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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: oldskool rich on March 21, 2008, 06:36:33 pm
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i hav an AAZ with 11mm pump piston ect, ive spoke to alot of people and no one can giv me a straight answer
ive established that merc nozzles are best however some of the big power AAZs that ive seen are running 1.6 injectors
so i thort id coppy this trend, however im not conviced that they produce any more power :?
the 1.6 injectors are (if im not mistaken) designed to open at a lower pressure
the 1.9s have two springs, im not quite sure what for?
there must be a reason
i just wana know once and for all which one is better?
and if anyone knows why two springs?
also are there any other injectors available that will do an even better job?
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Bosio :).
www.kermatdi.com
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Soon I will be putting Mercedes 300D nozzles in my Jetta...
As for the 2 springs in the injector, it is designed to give the engine a smoother run; in that the weaker spring will open the nozzle early, allowing a little fuel to spray; then as the pressure rises even more the stiffer spring allows the injector to spray alot, then as the pressure drops off the stiffer spring closes and the weaker spring allows the injector to spray a little bit more. the result is a quieter engine.
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Some where in here there is a discussion about the 1.6 vs the 1.9 injectors and all the differences. I just looked for a bit but could not find it. Just saw it yesterday to damn it! Or if you REALLY want to go big, do a search for 8S2.
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Some where in here there is a discussion about the 1.6 vs the 1.9 injectors and all the differences. I just looked for a bit but could not find it. Just saw it yesterday to damn it! Or if you REALLY want to go big, do a search for 8S2.
had a look, seems like 8S2 nozzles realy arnt ment for these engines as they deliver 3 times more fuel, maybe a good upgrade for a tractor though
sum people say they lost 10 bhp by using gtd injectors, i feel the same and so im going back to standard but keeping the merc nozzles :roll:
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Hey bro stick a set of bosch pug 1.9 td injectors in your wild wagon, made a difrance to my 1.6 td golf would pull 125 mph , on a dirt track road, but my wheels did not stick out past the arches , :lol: probly cut 15mph of for that , get some 145 80 13 on some 4j rims :lol:
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Hey bro stick a set of bosch pug 1.9 td injectors in your wild wagon, made a difrance to my 1.6 td golf would pull 125 mph , on a dirt track road, but my wheels did not stick out past the arches , :lol: probly cut 15mph of for that , get some 145 80 13 on some 4j rims :lol:
do you mean the 175bar injectors?
there are 2 difrent injectors, the one are 155 and the other something like 175bar.
i think you will need stronger anti-return springs as well if you raise the pressure.
Greetz, Benjamin
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the butt dyno seems to tell me that i've lost about 10 hp going from GTD's back to regular TD's.
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do you mean the 175bar injectors?
there are 2 difrent injectors, the one are 155 and the other something like 175bar.
i think you will need stronger anti-return springs as well if you raise the pressure.
Greetz, Benjamin
I didn't put stronger anti-return springs on when I changed to TDI injectors at 220 bar. Is that something that has to be done?
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the butt dyno seems to tell me that i've lost about 10 hp going from GTD's back to regular TD's.
hang on a sec, i thort that GTDs wer the same as 1.6s
im using injectors off an old solid lifter n/a 1.6
i saw audi80 running them in that 225hp rocco, i assumed that there was a reason behind it.
sounds like i maybe loosing upto 20hp by using these :oops:
or am i understanding whats been said properly?
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GTD nozzles are from the 1.6td with a standard intercooler (engine code SB and i think RA), the 80hp ones. Built from 90-92... The ones you have are from an older model 1.6 :)
grts Ronald
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im using injectors off an old solid lifter n/a 1.6
i saw audi80 running them in that 225hp rocco, i assumed that there was a reason behind it.
No reason for these, just stock ones. I still donīt believe there is much differences in power, I donīt believe in butt dynos :)
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Pug 1,9TD Nozzles are DN0SD299(C) type,
they are a little bigger than the most common 1,9TD VW-type DN0SD297
i would only take the 299-Type for racing or extreme performance due to hard combustion-sound.
the original 297's give good cold-start (SVO/WVO-Drivers 1. choice) and
a smoother (and better) combustion, caused by the way the needle is
grinded to make a pre-injection. The *308, *294, *273 types will also do fine.
bigger Nozzles are not really needed, because they flow much more than DI-Types.
i am running 297's adjusted to pop at 175 Bar in my Audi..runs great :)
so why go for Mercedes-Nozzles?
EDIT: the most common type for the 1,6 (N/A) or turbo was *293.. GTD or whatever (JR, RA, SB, JX etc.) they work, but not as good as the more modern types listed above.
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what do you say about dn0sd 261?
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It seems to me that getting your pump tuned is a better upgrade than changing injectors/nozzles. :?:
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It seems to me that getting your pump tuned is a better upgrade than changing injectors/nozzles. :?:
thats the point! took me more than 5 hours to get a usable adjustment..
what do you say about dn0sd 261?
261 and 265 are equal to the 297 and similar but for mercedes..
The question is:
are nozzles for prechamber-engines with row-pumps good for
whirl-chamber-engines with distributor-pumps?
if you mount stock merc. injectors (pops at 115Bar) and do no adjustment
on the pump, the injected volume will increase, because the nozzles opens earlier.
->looking at it this way, the engine will perform better, but atomisation will be worse.
Thats no problem in an mercedes, the precamber is built to compensate.
The VW-turbo-nozzles pop at 155 Bar.. good atomisation is required for fast combustion.
The Injection-time is shorter, burning is finished earlier:
results in better performance, thats also what a bigger plunger makes, but without
the disadvantages of poorer atomisation by lowering pop-pressure.
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im using injectors off an old solid lifter n/a 1.6
i saw audi80 running them in that 225hp rocco, i assumed that there was a reason behind it.
No reason for these, just stock ones. I still donīt believe there is much differences in power, I donīt believe in butt dynos :)
first of all, much respect to you, i love your work, its what got me into diesels.
if different injectors arent a big deal, what is? where do you get all your power? is it just the VNT? my pump is tuned quite a lot and it hasnt made as much different as i thort it would, any suggestions? :roll:
if i cant crack it im gona get a supercharger too, it just takes so long to build boost with a T3
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i think his intake, big turbo, big boost, intercooler, big exhaust, and injection pump pump are where the power comes from.
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It seems to me that getting your pump tuned is a better upgrade than changing injectors/nozzles. :?:
1000X... imho the nozzles, assuming they are fresh and well-calibrated, are virtually insignificant in terms of performance upgrade potential for us daily drivers.
There's tons you can do with a stock VW in terms of better fueling, breathing, and charge cooling.... huge payback compared to fooling around with nozzle differences only visible under a scanning electron microscope !! ;-)
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first of all, much respect to you, i love your work, its what got me into diesels.
if different injectors arent a big deal, what is? where do you get all your power? is it just the VNT? my pump is tuned quite a lot and it hasnt made as much different as i thort it would, any suggestions? :roll:
i think his intake, big turbo, big boost, intercooler, big exhaust, and injection pump are where the power comes from.
Fuel pump is most important. Itīs the pump that delivers fuel, not injectors :) With those mods above, you can get easily up to 180hp from otherwise stock 1,6 engine.
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first of all, much respect to you, i love your work, its what got me into diesels.
if different injectors arent a big deal, what is? where do you get all your power? is it just the VNT? my pump is tuned quite a lot and it hasnt made as much different as i thort it would, any suggestions? :roll:
i think his intake, big turbo, big boost, intercooler, big exhaust, and injection pump are where the power comes from.
Fuel pump is most important. Itīs the pump that delivers fuel, not injectors :) With those mods above, you can get easily up to 180hp from otherwise stock 1,6 engine.
my pump has 11mm pump piston, gov mod, gtd boost pin, i hav a short stainless 2.5" straight through exhaust, t3 with closed waste gate, landrover intercooler, maybe im just being fussy, i just expected a little more
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How much hpīs do you have now? Stock 1,6 T3 is small, have you measured your exhasut manifold pressures?
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tbh im having clutch trouble so its hard to say, i recon 150 at the moment
exhaust manifold pressure? what will that tell me?
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How much hpīs do you have now? Stock 1,6 T3 is small, have you measured your exhasut manifold pressures?
yea i sorta gotta call that out 180hp 1.6??
hmm when my gtech is telling my 140 hp on my tdi-m,and im knocking on the door of 13 second 1/4's
12mm pump,and race 520 nozzles,mucho boost too(30+psi)
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tbh im having clutch trouble so its hard to say, i recon 150 at the moment
exhaust manifold pressure? what will that tell me?
my old1.6td made a centerforce dualfriction clutch slip...........
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EMP shouldnīt be much higher than boost, otherwise your turbo is choking the engine. And before anyone says, yes it is possible. 150hp from stock t3 is already a lot IMO.
Hillfolkīr: I always speak crank hpīs, becouse thatīs what we measure in dynoīs here. Iīve once used gtech for my Audi. It showed 143hp, when dyno told 151whp and 173 crank hp. Low 14īs is no problem with 150whp in light car like yours.
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wow i didnt think it was that fast.
will be trying it down the strip soon, the main thing holding me back is my top end. the tdi gear box with 13" wheels wont let me do over a hundred :cry: