original cause is a mystery though... this is a hard one to diagnose. I've had a sticking thermostat cause this before. It would let some coolant by it so was OK if you babied the engine, but the temps would get pretty hot if you used power for very long. I actually was the one who damaged it, physically bending it by accident when I was installing it at one point. Learned the importance of installing the thermostat cover squarely and tightening the two retaining bolts evenly from that. And then on dad's Rabbit, recently a faulty coolant pressure relief valve caused overpressurization of the system, which cracked the expansion tank, and let coolant escape through the cracks. Eventual low coolant levels resulted in an overheat and blown head gasket - again combustion gasses were escaping into the cooling system.
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Thanks for the details fspGTD, it's good to know. What would cause the pressure that forced a lot of oil out of the dipstick tube?
I'm still quite anxious as to see what the damage(s) are; I will be leaving work at around lunchtime today so we can pull the head. Jose was too busy to do it himself yesterday. I'll post the details in this thread later, and hopefully others can learn from this.
A fellow vwdiesel.net member is kind enough to ship a 1.9L TD head soon in exchange for my spare ALH TDI head, so if I need another TD head it won't be a problem. The 1.9 head will need to be rebuilt though.
I'm hoping the pistons/block are OK (in case the EGT was too high). If not, the injection pump, transmission, and other parts will have to be reinstalled to a new block, then re-do the timing... all this in less than 1 week since the initial swap was completed.
Spike, if you're reading this, can you include a 1.9L bracket (for alternator, etc.) in the shipment with the head? Thanks.
Can anyone advise where I can find a 1.6TD block? I'd like to find another source or two so I can prepare to buy a block ASAP if I have to. A local wrecker has a complete 1.6TD motor (188,000km) with pump & turbo for $1,250, or $1,000 CAD ($800 USD) with core TD return. I could part out the 1.6 head, turbo, and pump to get some $ back.
Thanks,
Mark
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I overheated my 1.6td not too long ago, my motor mount managed to smash the fan schroud in on a vicious launch and by the time I hit a high speed (170km/hr) on a side road I started to loose power I then kept my foot into it with 24 psi boost and alot of fuel and I seen grey/white smoke coming out the tailpipe.When she stalled I opened the hood to see oil everywhere coming out of my dipstick tube and my crank case dump hose to the ground. I pulled the head off and the cylinders were badly scored so the oil that was forced out was due to the massive blow-by.I hope this is not the fate of your engine but it sure sounds like it :( .I guess I should add that my pyro was bottomed out at 1500 degrees for mabye 15 seconds,however I do know for sure that this was not the problem it just simply overheated.
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Yeah, it was definitely a blow-by.
Bad news: scored cylinder walls.
Good news: the head gasket is in one piece :roll:
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/headpull.jpg)
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/headpull2.jpg)
The following are pictures of the worst cylinder:
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/headpull3.jpg)
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/headpull4.jpg)
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/headpull5.jpg)
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/headpull6.jpg)
The head just sitting in the back of the Golf:
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/headpull7.jpg)
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/headpull8.jpg)
Live & learn.
A few options to get the car running again:
1) Bore the block to get rid of the scores. Can run 79.5mm (1.9L) pistons. A 3mm bore should clear the damage well. New bearings, new gaskets. I'm probably looking at $3,300 CAD for all new parts including a head rebuild w/ 3-angle valve job. It will become a pratically new engine with good performance potential. I won't be doing the complete rebuild labour myself as I'm not proficient enough for that task.
2) Get an used 1.6TD longblock with pump & turbo for $1,000 CAD. It has 180,000km and comes with warranty. I can sell the pump and turbo so in the end it may cost me roughly $500 CAD. I should ask if their warranty lasts more than 3 days :P
I'm currently exploring other options.
Option #1 is appealing at first, but I'm not in the best financial position for that right now, and it's discouraged by the fact that I can import a low km euro PD130 or PD150 complete longlock for the same price delivered to my door. The PD has better fuel economy (for the power) and more power potential. On the other hand, if I ever switch to a PD, I might be bothered by the fact that all the time & money spent on the 1.6TD swap has gone down the toilet in just 3 days. I'll be happier to have a 1.6TD again and get back on the road soon. Further, I need to work on my Jetta TDI project.
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The coolant was in fact 95% water. We were going to flush it and put in full glycol coolant the next day.
Could it be possible that the engine overheated more easily with water, since water doesn't dissipate heat well during a long sustained run? Or is EGT to blame for the cylinder damage?
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Water is the best coolant to use in your engine. It has far better heat transfer characteristics than ethylene glycol antifreeze. The 2 unfortunate things about water are that it freezes and it rusts/corrodes everything, making antifreeze a necessity. Most racers use straight water or water with a corrosion inhibitor such as redline water wetter.
I doubt that the straight water was a factor in your "meltdown". I would lean towards high piston temps as the cause. The #4 cylinder has the poorest coolant flow around it so it appears to have sustained the most damage while #1 appears relatively unscathed. When you get the next one built I would suggest that you get the pyrometer installed before you do too much 160km/h cruising... :)
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The #4 cylinder has the poorest coolant flow around it so it appears to have sustained the most damage while #1 appears relatively unscathed.
When you get the next one built I would suggest that you get the pyrometer installed before you do too much 160km/h cruising... :)
Good info. As for your suggestion, I'm pretty sure I already know that :?
The pyrometer is the reason why my older Jetta 1.6TD is still alive. A pyrometer was also installed in the Golf the first day it started but unfortunately I did not install a thermocouple early enough (so no pyro reading), as already stated earlier in this thread. I also used to unplug the Golf's LDA so it doesn't overfuel much at all (low EGT). However, since the boost problem was partially solved after the exhaust upgrade that Sunday, the LDA was reconnected and I then got too excited with the new found power. For only fifteen minutes. It's my first engine failure as well. Lesson learned.
May I suggest not street racing a police cruiser again like you did a few weeks ago? :P Getting busted for that here could result in a license suspension for a year. I wish I got off as easy as you did.
Sorry, I just felt like kicking myself or not having installed a thermocouple earlier for the Golf, and since the engine failure I'll feel peeved if someone suggests using a pyrometer like I've never heard of one before.
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Malone - looks like good progress. Bottom end damage $uck$ man, sorry to hear.
I think I spot a headgasket leak! The "blackened" area of the headgasket fire ring between problem cylinder and water jacket on the back side (opposite of prechamber) between cylinder and water jacket opening that is towards the inside of the block. Looks like a classic overheat related cylinder pressure to water jacket head gasket leak. [Edit:] here I added a circle to your pic around the spot that looks to me like a headgasket leak:
(http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid172/p83bd113763be72cffbe6035bdd6c0ecc/f3c6aaad.jpg)
Blow-by out the dipstick is a separate problem... and yes, I think it sounds reasonable that the pistons expanded from excessive heat enough to seize with the cylinder walls. An interesting thing to note about the scoring is that it couldn't possibly come from the rings, because it extends upwards to the top of the block beyond where the upper ring travels. The scoring must have been caused by the piston itself.
The interesting thing is, your piston tops look fine - I don't see any melted or missing aluminum areas, etc as I have seen on some other engines. Maybe this engine had relatively tight piston-bore clearances, so the excess EGTs caused the pistons to seize before the piston tops melted? Interesting...
Hate to say something perhaps smart-alec, but 22 psi is a LOT to run without an intercooler! (regardless of compressor efficiency.) I'll bet your intake air temps were pretty high up there... maybe they surpassed 300 deg F. (I have measured over 200 deg. F at 14 psi out of a Garrett 1.6lTD turbo... 22 psi is quite a bit more!) Combining those kinds of intake air temps with copious fueling levels sounds to me like a recipe for some pretty exessive combustion chamber temps.
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Jake might be on to something with the head gasket leak. The combustion gasses may have temporarily displaced the coolant and caused the overheating, the end result is the same either way though. Pistons got too big and seized...
I don't think the bore is all that bad on the #4 cylinder. First oversize pistons would easily clean that up. It would be difficult to install 1.9 pistons in a 1.6 due to the difference in pin diameters. 1.9 pistons are crazy expensive anyway.
Back in my motorcycle wrenching days we would have used muriatic acid to dissolve the aluminum "deposits" off the bore, gave it a quick hone and installed a new piston and rings. Did it countless times. Performance 2 stroke engines were bad for this kind of damage. We used to joke that they were "gasoline cooled". A few seconds of lean mixture is all it takes to run up the temps and seize them...
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Hey malone, since you live in BC, correct me if im wrong, parts shouldnt cost all that much for a 1.6td.
When i did my rebuild it cost me $700 in parts and $about $700 for machining.
$700 parts from VM Autohaus (http://www.vmautohaus.com/include):
-.020" over piston and rings
-crank bearings, intermediate shaft bearings
-top end seal kit and bottom end seal kit
-front gas engine mount
-valve guides for head and some other things i cant exactly remember
and machining for $700 was at dunrite performance in langley. $25 a hole boring, polishing crank, cam, intermediate shafts journals, plain deck, and rebuild head
the guy there did an awesome job, and is one of the only shops i found close to me that had the right size boring bits for vw blocks at a low price.
I remember Canada Engines quoted me $2000 for this job.
anyway i know my parts list is not exactly complete and the prices are approximates, but VM will give you a quote, and they are the cheapest supplier of vw/audi OEM parts around, and so will dunrite.
also since you didnt mension anything wrong with the head, the head was the majority of the machining cost. So you'd get away with it cheaper then me. When i looked around for an engine i was in ur feet, either buy a used one or rebuid mine and get a new engine, so choice 2 ruled in this case.
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Wow, nice observation Jake. As always, I find your posts informative and enjoyable to read.
Thanks guys for the great info.
I had a brand new ALH TDI intercooler sitting in the back of the Golf during the failure :P I was also thinking of getting a good FMIC instead.
On the bright side, this problem will improve my awareness for the TDI project, which can be more expensive to fix.
A 1.9L piston costs $40 CAD more than a 1.6TD oversized piston. It does add up a little when you count 3 more cylinders though. Should there be any concerns with cylinder wall strength after boring 3mm+ for 1.9L pistons? QuickTD, you're right about pin diameters... something to talk to the machinist about. Thanks :)
Sabi: When did you get your engine rebuilt? e.g. this year? Did they put the block back together after the machining process for you (probably important to check tolerances), and was it included in the $700 cost you mentioned? Or did you reassemble the block yourself?
I was leaning towards a used engine, but you're right.. new's nice.
As for my 1.6L TD head, I didn't really check its condition because I have a 1.9L head coming.. or if I were to buy a used engine in good condition, it'll almost always come with a head attached.
However, after looking at the rebuild cost which isn't too bad; if I can re-use my existing 1.6TD head I might go for a block rebuild. Then get the 1.9L head fully done another time, especially after selling the Jetta TD.
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he checked al the tollerances for me. He had the head assembled ready to go.
And the block partially. Only thing i had to do myself was install the pistons, which he would have done for me, however there was a problem with the getting the lower con rod bearings, so it was left to me. But that was easy. oh and ofcourse i did all the bottom end seals myself.
So when I took it in to him the bottom end was not dissassembled, still had oil pan on, and ofcourse i took off the mounts and other exterior block parts.
So if your question is did he measure everything, yes. That is what the cost was for!
Only one confusing thing was he told me to use largest gasket size available which is the 3rd one to be on the safe side because he did not find measurments for the gasket thicknesses, but looking at my compression now, i could have used the second one.
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I am a relative newbie to Diesels, but in Gas VW stuff, you can't just swap a 1.8 piston for a 2.0 to get the bigger bore, because the strokes are totally different so the pin heights are way off. I don't know if that is the same for the 1.6TD vs. 1.9 TD, but I would expect so.
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I'll still go for 1.6TD overbore pistons if 1.9TD pistons are too much work to adapt.
Sabi: Quick question; how long did it take him to work on your block? Just the block, not the head.
Thanks,
Mark
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oh like 2/3 days if i recall right for both head and engine. Thats not including the first day on which he threw it in the hot tank for cleaning, pulled it apart, and inspected it to tell me what it needs. Not long at all if you have the parts ready for him. It was in the middle of winter, so maybe he wasnt that busy.
ok so i dug up some stuff to be more accurate:
Dun-Rite Performance
6-8100 Capstan Way, Richmond (i donno why i said langley)
Tel: 604-278-5199, can remember the guys name.
so total price for all machining & head rebuild $768
And the parts:
pistons w/rings $80 each/$320 all
main bearing set $44
con rod bearing set $32
engine block kit $55
head gasket kit $58
head gasket $32
valve guide $3/$24 for all
exhaust valves $10/$40 all
timing belt $20
total - $710 with taxes
not a bad deal to me! Where are you getting your parts?
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If you are trying to keep costs low, 1.9TD pistons are not the way to go. I haven't been able to find them for less than $250CDN each... The 1.9TD pistons won't bolt in either, the piston pins are 2mm larger than the 1.6 pins. You will need some custom machining on the connecting rods to make it work.
Seems a bit more hassle than you prolly wanna deal with.
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hey
having just water in and pushing the engine with more boost and no IC
will i think have overheated the engine temp and then blow the head
gasket.
once all the water was burned and or leaked out (at 160 km/h)
then the engine block would over heat and start to seize the pistons.
pls do put in the IC right away. never...never.... never run your engine
without at least 35-50% gylcol and rest water. redline water wetter is
also a good idea, it improves the rad efficiency.
Giles
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I'll concur with others who strongly suggest you add an IC or water injection BEFORE you turn up the fuel load or boost pressure. Over in the Mercedes diesel world, we've seen some huge EGT/coolant temp differentials between IC and non IC engines, even when operating under stock fuel load settings.
BTW: I'm a longtime VW diesel guy, but have almost no experience with turboed VW's--what is the stock boost pressure range for the turbo IDI engines? Our Mercedes OM603 engines rarely exceed 16 psi, even when the wastegate signal line is blocked. I'm amazed at the boost pressures the VW engines can generate.
-
stock boost pressure is 9-12 psi, correct me if im wrong.
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Guys, you can bet an intercooler will go in.
so total price for all machining & head rebuild $768
And the parts:
pistons w/rings $80 each/$320 all
main bearing set $44
con rod bearing set $32
engine block kit $55
head gasket kit $58
head gasket $32
valve guide $3/$24 for all
exhaust valves $10/$40 all
timing belt $20
total - $710 with taxes
These are in CAD currency, correct? The prices look decent. Here's my first list (not complete):
1) 1.6TD overbore pistons w/ rings, $110 each.
2) main bearings $44
3) lifters and valves - $10 ea/$160 all
4) con rod bearing set $24
5) head gasket kit $76
(already have a main head gasket)
Your price list looks better overall. Definitely not a bad deal! And thanks for the contact info :)
935racer is helping by getting machining/parts quotes today.
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My stock peak boost on both 1.6TDs (with Garrett T3s) was 9 to 10 PSI.
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umm $110 for pistons is a litle to much.
How much oversize are they?
mine were .020" over, so it sthe next size after stock.
i think max is .040" over, cnat realy bore anymore then that, form what i've been told.
also valves are usually pretty good in vw's, its the guides that wear, u probably wont need them, only reason i changed my exhaust valves is because they were hitting the pistons.
Yeah they are CAN $. VM Autohaus is in burnaby, i think they can carry out parts locally. your in abbotsford arent u?
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I just called VM autohaus and they qutoed me 108 for each piston, 020 overbore. They were gotze brand pistons I can get the original kolbenschidt for considerably cheaper... hmmm do you have an acount with them or something? Mark, we need tog et your engine out and I'll rip it apart and take it to a mchien shop to make sure the block can still be salvaged.
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umm $110 for pistons is a litle to much.
How much oversize are they?
mine were .020" over, so it sthe next size after stock.
i think max is .040" over, cnat realy bore anymore then that, form what i've been told.
also valves are usually pretty good in vw's, its the guides that wear, u probably wont need them, only reason i changed my exhaust valves is because they were hitting the pistons.
Yeah they are CAN $. VM Autohaus is in burnaby, i think they can carry out parts locally. your in abbotsford arent u?
IIRC these 1.6TD oversized pistons are 1.00mm larger (just under 0.040"). I was told the size but forgot to record it. Will check again tomorrow. $110 for the piston is already below MSRP but $80 does sound better.
The valvetrain parts are for the 1.9L head. I don't know exactly what the condition of the 1.9L head is as I haven't received it yet but I was told it needs a rebuild. Small valvetrain parts aren't *that* expensive either so a new set would be nice.
I live in North Delta but I work in Vancouver Mon-Fri and go to Abbotsford, Aldergrove, and Chilliwack for diesel stuff. JS Performance in Abbotsford is also my storefront for TDI parts and custom chip programming (usually weekends for chipping). Yeah, I drive a lot :P
I checked out VM Autohaus a few months ago and their prices seem good. I'll get a full TD parts quote from them soon. *edit: nevermind, looks like 935racer already did it for me :)
Thanks,
Mark
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I just called VM autohaus and they qutoed me 108 for each piston, 020 overbore. They were gotze brand pistons I can get the original kolbenschidt for considerably cheaper... hmmm do you have an acount with them or something? Mark, we need tog et your engine out and I'll rip it apart and take it to a mchien shop to make sure the block can still be salvaged.
Do you know the difference in metal type/longevity/etc. of gotze pistons vs. kolbenschidt pistons? Are both available in 0.020" bigger size? shox75, can you tell me which type pistons you got for $80 ea.?
As for machining, sounds good. They can bore only cylinder #4 (worst damage) and see if the scores are removed... then proceed to do all other cylinders.
I'm off work at 4:00pm and it's usually a 1 1/2 hour drive to Abbotsford so I'll be there at 5:30pm if we can tow the Golf to the Aldergrove shop. I'll have to head out sometime after 9:00pm to go to Richmond so I've enough time for the tow and block disassembly.
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I just called VM autohaus and they qutoed me 108 for each piston, 020 overbore. They were gotze brand pistons I can get the original kolbenschidt for considerably cheaper... hmmm do you have an acount with them or something? Mark, we need tog et your engine out and I'll rip it apart and take it to a mchien shop to make sure the block can still be salvaged.
By the way, Dave, we're set up to buy your PD130 today. It needs to be crated a bit more for safety during shipment so it will go out of Ireland by mid next week.
Also, check your PM about a VNT20/GT22v turbo that is available now for your PD130.
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i cant remember wat kind of pistons i got, but i do get a discount there. Tell them that Sabi referred you and to see if they can match $80 the price i payed, make sure you talk to Chris at VM. He's the guy i deal with.
VM should know wat kinda pistons i used.
Good Luck, did you get similar prices at Dun-Rite?
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i cant remember wat kind of pistons i got, but i do get a discount there. Tell them that Sabi referred you and to see if they can match $80 the price i payed, make sure you talk to Chris at VM. He's the guy i deal with.
VM should know wat kinda pistons i used.
Good Luck, did you get similar prices at Dun-Rite?
I'll go by 935racer's machinist first and then maybe visit Dun-Rite for a quote. If I go to DR I'll tell them that you sent me.
Thanks,
Mark
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An update:
I no longer need this (Image: Factory A4 TDI intercooler):
(http://www.dieselinside.com/tdi_smic.jpg)
... as I picked this up yesterday (Image: Precision Turbo & Engine intercooler with 21"x6"x3.5" Garrett core):
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/pte1.jpg)
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/pte2.jpg)
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/pte3.jpg)
I also picked this up, today (Image: Taylor battery relocation kit):
(http://www.fastpts.com/hazel-doc/2b.jpg)
The 1.6 block was removed from my Golf & disassembled at Dave's (935racer) new shop as of a few days ago. We're still waiting for my 1.9 head before sending it to a machinist with the block. O-ringing will be done.
-
Mark, kudos on pressing forward despite recent engine troubles.
That is a nice looking cooler... it looks like it will flow well, with little pressure drop. I hope the install goes smoothly into the nose of the A3.
Would love to see some pics and hear the details of how the o-ringing is performed!
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Mark, kudos on pressing forward despite recent engine troubles.
That is a nice looking cooler... it looks like it will flow well, with little pressure drop. I hope the install goes smoothly into the nose of the A3.
Would love to see some pics and hear the details of how the o-ringing is performed!
Thanks Jake. I'm happy with the intercooler choice. The other intercooler I was considering was "Johnny Racecar (http://www.johnnyracecar.com/)", which is far cheaper. Its end tanks are not that great (still not bad considering the price though) and it has a thinner 2.75" core.
Engine rebuild/intercooler installation pictures to follow.
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935racer called a few local machinists for o-ringing quotes and they all recommended against o-ringing both the block & head because they believed it's unnecessary for my setup.
I'm starting to agree that o-ringing it all may be overkill. A 1.9L headgasket and good Raceware head studs will likely hold up fine. I will be running approx. 26 PSI boost with the GT20 and will not exceed 30-35 PSI with any turbo anytime.
Comments?
It should be noted that improving the head flow may lower the pressure/resistance between the head and turbo. Thus, at xx PSI there'll be more air crammed into my cylinders compared to a stock 1.6TD head.
-
Mark I am still planning on geting the block o ringed, just not the head as well. I think it will hold just fine. Its miles better than what you had before.
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It sounds like you are planning on using o-rings in conjunction with the factory head gasket, rather than o-rings instead of the factory head gasket - yeah? I can see how that would be a lot easier, as you would maintain the factory gasket to seal all the oil and coolant passages.
I'm interested in hearing more details as it happens, IE: if you end up making the o-ring groove in the shape of a circle of if you make it with a "bulge" surrounding the prechamber area, how deep of a groove you cut and how thick of o-ring wire you use and what material, etc. I haven't heard how these details are done on an inline VW block before and am looking forward to see it! And of course, want to hear how it works out in the end too! :wink:
I have a hard time seeing how a multi-layer steel gasket could "blow out" from too much combustion chamber pressure like a fiberous one can. I mean, it's pretty much solid metal when clamped down... I had a fiberous one have it's fire ring "blow out" sideways towards a cooling chamber opening, allowing combustion gasses to escape into cooling system, when I was experimenting with LPG fumigation and it detonated too heavily. The fiberous "backing" of the OEM head gasket is just not very strong. I have not heard of this happening from simply running too much boost, but haven't experimented myself with a whole lot either, maybe others on this board can tell you of how much they have safely managed to run on these blocks.
Good luck!
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Yeah I am or ringing the block and using the a 1.9 metal head gasket and head. O ringing the head and block was gonna cause too many issues and would require a custom gasket to ensure the coolant wouldn't piss around everywhere. I'm sure mark will take pics on monday when the maching is all done. Tomorrow I will get the block back from hot tanking and powdercoat it near chrome. so it will be the most pimpin diesel around. Than on thursday it goes back the machine shop to get intermediate shaft races re installed ( had to take the ones out I just put in because of hot tanking) and the cyclinders bored .040 over and than the block will also be O ringed. I won't get it back on friday cause its a holiday up here (canada day) so I should have it back on monday and I will start the short block assembly. I will get all new valves and a 3 angle valve grind and I'll port match and polish the manifolds/head. Once I get all that doen and the head on the block I am gonna take it to colt cams where it willg et a custom ground cam. And than when thats done I'll pwdercoat every piece possible and put he pump back on and time the engine and throw it back in marks car and bam hes gonna have the fastest 1.6 around.
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Sounds great Dave.
I finally got the camera back and took a few pictures.
This is my first item that was powdercoated by Dave's new powdercoater. Turned out real nice on the first try; definitely looks good enough for a rear engine mount:
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/mount1.jpg) (http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/mount2.jpg)
Various powder colours:
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/powder.jpg)
The #4 piston damage looks ghastly. The other pistons aren't scratched much, last I checked. I found it interesting that the #4 oil squirter was broken while the others were fine. Four brand new oil squirters are being ordered.
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/piston1.jpg)
1 of 4 new pistons:
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/piston2.jpg)
New clutch to go with a 210mm pressure plate. Brett plans to shave the flywheel :twisted: (not pictured at this time)
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/clutch.jpg)
I've got some pictures of Dave's PD130 Caddy project. I'll post them in a new thread as his project progresses.
The Golf as it sits now:
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/golf3.jpg)
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Great looking powdercoat!
How was the #4 oil squirter broken? Was the tube broken off shooting oil the wrong way, or was it not shooting oil at all? That is a very interesting find...
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I have no idea if the squirter was working or not. I remember when I was pullign the block apart I was like holy *** #4 is done, than I pulled the oil squirters out and I was like oh #4 oil squirter is toast, the tube pointing towards the piston was broken right off. I just got the block back fromt he machine shop from hot tanking so I am gonna go bead blast it now and get it all prepped for powdercoating.
-
the tube pointing towards the piston was broken right off.
:shock: Now I wonder how that could happen! Someone must have been inside the engine before I suppose?
-
Well right before I sold the engine to mark I put a new oil pump in it and replaced the intermediate shaft races, so I had looked at the bottom end before, but it doesn;t appear to have ever been rebuilt before. The thing is I cleaned the pan out good when I sold the engine to mark, and when I ripped apart the engien I found that little tube for the squirter in the oil, so I was wondering if somehow the extreme heat busted the little bugger off. I dont; see hoe it could be hot enough for that but who knows man. I am gonna get mark to take some pictures of the busted oil squirter, I ordered the new ones and they are supposed to be here tomorrow. Now back to prepping marks block for powdercoating :D
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I've had my 1.9 twin turbo (k14,HX30) running for a couple of weeks now and as I got her broke in I would up the boost a little and at 28-29 psi and I havn't uped the fuel any from 100% more than stock and I'am having problems with my steel HG and I'm using 12.9 grade capsrews to hold it together at first I toruqed them to 70 ft-lbs and after having coolant blow out of my resivor I cranked them down to 90 ft-lbs and Its holding up alot better but I still think its not 100% as well as this there was a little oil in the coolant and I also believe that the crankcase was being pressurized too.So you can see
what possible issues there is to come up against. I do believe that 25-26 psi is a comfortable safe max for this setup.Mine can hold 29 psi through a couple of gears but can not sustain it for long enough, thats before the re torqued head :roll: .I'm going to push my beast a bit more each day and see if she holds,If not I'll have to pull it apart and do somthing about it.
My old 1.6TD on 24 psi put out aprox 120-125 crank HP (G-teched)
So far this 1.9TD engine feels like 130-135 with more to come :wink:
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I've had my 1.9 twin turbo (k14,HX30) running for a couple of weeks now
The cats outta the bag now Andy...
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I'am having problems with my steel HG
<snip>
My old 1.6TD on 24 psi put out aprox 120-125 crank HP (G-teched)
So far this 1.9TD engine feels like 130-135 with more to come :wink:
Thanks for sharing your experience. Did you modify your 1.6TD and 1.9TD head? Do you have head studs? Do you think you should have done an o-ring?
How do you figure crank HP via G-Tech numbers? G-Tech reports net horsepower, which is lower than wheel and crank HP. What formula did you use to come up with crank HP?
I forgot to mention that my rods will be shot-peened. It is surprisingly inexpensive so it will be nice to get them done before the block goes back together.
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Oh, andy2, if you could post pictures of your twin turbo install that would be great. I'd love to see it.
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Here are a couple pictures of the oil squirters. On the right is #4:
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/oilsquirter1.jpg)
Close-up of #4:
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/oilsquirter2.jpg)
My 1.6TD block after being hot-tanked. The factory green paint was stripped away:
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/hottank1.jpg)
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/hottank2.jpg)
Sand blasting:
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/sandblast1.jpg)
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/sandblast2.jpg)
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/sandblast3.jpg)
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/sandblast4.jpg)
Giving it a baby shower :D (chemical cleaner, actually):
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/babyshower.jpg)
Powder coating:
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/powdercoat1.jpg)
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/powdercoat2.jpg)
After 30 minutes in the oven:
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/powdercoat3.jpg)
I think it looks great so far :D There are a few splotches on the block so a second layer of powdercoat will be applied. Then it finally will go to a machinist for cylinder boring, o-ringing, etc.
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When Giles and I G-teched the 1.6 powered jetta It weighed around the same as Brysons 91-92 jetta,mine is a 91 jetta also.We just used his weight as a pretty close estimate.And I got 110 hp readings from the G-tech (Wheel hp).I've driven a couple chiped TDI's (110-120hp I think) and my old beast would just out do them.
I'm sorry to say I have no pics :( ,Now with the engine in the car its pretty well hid and can not be seen well with all the plumling etc.If I have to pull the engine for o-ringing I will do my best to get some pics.
I don't want to Hijack this great thread and I'm probably to lazy to start one but Bruce AKA QuickTD played a huge role in this project.He baiscally walked my dad(master fabricator) and I through this project via PM's,Which worked quite well I should add.Bruce has not yet seen the finished project either,So at the next area GTG we will have some pics regardless I'm sure.
We figured the Steel HG would hold with some good bolts and It still might be ok.I will report on how its holding up.
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The chemical cleaner is actually a primer for the powder coat process. I just pulled the block out of the oven and damn, its nice! I'll put another coat on it today and and that should clean it up a bunch more. Definately the most pimpin 1.6 block around.
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Sweet, Dave.
I seem to have trouble calling High Perf Engines while at work. Is it cool if you call them and ask about bores & o-ringing? Or just find out if they'll be open this Saturday morning/afternoon and I'll take the block & pistons there. Thanks :)
I got 110 hp readings from the G-tech (Wheel hp).I've driven a couple chiped TDI's (110-120hp I think) and my old beast would just out do them.
That must've been a fun fabrication project. :) If I recall correctly the official WHP figure by VW for a 2.0 16 valve is 108whp. It's rated at 134bhp (crank). With my G-Tech a stock 2.0 16v reported between 95 and 100nhp (net or G-Tech HP), and then 108 - 110nhp with a 91 octane chip, intake, and exhaust upgrade.
If you're getting 110nhp and the vehicle data is accurate, you probably have at least 135bhp.
Anyway, 110nhp in a light car will likely outrun a chipped AND nozzled TDI (120 - 130nhp), or at least keep up with it, which is quite impressive.
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Hi Malone
I've just read your sad thread (I've been absent for a little while; although probably not missed! )
Could I just make a few diagnoses?
1. Looking at the picture of #4 piston and gasket it doesnt look like it was definitely blown at the point ringed by Jake... The oily smearing could have happened whilst lifting the head.... I can see the same grey 'seal' underneath the smear that's around the rest of the gasket...
2. You say you lost some water? Well as pointed out by someone water has a far greater SHC than pure anti F... About twice infact IIRC...BUT with a boiling point of 100 deg C at atmospheric and maybe 120deg C or so at 14.5lb/sqin compared with 200 deg ballpark for pure AF; A sustained push of the car soon gets the water up to its boiling point. So a coolant mixture is a compromise in SHC's and BP's
[I used to run all my gasser VWs on about 1% glycol no problem]
When I first got into diesels about 4 years ago I happened across an old boy who had spent a lot of time on these 1.6 TDs and he said the anti f mixture was almost essential as their operating temperature was too high for water when under load and you will push water out through the filler cap.
3. As you water was undoubtably boiling and evidently #4 bore has the least coolant around it then it was probably not helped by 'cavitation'.
4. Looking at the crown of the piston I see it is ultra clean AND dry with a heat 'tidemark' in the middle where at the speed you were going it was getting 'ucking hot' due to an (unfortunately) perfect combustion.
This may well have been the cause of the 'well fitted' piston to smear against the bore.
5. Assuming you didn't have ring damage; could your blow by have been caused by a combination of ring gap allignment (On another site I've thrashed this out about ring rotation and the possible benefits of pin locators) and with your super boost maybe the doubling or so of peak pressures at TDC creating the high blowby?
Anyway that's my spouting over... I await the wolverines making a meal of me ;o)
Whilst I've got peoples attention ...
What's the usual causes of individual hydraulic lifter weakness after 20000 miles?
Mark the Miser UK
Yeah, it was definitely a blow-by.
Bad news: scored cylinder walls.
Good news: the head gasket is in one piece :roll:
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/headpull.jpg)
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/headpull2.jpg)
The following are pictures of the worst cylinder:
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/headpull3.jpg)
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/headpull4.jpg)
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/headpull5.jpg)
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/headpull6.jpg)
The head just sitting in the back of the Golf:
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/headpull7.jpg)
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/headpull8.jpg)
Live & learn.
A few options to get the car running again:
1) Bore the block to get rid of the scores. Can run 79.5mm (1.9L) pistons. A 3mm bore should clear the damage well. New bearings, new gaskets. I'm probably looking at $3,300 CAD for all new parts including a head rebuild w/ 3-angle valve job. It will become a pratically new engine with good performance potential. I won't be doing the complete rebuild labour myself as I'm not proficient enough for that task.
2) Get an used 1.6TD longblock with pump & turbo for $1,000 CAD. It has 180,000km and comes with warranty. I can sell the pump and turbo so in the end it may cost me roughly $500 CAD. I should ask if their warranty lasts more than 3 days :P
I'm currently exploring other options.
Option #1 is appealing at first, but I'm not in the best financial position for that right now, and it's discouraged by the fact that I can import a low km euro PD130 or PD150 complete longlock for the same price delivered to my door. The PD has better fuel economy (for the power) and more power potential. On the other hand, if I ever switch to a PD, I might be bothered by the fact that all the time & money spent on the 1.6TD swap has gone down the toilet in just 3 days. I'll be happier to have a 1.6TD again and get back on the road soon. Further, I need to work on my Jetta TDI project.
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Thanks for your input, Mark. I don't see this as a sad thread; I'm happy that we have the chance to rebuild my TD motor - this is what I've been wanting for a while. FYI that doean't mean I blew the original 200k km motor on purpose :oops: :lol:
The engine problem also made me more aware (i.e. pushing the engine without a EGT gauge isn't the brightest idea) so I'll be more careful this time. :)
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Thanks for your input, Mark. I don't see this as a sad thread; I'm happy that we have the chance to rebuild my TD motor - this is what I've been wanting for a while. FYI that doean't mean I blew the original 200k km motor on purpose :oops: :lol:
Ha,
I get sad when I wear a tyre [tire]? out :shock:
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Ha,
I get sad when I wear a tyre [tire]? out :shock:
That just reminded me; the Golf's front tires are almost bald :). I'm thinking of replacing the current steelies with new wheels; 15x6.5" or 15x7.0" Rota Slipstreams, which are somewhere from 11 to 13 pounds each (without tire). Low price, too. Winter tires will go on the steelies later for cold season.
O-ringing is a little more difficult to find than I thought. Dave went to BD Power today (www.dieselperformance.com) and they said hardly anyone has o-rings small enough for a 1.6TD block because the bores are unusually small. A couple other machinists we contacted also do not have the proper size o-rings.
It seems that this may be more hassle than it's worth. The metal 1.9L headgasket and Raceware headstuds should be fine with 26-30 PSI of boost.
So now the block is going back to the machinist today or tomorrow to get the bores, etc. done ASAP. Hopefully it'll be done by Friday so Dave can start reassembling the block this weekend.
Stiffer HD valve springs are being ordered @ Techtonics Tuning for the 1.9L head.
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Hey all,
Doesn't a hydraulic head consume a significant percentage of power? As I recall, most folks interested in performance TD tuning go for a mechanical head.
But I've not been around for a while; has this idea been refuted?
Thanks,
-Josh
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Raised RPM (governor) = windage tray for this TD motor:
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/windage.jpg)
1.6L and 1.9L heads, the latter is disassembled:
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/heads.jpg)
New oil squirters:
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/oilsquirters.jpg)
The block:
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/block.jpg)
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/block2.jpg)
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/block4.jpg)
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/block5.jpg)
The block's already fully assembled now but I did not have the camera with me at the time. Raceware con rod bolt/nut kit included.
These cars are getting lonely:
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/cars1.jpg)
Dave's MK1 Caddy that will be PD130 TDI equipped:
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/caddy_newwheel.jpg)
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/caddy_newwheel2.jpg)
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/caddy_newwheel3.jpg)
The 1.9L 8v PD130 engine we picked up at Vancouver Intl. Airport (shipped from Europe):
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/pd130_1.jpg)
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/pd130_2.jpg)
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/pd130_3.jpg)
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/pd130_4.jpg)
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/pd130_5.jpg)
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/pd130_6.jpg)
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/pd130_7.jpg)
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/pd130_8.jpg)
These pictures are at least a few weeks old. I'll take more pictures of my TD in its current state when I can.
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Lookin' good mark! Can't wait to see how this turns out...
PS - You might be thinking about using those H-beam rods like from the 240 hp caddy about now, eh? :wink:
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Lookin' good mark! Can't wait to see how this turns out...
PS - You might be thinking about using those H-beam rods like from the 240 hp caddy about now, eh? :wink:
Thanks and yes I'm tempted to buy upgraded rods and have the pistons ceramic coated, and so on, but the budget and time constraints won't allow them. Anyway I'll be happy to have the peak power/weight ratio of a VR6 (approx. 140whp in my case).
It's said that OEM 1.6TD rods will break at above 290lb-ft. My OEM rods are shot-peened but I'm not exactly sure how much of a difference it makes. Raceware con rod bolt/nut kit included. If I can make 250lb-ft @ wheels @ 4,250 RPM, then 200whp is achieved and I'll be very surprised! Honestly though, as long as it's fun to drive and gets me somewhere, I'll be happy :)
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I have a custom air/water intercooler. It was originally for my 1.9L TDI engine that I recently sold:
(http://dieselinside.com/misc/ic1.jpg)
(http://dieselinside.com/misc/ic2.jpg)
(http://dieselinside.com/misc/ic3.jpg)
I may choose the air/water instead of the aforementioned air/air FMIC by Precision Turbo & Engines. The air/water intercooler has the following advantages:
1) Far easier IC plumbing from turbo to intake manifold, composed of two straight steel pipes and some silicone connectors. Less fabrication work means my Golf will be back on the road sooner.
2) Stealth factor.
3) Shorter plumbing and smaller intercooler core = significantly less internal volume = slightly faster pressure/boost response.
4) Possibly more efficient cooling than a FMIC for short power bursts, which is typical of most people's (incl mine) driving style. Includes 1/4 mile drag racing, which ice-loading may be useful.
If heat soak is ever an issue, i.e. during a long and hard highway race (I rarely do this), simply adding more water or installing a larger radiator will reduce that. In other words, this is a more scalable system than a FMIC.
Today I just rolled over 400,000km in my girlfriend's 1984 Volvo, which still runs great:
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/400k.jpg)
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Here's a rather crude photoshop of the charge air path:
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/sdi_aw.jpg)
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In case I forgot to mention, I also have the SDI intake manifold pictured above.
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/sdi.jpg)
A TDIClub.com member with the same SDI intake reported having a boost leak in the upper black portion (plastic) at 18 PSI. Note the blue sealant on the sides of the black intake in the previous post.
So this will likely be a temporary intake. Four mandrel bent metal runners & a pressure box (cylinder) may replace the plastic upper portion once I'm ready to turn up the boost. Velocity stacks in the pressure box would be nice, too.
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So, what exactly is the difference between the PD 100, PD 130, and the PD 150?
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Turbo, injectors, ECU and with the PD150 strenghtened rods and pistons.
Do I read correctly that you use the 1.9 head (from a AAZ engine or?) on the 1.6? I thought a 1.6 head has better proportioned exhasut valves compared to the 1.9?
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TDIClub.com member with the same SDI intake reported having a boost leak in the upper black portion (plastic) at 18 PSI. Note the blue sealant on the sides of the black intake in the previous post.
I helped finish the installation of Daves (TDImeister's) SDI manifold. The boost leak actually turned out to be at the junction between the aluminum part of the manifold and the head. The SDI manifold interfered slightly with the TDI exhaust manifold. Because of this the manifold was not pulled in tight against the head and there was a leak at the manifold gasket. The plastic part of the manifold did not actually leak. The blue silicone was put on there to assist in finding the original leak. With the manifold "clearanced" a bit the problem was solved.
I'm not sure how much boost the SDI manifold would withstand. Although it didn't leak in Daves car, having seen it, I don't think I would trust it with more than 25 psi. Good intercooling would likely be instrumental in helping the plastic manifold survive.
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Those long runners should help get a big turbo up and going sooner, but I don't think the lower portion of that manifold will fit in a 1.6lTD, with the stock turbo position being so high and close to the head. I hope you can make it work!
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Thanks for the details, QuickTD! Good to know.
Maarten, that is true.. stock for stock I'd likely save the money and keep the 1.6L head, but if modifying the head (including porting), I believe the AAZ version has better potential. The AAZ has larger valves too.
fspGTD: This is the GT20 turbo + modified ATP 8v exhaust manifold that's going on the TD:
(http://malone.vwmark.com/tdi/up_stg3/gt20_mid.jpg)
(http://malone.vwmark.com/tdi/up_stg3/gt20_manifold.jpg)
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/GT20compress.jpg)
It sits quite further back; I may or may not have to modify the firewall like I did to my 1989 Jetta coupe that had the 1.9L ALH TDI:
(http://malone.vwmark.com/gallery/part2_tdi_install/turbo_pass_side.jpg)
(http://malone.vwmark.com/tdi/part2_install/heat_firewall_inside.jpg)
(http://malone.vwmark.com/tdi/part2_install/firewall_silver_paint.jpg)
(http://malone.vwmark.com/tdi/part2_install/firewall_turbo.jpg)
(http://malone.vwmark.com/tdi/part2_install/firewall_painted_white.jpg)
I'll want enough clearance to place a heatshield to hide the hammer marks :P
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Why did you have to modify the firewall? Were you using the VNT-15 or something different? The reason I ask is because I'm doing the ALH swap into my 89 Golf and will be clocking the turbo up like yours was. I'll be using the stock turbo that comes with the engine (might update to the VNT-17 later).
I'm hoping to not have to do that to mine if possible.
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The pd 130 and 150 are the same except for ecu and turbo. I will might have to mount marks turbo upside down to clear the intake manifold. I am litereally int he middle of port matching and polishing the intake to the head, and the exhaust manifold as well. The actual port design on the 1.9 head is a lot better and the intake side is much larger. However the exhaust on the 1.9 almost seems smaller, by like a mm. But to match the exhaust maniold I'll be taking that much out anyways. The head will be going to the machine shop tomorrow to get the valve seats ground and a couple other goodies. Hopefully it wqill be back at the shop here by wednesday or so and than I can reassemble the head with the heavy duty valve springs and race ware headstuds and 1.9 metal head gasket. Than A custom grind a colt cams and I'll throw the pump on and all the other powdercoated goodies and it will be rockin. Especially witht he 4 puck cluytch and 6 pound flywheel!
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Why did you have to modify the firewall? Were you using the VNT-15 or something different? The reason I ask is because I'm doing the ALH swap into my 89 Golf and will be clocking the turbo up like yours was. I'll be using the stock turbo that comes with the engine (might update to the VNT-17 later).
I'm hoping to not have to do that to mine if possible.
As pictured, I was using the GT20 and ATP 8v turbo exhaust manifold, not the VNT-15.
The VNT turbo will clear the firewall no problem, however you may have a problem with it interefering the rear engine mount. This was a problem on a B3 Passat I've seen, a MK2 I'm sure, and perhaps a MK3. It clears a MK1 no problem because it has a side engine mount rather than a rear mount.
You can cut your rear motor mount to clear the VNT (and perhaps reweld it for strength) or just have a custom one made.
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The pd 130 and 150 are the same except for ecu and turbo. I will might have to mount marks turbo upside down to clear the intake manifold. I am litereally int he middle of port matching and polishing the intake to the head, and the exhaust manifold as well. The actual port design on the 1.9 head is a lot better and the intake side is much larger. However the exhaust on the 1.9 almost seems smaller, by like a mm. But to match the exhaust maniold I'll be taking that much out anyways. The head will be going to the machine shop tomorrow to get the valve seats ground and a couple other goodies. Hopefully it wqill be back at the shop here by wednesday or so and than I can reassemble the head with the heavy duty valve springs and race ware headstuds and 1.9 metal head gasket. Than A custom grind cam ****** and I'll throw the pump on and all the other powdercoated goodies and it will be rockin. Especially witht he 4 puck cluytch and 6 pound flywheel!
Yes, the PD130 block and head are virtually identical to the PD150. PD130 injectors are easily capable of 200-220HP but the nozzles can also be upgraded.
(For others to read:) The PD130 also has a smaller intercooler than the PD150. With a PD150 turbo + intercooler + ECU upgrade, the PD130 performs identically to a PD150.
Thanks for the update Dave!
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As pictured, I was using the GT20 and ATP 8v turbo exhaust manifold, not the VNT-15.
The VNT turbo will clear the firewall no problem, however you may have a problem with it interefering the rear engine mount. This was a problem on a B3 Passat I've seen, a MK2 I'm sure, and perhaps a MK3. It clears a MK1 no problem because it has a side engine mount rather than a rear mount.
You can cut your rear motor mount to clear the VNT (and perhaps reweld it for strength) or just have a custom one made
Yeah, I'm going to cut the mount and get someone to box it in again for strength. That's why I'm rotating the turbo to face up.
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I decided to use this PD130 TDI intake instead of the SDI version.
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/pd130_intake1.jpg)
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/pd130_intake2.jpg)
Oil pan that's powdercoated black:
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/oil_pan.jpg)
1st custom cam version:
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/cam_ver1.jpg)
That cam looks like it was used because it was recently tested in dvst8r's 1.6TD for around a week. Lower EGT and quicker turbo spool-up was reported. A second custom cam was already made and it performs even better. I'm going to run the first version for now so I can dyno it, measure EGTs, and then step to the next aggressive cam.
Windage tray installed:
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/windage_installed.jpg)
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/td_longblock_almost_complete2.jpg)
Credit goes to Passenger Performance for making this possible.
More pics coming soon.
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Looks nice in grey/red 8)
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We got the 1.9 TD valve last week but it didn't come with mounting hardware. For those who are not familiar with 1.9TD valve covers, a simple nut & flat washer will not hold it down. Dave made custom ones and took some time but it turned out real nice.
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/lego.jpg)
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I personally dislike ghetto-twisting wires together (w/ black electrical tape) because it looks messy and seems unreliable. So this time I went to an electronics shop and bought terminals and a bunch of ring connectors for clean connections. Keep in mind that I will have up to 10 gauges with roughly 5 12v power wires, 10 12v lighting wires, and 15 ground wires.
I was told these terminals (pictured) are all connected to each other but it turned out they weren't, so I created jumpers to connect the terminals.
So far I've readied 6 gauges for the main instrument cluster and I've already used up 50 ring connectors (pink, pictured). I need about 5-7 more connectors.
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/terminals_1.jpg)
Testing the gauge lighting that is turned on via the headlight switch (only six lights are connected in this picture)
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/terminals_2.jpg)
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Downpipe that's halfway done for the GT20 turbo. Following up is sandblasting and powdercoating.
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/gt_downpipe.jpg)
Engine bay in its early stage:
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/enginebay_early.jpg)
The intake tract is visible below the bottom left corner of the intercooler pipe. The conical air filter is pointed down & behind the passenger side turn signal in the bumper.
The aging coolant reservoir looks like a Brit's tooth so I may pick up a new one :D
The engine ran for the first time last Thursday and it sounded great. On Friday the car was driven on the street and after it returned to the garage we found oil leaking from the turbo oil return line. It'll be fixed tomorrow, Monday, and then hopefully the car will be back on the street for good.
In case anyone wondered if a 1.9TD head on a 1.6TD block will work; the answer is a YES.
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Here's a photo of the car when it first started up:
"Hi, my name is Erik and I'm a chronic smoker"
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/smokey.jpg)
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Here's a light, have another one :lol:
Why did you put a 1.9 head on a 1.6? From the things I've read on this forum I thought the ports on a 1.6head are larger :?
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Just the opposet is true! The exhaust ports and valves are the same size, but the intake valves and ports are bigger and have a much better shape. This complete with extensive head port work and manifold modification, including a pd 130 intake couples for some serious airflow!
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Although some people noted that the 1.6 head has better designed exhaust ports, it doesn't really matter in this case because the 1.9 head is ported :D the 1.9 head's larger intake valves also made it more attractive.
I finished the custom instrument cluster yesterday:
(http://dieselinside.com/1.6td/custom_gauge_cluster.jpg)
It looks much sexier in person, especially with lighting in the dark :eek: The lighting colour is OEM-style radioactive green, which I like. That's a MK1 leather-wrapped steering wheel by the way. If anyone has a "turbo diesel" insert for this style steering wheel, let me know.
I'm thinking of getting a GPS device to use as a speedometer and odometer. It's far more accurate than a factory in-car speedo & odo. I also won't have to worry about finding a spot to embed a 3" speedo gauge (I couldn't find a 2 1/6" gauge with speedo and odo that I could install in my radio delete panel, but then again that panel is already going to be full).
(http://dieselinside.com/1.6td/gps.jpg)
Something like the above. If the device has a 'permanent' mileage log (999,999km limit) and it isn't insanely expensive, then I'm sold.
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It's really coming along... great looking dash and thanks for the updates!
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Can you post more detailed pics of the 130PD intakemanifold on the engine?
That could be a nice upgrade for my 1.9 8 :)
The dash looks sweet 8) Where do you rung the tach off?
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Thanks for the comments. :)
Maarten, a PD130 intake from a local yard may cost around $100 to $150 USD, or less. The PD150 version is similar but the inlet is facing the opposite direction. I'll take close-up pics of the PD130 intake installed on the engine, perhaps tomorrow evening (Thursday PST).
The aftermarket tachometer is connected to this:
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/dakota.jpg)
Click here for product page. (http://www.dakotadigital.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=128/category_id=-1/home_id=-1/mode=prod/prd128.htm)
That Dakota device is wired to the factory "W" terminal on the diesel alternator. It's pretty simple to install but I haven't gotten to the RPM calibration part yet.
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Quick summary: The cylinder compression was mid 300 PSI a few days ago. Dave put together a leakdown tester and pinpointed the compression problem - it was the exhaust valves. The 1st prototype camshaft was removed and then the stock cam was reinstalled. That seemed to help. Also after a couple near-WOT runs on the street the engine idled & performed better due to piston rings seating (more compression). The engine still barely has 20km on it but we may do a few hours of driving tomorrow after we sort out a few other things, mainly the electricals.
The leakdown tester, a very handy tool:
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/leakdown.jpg)
Maarten, the close-up pics of the PD130 intake didn't turn out as good as I hoped, but here they are:
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/pd130_9.jpg)
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/pd130_11.jpg)
Top is PD130 intake bolted on, and bottom is the ATP 8v turbo exhaust manifold. There are no clearance issues between the two.
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/pd130_12.jpg)
^ Just imagine a better designed 1.6TD intake manifold.
Clearer engine bay pic:
(http://www.dieselinside.com/1.6td/enginebay1.jpg)
I'll report again during or after engine break-in period :)
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I like things that work and look nice, if I can find a manifold I'm going to get it polished 8)
On the manifold is a flange, maybe the other side can be used to bolt the IC plumning onto that or is that plastic?
Are your still running the stock LDA pin/lid?
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Malone,
How is the Garrett GT20 performing ? I bought one off a Mercedes C220, the A/R ratio of the compressor housing is 0.51 and the turbine is 0.38, how does this compare with yours ?
I got mine at a very good price, and although it isnt a simple bolt on, I bought it cause it looks like I could machine the turbine housing to match a VW manifold.
How did you attach your GT20 ? Did it have the 3 triangular bolt pattern ?
Any problems with surge ?
Any info would be much appreciated. I have a TDi drivetrian I would like to use soon, for either a Mk2 or another Mk3, was thinking of using the turbo for it.
DM
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On the manifold is a flange, maybe the other side can be used to bolt the IC plumning onto that or is that plastic?
Are your still running the stock LDA pin/lid?
Sorry I don't understand your first question. As for your other question, the LDA pin/lid is not stock. The pump is a 1.6TD modified by Giles @ Superior Fuel Injection.
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Malone,
How is the Garrett GT20 performing ? I bought one off a Mercedes C220, the A/R ratio of the compressor housing is 0.51 and the turbine is 0.38, how does this compare with yours ?
I got mine at a very good price, and although it isnt a simple bolt on, I bought it cause it looks like I could machine the turbine housing to match a VW manifold.
How did you attach your GT20 ? Did it have the 3 triangular bolt pattern ?
Any problems with surge ?
Any info would be much appreciated. I have a TDi drivetrian I would like to use soon, for either a Mk2 or another Mk3, was thinking of using the turbo for it.
DM
My GT20's compressor housing is 55 trim, 0.53 A/R. I forgot about the turbine side. The turbo has a 4 rectangular bolt pattern:
(http://malone.vwmark.com/gallery/part2_tdi_install/turbo_pass_side.jpg)
The exhaust manifold is ATP brand intended for 8v gas engines. It has a flange welded onto it to fit the GT series turbos, but I'm concerned that the welds may crack. I wouldn't get a manifold like this again.
It's too early to say if there's surge or how well it performs. I'll report after some more driving.
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On the manifold is a flange, maybe the other side can be used to bolt the IC plumning onto that or is that plastic?
Are your still running the stock LDA pin/lid?
Sorry I don't understand your first question. As for your other question, the LDA pin/lid is not stock. The pump is a 1.6TD modified by Giles @ Superior Fuel Injection.
On the intake manifold there is a 3 bolt plate, you have made your own adapter to the pipe connecting you IC.. my question was if the part that is originally on the 130pd on that 3 bolt flange is aluminium or plastic?
Did you replace the pumpsupport for a 1.6TD support to fit the 1.6 pump? I tried my GTD pump but it was different from my 1.9 pump, the nose was shorter so the wheels didn't align anymore:
(http://www.morninglight.nl/a3/neus.jpg)
1.9 pump is on the left
What number LDA pin do you have under the lid?
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On the intake manifold there is a 3 bolt plate, you have made your own adapter to the pipe connecting you IC.. my question was if the part that is originally on the 130pd on that 3 bolt flange is aluminium or plastic?
When we imported the PD130 engine it did not come with whatever's attached to the intake manifold, so unfortunately I do not have the answer to your question. The custom adapter on my intake manifold is (mild?) steel but an aluminum version will be made in the future.
Did you replace the pumpsupport for a 1.6TD support to fit the 1.6 pump? I tried my GTD pump but it was different from my 1.9 pump, the nose was shorter so the wheels didn't align anymore:
Although I have a 1.9 head, I still have the 1.6 block so there were no problems mounting the 1.6 pump using original mounting components.
What number LDA pin do you have under the lid?
The LDA pin # is irrelevant (I haven't checked anyway) because the pin was ground for a more aggressive taper. Take any pin you have and then grind in a deeper taper using a dremel. We've done this long before Giles rebuilt my pump so it isn't a secret.
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The boost pin is a #51 but as malone stated its totally irrelivent. The thing originally bolted to the manifold is the egr. I took it off as soon as I bought the engine.
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The thing originally bolted to the manifold is the egr.
Ah, I remember that now :) Then to answer Maarten's question the EGR is definitely not plastic. I can't recall if it's aluminum though, I doubt it is.
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Is aluminum
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Ah, I remember that now :) Then to answer Maarten's question the EGR is definitely not plastic. I can't recall if it's aluminum though, I doubt it is.
it is aluminium on my Audi A3 TDI:
Before and after pic of cleaning and disabling the EGR:
http://www.morninglight.nl/a3/egr4.jpg
http://www.morninglight.nl/a3/egr5.jpg
:!:
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Before and after pic of cleaning and disabling the EGR:
http://www.morninglight.nl/a3/egr4.jpg
http://www.morninglight.nl/a3/egr5.jpg
:!:
Yeah that's pretty nasty. Our TDIs, most particularly the ALH, have the same problem.
935racer, check your Hotmail email.
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Have you tried those custom cams yet? Do you have any specs?
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Have you tried those custom cams yet? Do you have any specs?
I'm currently running the stock cam. I had the 1st prototype cam in but it caused compression issues at idle. Another local 1.6TD is running the 2nd prototype cam with great results and we will likely try that one or whatever new custom cam comes up.
Because of an agreement made I can't disclose specs of the custom cams. I however will report performance and EGT differences. I think starting with the stock cam as a baseline is a good idea. I'd say it'll be around 4 weeks from now before I'll have a report on a custom cam with good driving time and also dyno charts to back claims up. No other mods will be done (e.g. fueling or boost) between dynos for the stock cam and the custom cam. Engine oil type will remain the same as well. I would prefer to have dynos be no more than a few days apart between cams.
I'm also thinking of taking a video of the TD in action with the stock cam, followed by installing another cam and then taking another video, all in the same day. The video(s) will focus on my gauge cluster with EGT, boost, and RPM included, and maybe the rear of my car for comparing exhaust smoke.
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Have you tried those custom cams yet? Do you have any specs?
Yes we have two versions of the custom cams on trial right now, we have rejected the first version and are likely making the second version our "Stage 1 cam". We also will have a third version for trial by the end of the week. As far as numbers the first version that we rejected had the 1.9TD lift and duration on the 1.6TD lobe seperation, I am sorry but I am not a cam guru, and I don't know what those real world numbers are, but I am sure that someone on this board does. The second version has more lift and duration then the first with similar lobe spacing, again how much I am uncertain.
The cam company that we are working with keeps all of the numbers and modifies them based on our testing imput. I have no need for the cam numbers as they mean nothing to me. As long as it does somthing better then stock I am happy.
We should have a dyno up in the next few days of an NA to turbo conversion, running stock boost approx 10psi. With the gov mod, a FMIC, and our stage 1 cam. If all goes well with this dyno and the 3rd trial version of our cam, you should see this "stage 1 cam" up forsale on our website in the next week or so.
At which point anybody with the tools can buy one and mesure it and post the numbers if they wish. :wink:
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Ok, so Itīs a secret :) I`ll have to find a cam grinder here from Finland who understands of diesel cams. I believe that there isnīt that much knowledge about diesel hp cams.
I have about half dozen extra stock cams, so I could do some testing too :) if I find a decent grinder.
BTW Is the NA cam same as TD cam?
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No the NA has different specs then a TD from what I understand, at least thats what my cam guy tells me :?: Also a good cam grinder should be able to convert solid lifter cams to work in hyd heads, which obviously have different specs. From what I understand every iteration of the vw diesel got a different cam 1.5, 1.6 solid, 1.6td solid, 1.6 hyd, 1.6td hyd, 1.9idi, 1.9tdi ect...
As far is it being a secret it will only be that way until someone buys one and measures it. I don't honestly know or care, what I know at this point is that it spools way quicker, like 500rpm's sooner and as such the egt's are slower to build and stabilze at a lower final temp obviously that temp is dependent on the car's setup and not on the cam, finally it seams to hold power better into the upper revs, though this data is still being collected. If someone wants to buy one and then posts up the measurements I am fine with that. :wink:
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my apologies to bring back such an old topic, first off...
However, I think I've done the same as malone to my 1.9TD... A little bit of 170 km/h cruising + 24 pounds of boost = rawr.
I haven't taken the head off yet, but I suspect low compression... Not as bad as malone's 1.6, I hope, but still too low to be reliable. I did, however, drive the car home from 100 km's away, after it started showing signs of unhappiness.
I'm thinking rebuild the bottom end, if the cylinders aren't too damaged. But, worst case scenario, what other options do I have, for say, a PD swap? How much are those running these days?
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You'e looking at around $2500 US for the engine most likely, www.carpart.com is a good place to look, there's a selection at least.
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i really don't understand why this happens?? i can't even count howmany times ive run my car at a gps verified 57meters per second(205km/h) at 35plus psi and the only thing that eventually failed was my turbo??? my engine is almost at 500k and still has 430psi compression. am i just running enough boost to keep my egts down? i don't have a guage so i have no idea what kinda temps im running at that speed.
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my apologies to bring back such an old topic, first off...
However, I think I've done the same as malone to my 1.9TD... A little bit of 170 km/h cruising + 24 pounds of boost = rawr.
I haven't taken the head off yet, but I suspect low compression... Not as bad as malone's 1.6, I hope, but still too low to be reliable. I did, however, drive the car home from 100 km's away, after it started showing signs of unhappiness.
I'm thinking rebuild the bottom end, if the cylinders aren't too damaged. But, worst case scenario, what other options do I have, for say, a PD swap? How much are those running these days?
PD swap... if you're doing the 'econo' swap then you're easily looking at $3500. but don't stop there, as the 020 tranny isn't doing much for the motor.. you will want to get the proper tranny as well.
you don't even want to know what i'm shelling out for my PD swap... :oops: