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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: bigbillyboy on March 16, 2008, 10:30:14 pm

Title: how far is too far for advanced timing?
Post by: bigbillyboy on March 16, 2008, 10:30:14 pm

What are the consequences of timing advanced too far?  At what point will it stop running?

also, over what range can you adjust the pump without having to move the belt a tooth.  .20mm?  

I finally got the D24 running nice, but according to my gauge, I'm at like 1.20 mm advanced!?!  The engine is noisier, but doesn't sound bad.  Smoke is finally gone, and it idles real smooth.

This was adjusted with the cold start in the proper position

Title: how far is too far for advanced timing?
Post by: Benjamin on March 17, 2008, 01:47:25 am

to early injection leads to bend rods

you can hear it when its to early, i think a static from 1,20mm is pretty early, alltough its not that simple to see .10mm difrence on the gauge, you need to hear, if its a real hard noice i should set it later, if the sounds look pretty good you probably measured wrong.

how does it sounds when you let it drive free and you turn on to 2000 or 3000rpm?

Greetz, Benjamin

Title: how far is too far for advanced timing?
Post by: bigbillyboy on March 17, 2008, 08:52:24 am

It actually sounds pretty good.  I've never heard a 1.6 td running before, all my experience is with my 85 mercedes 300d turbo.  The miss and the smoke are gone, it runs pretty smooth, and still starts easy.  I may have misread the gauge when timing the motor.  I have to convert from english (.035 inches) to metric, since I don't have a metric dial gauge.  

I spent some time on you tube and I think my engine sounds like some of the ones I have found in videos.  Do you guys have any good links for videos of healthy running 1.6 tds?

I have to re-torque the headbolts tonight, as I just rebuilt the entire engine and finally got it to run well enough to get it up to operating temperature.


thanks

Title: how far is too far for advanced timing?
Post by: jimfoo on March 17, 2008, 08:58:30 am

If it's set at .035", you can still advance it more.  .040"=1.01mm

Title: how far is too far for advanced timing?
Post by: bigbillyboy on March 17, 2008, 12:27:26 pm

When it is advanced too far, is it just really noisy?  Are there any other indications that the timing is advanced too far?  I'm not sure that i'm reading the dial indicator correctly as it is in inches and the timing needs to be in mm.  I was shooting for .035 and .040 advanced on my gauge, but it came out at like .050, which should be way to advanced, but the engine sounds and runs excellent.

jason

Title: how far is too far for advanced timing?
Post by: Benjamin on March 17, 2008, 02:49:36 pm

to late start sounds realy soft, alltough dont have much experience, with a good timing you do hear the dieselknock, when you go to early this dieselknock becomes a hard dieselknock, sounds like metal, open the hoot and try at difrent rpm

offcorse its practical if you heard some diesels before.

Greetz, Benjamin

Title: how far is too far for advanced timing?
Post by: rallydiesel on March 17, 2008, 02:52:33 pm

It will be a very loud sound like small rocks being shaken vigorously in a metal pail.

Title: how far is too far for advanced timing?
Post by: bigbillyboy on March 17, 2008, 11:06:43 pm

mine sounds like a healthy diesel, not bad.  this is how it sounds:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnYLd7b_xDU

Title: how far is too far for advanced timing?
Post by: coke on March 20, 2008, 11:35:30 am

I have the same problem; advanced to .037 inches per Giles recommendation it runs like crap and the mileage sucks. He recommended .95mm which I converted to .037 inches but like I said, ran like crap.
, no power, and mileage stunk. Its probably up around where yours is reading now, .050 or something, and runs beautiful

Title: how far is too far for advanced timing?
Post by: rallydiesel on March 20, 2008, 12:11:12 pm

Your flywheel timing mark might not be accurate. Before installing a new pressure plate my car ran great at 1.00mm. With the new clutch, it ran like crap at 1.00mm. I checked out my TDC with a dial gauge and found the new pressure plate moved the TDC mark over a bit. Strange but true. Just something to keep in mind if your car runs better way advanced and everything else (injector pop pressures, pump set up right, etc.) checks out normal.

Title: how far is too far for advanced timing?
Post by: Vincent Waldon on March 20, 2008, 12:30:05 pm

Another variable to keep in mind is that we're talking about static timing, which does not account for variables like pump wear, differences in injector break pressure, etc.

So, a great starting point, but Your Mileage May Vary for sure.